ILX sales are below Acura projections

[Chris Stack]

It is on paper, but at least here in north america they are seen as premium as acura, and in some cases more premium if you look at the touareg, which is more upscale than any of that rx, mdx, jx, mkx, srx crap.

False. Maybe the part about the Twatrag, but in general, no, VW is about as premium as Honda and Nissan.

[Aw614]

It is on paper, but at least here in north america they are seen as premium as acura, and in some cases more premium if you look at the touareg, which is more upscale than any of that rx, mdx, jx, mkx, srx crap.

In North America vw still has the image of the original beetle...

[Chris Stack]

False. Maybe the part about the Twatrag, but in general, no, VW is about as premium as Honda and Nissan.

And now that I read your post closer, no, the Twatrag is NOT more prestigious than the Lexus RX, the official car of upper crust MiLFs everywhere.

[vrsexxy_GTI]

And now that I read your post closer, no, the Twatrag is NOT more prestigious than the Lexus RX, the official car of upper crust MiLFs everywhere.

To the educated car buyer, the Touareg is more prestigious than a jacked up camry wagon.

[Chris Stack]

To the educated car buyer, the Touareg is more prestigious than a jacked up camry wagon.

Based on what? I suppose the fact that you have to buy a new one every other year because your previous one grenades does make it more expensive, and thus fancy?

[P-Body]

Based on what? I suppose the fact that you have to buy a new one every other year because your previous one grenades does make it more expensive, and thus fancy?

This thread is retarded. There is absolutely no reason to argue with people when their point is that the ILX isn't a good value compared to loaded normal compact cars, missing the entire issue that NONE of the entry level luxury cars are good value...period.

Then there are the obvious trolls like our recently returned friend from Montreal, who loved his Saab so much that he sold it in order to move to a Jetta, which is a premium vehicle in his mind, but in its most recent generation was cost cut to shreds.

In other words - VW good, everyone else bad.

[vrsexxy_GTI]

Based on what? I suppose the fact that you have to buy a new one every other year because your previous one grenades does make it more expensive, and thus fancy?

Based on superior engineering, ride/handling, interior, off road capability. I've driven an Rx, it was just as i expected, a raised camry! Just a quiet, boring car that feels like a minivan! Try driving a Touareg in comparison and you'll see what i mean about superior engineering. If i pay big money for a car, i don't want a camry based van and i don't care about what features and crap it comes with, i want to put my money on sophisticated engineering, and to me that means prestige.

[P-Body]

Based on superior engineering, ride/handling, interior, off road capability. I've driven an Rx, it was just as i expected, a raised camry! Just a quiet, boring car that feels like a minivan! Try driving a Touareg in comparison and you'll see what i mean about superior engineering. If i pay big money for a car, i don't want a camry based van and i don't care about what features and crap it comes with, i want to put my money on sophisticated engineering, and to me that means prestige.

Please, with detailed examples, compare and contrast the sophisticated engineering of the Touareg versus that of the Lexus RX.

[Aw614]

Based on superior engineering, ride/handling, interior, off road capability. I've driven an Rx, it was just as i expected, a raised camry! Just a quiet, boring car that feels like a minivan! Try driving a Touareg in comparison and you'll see what i mean about superior engineering. If i pay big money for a car, i don't want a camry based van and i don't care about what features and crap it comes with, i want to put my money on sophisticated engineering, and to me that means prestige.

Shouldn't you compare the touareg with a land cruiser and in that case the reputation of the land cruiser wins out

[dcmix5]

Please, with detailed examples, compare and contrast the sophisticated engineering of the Touareg versus that of the Lexus RX.

[Chris Stack]

Please, with detailed examples, compare and contrast the sophisticated engineering of the Touareg versus that of the Lexus RX.

It takes planning to make the disintegrate so consistently.

[MK5golf]

I agree with VR in saying the Touareg is a "better" (NOT MORE RELIABLE) car than the "jacked up Camry" however I think almost everyone would universally agree that the RX has a greater image of "Luxury" associated with it than the Touareg. I have had a lot of experience with both cars, and I think the Touareg has more of a premium "feel" if that makes any sense... but I sure as hell am never going to buy one!
And in Canada, in terms of perceived Luxury, Lexus trumps VW by a LONGSHOT. Im 100% sure this is the case in the states as well. Lexus is arguably the only Japanese dedicated luxury brand that is up there with the Germans. Im sure people cross shop their S class with an LS, or at least consider it.

ILX still sucks :p

[2.0T_Convert]

To the educated car buyer, the Touareg is more prestigious than a jacked up camry wagon.

You mean self important egotistical douchnozzles?

[vrsexxy_GTI]

Just drive both and you'll see. That's it.

[2.0T_Convert]

Just drive both and you'll see. That's it.

Drive what?

We have had the RX in the family before and there was nothing wrong with it. It properly doesn't pretend to be a sports car.

[Chris Stack]

You mean self important egotistical douchnozzles?

Remember, we're talking about someone who considers a dowdy miniature breadvan "sexy."

[P-Body]

Just drive both and you'll see. That's it.

As I thought.

[2.0T_Convert]

As I thought.

And if you can't tell then are you are not an educated douchnozzle. Because any real educated douchnozzle would prefer the German car.

[P-Body]

And if you can't tell then are you are not an educated douchnozzle. Because any real educated douchnozzle would prefer the German car.

Don't forget, I don't have imperial blood either.

[2.0T_Convert]

Don't forget, I don't have imperial blood either.

Blood of the aristocrats?

Aw crap I'd better go buy a Corolla then because hard plastic and wide panel gaps are all I can comprehend.

[10minutes]

Since when has VW become premium brand?

As for the ILX, I can see why some "young professionals" may show interest as it offers afforable entry level luxury (including Acura brand name). I'm sure it's pretty slow in automatic, but their target buyers probably don't care. 6MT is intreguing though as it reminds me of the first gen 6MT TSX, but some people say TSX drives sportier. Anyways, the sales number of ILX is probably hurt because of its own competitor, TSX.

[C4 A6]

Since when has VW become premium brand?

Since they started using leather instead of plastic

[Charlie84]

And now that I read your post closer, no, the Twatrag is NOT more prestigious than the Lexus RX, the official car of upper crust MiLFs everywhere.

To the educated car buyer, the Touareg is more prestigious than a jacked up camry wagon.

In any affluent community where the homes are older than the 1960's-70's, a Touareg would be preferred. The difference is probably more of a cultural distinction than a purely economic one.

Based on what? I suppose the fact that you have to buy a new one every other year because your previous one grenades does make it more expensive, and thus fancy?

Based on the fact that it shares its chassis and much of its engineering with a f---ing Porsche.

Drive what?

We have had the RX in the family before and there was nothing wrong with it. It properly doesn't pretend to be a sports car.

My family's old MDX was a perfectly good product. But nobody will ever miss that car. Boring design, drove like a minivan, fake wood, bad leather/vinyl mix, no xenons. At well over $40K, it will still a fake luxury vehicle. It wasn't even that reliable --there were problems with the AWD, clunky shifts and it needed a replacement steering rack. An X5 at the time would have driven circles around it and done so with flair (at the usual cost of higher MSRP and more frequent maintenance).

"Smart luxury" = fake luxury.

Since when has VW become premium brand?

Since around 2000, when Ferdinand Piech decided to take VW in an upmarket direction to make it a premium brand. They created the Phaeton and Touareg and put interiors into Golfs, Jettas, and Passats that put some BMWs at the time to shame. Eventually, they couldn't compete on volume anymore outside of Europe, necessitating the much-derided cost-cutting to move downmarket in order to compete with Toyota, Ford, etc, in North America.

[clutchrider]

Still, I think Acura v. Audi is a more solid comparison than Acura v. VW. Outliers like the Phaeton and Eos notwithstanding, which do speak to a greater amount of risk-taking on VW's part.

Sorry but if I was shopping Audi, even and A4. I'd be shopping BMW, MB, and even Lexus. I won't say Infiniti since I am not a fan, but in no way do I hold Acura equal to those marks.

Like I said I gave up on Acura being inspiring years ago when they failed to offer the 2.4T in anything exciting, failed to keep the RSX alive, failed to do anything meaningful to the Acura RL, and failed the beak design which still to this day was only duct taped to be bearable and not fixed.

[C4 A6]

"Smart luxury" = fake luxury.



Since around 2000, when Ferdinand Piech decided to take VW in an upmarket direction to make it a premium brand. They created the Phaeton and Touareg and put interiors into Golfs, Jettas, and Passats that put some BMWs at the time to shame. Eventually, they couldn't compete on volume anymore outside of Europe, necessitating the much-derided cost-cutting to move downmarket in order to compete with Toyota, Ford, etc, in North America.

1: False. Fake luxury (i.e. VW) = fake luxury.
2: Keep stroking your leather wrapped dash.

[Ross1013]

acura's most recent risk then would be the 1st gen RDX with its car like ride and turbo (very german yes?). Say what you will but there's a reason that acura owners own their cars for a long time whereas I constantly see, just for example zhps/gtis/GLIs with 49k for sale and then the 2nd and subsequent owners putting them up for sale again every 20k miles or so. Its really not an accident.

Agreed. Yes, turbo RSX was a risk. They were aiming at single dudes w/active lifestyles and decent salaries. I'm not sure the RDX was the car for that, but it's a great car in its own right. My wife loves them and it will probably be her next car.

I think this is right on. Acura = Audi in the Honda product planner's minds (only... and delusionally). Acura brings reliability, lower running costs, historically stronger resale value (not recently), and many of the same feature sets (AWD, sticks, sport-tuned suspensions). But what they are missing, they miss big, especially style, interior quality, winning racing heritage/technical credibility, innovation.

Uh...

Style is subjective. Interior quality is less so. I think you should look at the modern crop of Acuras, compare them to their Japanese competition, and then to their German aspirants. I think it'll be obvious that they are ahead of Lexus and Infiniti, and in the mix with Ze Germans. In terms of storage and ergos I think they are probably the best.

As far as winning racing heritage...when I look at Acuras, I see Honda. And when I see Honda, I see F1, CART, MotoGP. I'm not going to make an argument for one company's motorsport accomplishments over another (not in this thread) but Honda is up there.

Acura interiors are getting better, but they still cheap out in various places, like making the driver's seat fully adjustable, but not the passenger's. And the scattering of a zillion buttons makes for busy dashboards, with little driver logic to them.

IMO, Acura's interiors are better laid-out than almost any other. The ease of use of their infotainment stuff is right up there in the top 3 or 4 (BMW, Infiniti being 2 others). If I hadn't spent time in the newer stuff (i.e. 2009+) I would agree with you.

To me "smart luxury" simply stands for "a luxury-like vehicle that we have to sell cheap because we don't have the credibility or image to be worth more."

To me it's 'logical luxury cars that don't cost an arm and a leg to own.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I see no shame in trying to own the $30-45k market. They basically did it before with the 2nd and 3rd gen TL and MDX. German fanboys can scream all day about A4s and 328is being better than TSXs, but when owe cars cost $5-15k more comparatively equipped, yeah, eh should be better. If Acura could fix the TL's styling and get the 9AT in there, a lot of people would be happy to buy a roomy $42k TL that will run for 200k miles instead of a cramped, overpriced $50k A34 with about the same mechanical longevity of a mortar.

ILX still sucks though.

Truth! If the TL competed with the similarly-sized A6, I could see the anti-Honda viewpoint...but it kills the A4 for the same $. C-Class? LOL. With the 328i there is a real argument to be made for spending the extra $ on a smaller car.

Based on the fact that it shares its chassis and much of its engineering with a f---ing Porsche.

There's something to this. The Touareg feels incredibly solid and does very well at speed. More so than the RX.

Long-term durability is another matter entirely, but there is a solidity and composure in the VW that the Lexus doesn't have, and that certainly makes it 'feel' nicer.

My family's old MDX was a perfectly good product. But nobody will ever miss that car. Boring design, drove like a minivan, fake wood, bad leather/vinyl mix, no xenons. At well over $40K, it will still a fake luxury vehicle. It wasn't even that reliable --there were problems with the AWD, clunky shifts and it needed a replacement steering rack. An X5 at the time would have driven circles around it and done so with flair (at the usual cost of higher MSRP and more frequent maintenance).

"Smart luxury" = fake luxury.

Funny you should mention that. The 2007 MDX SH-AWD was pitted against the six-cylinder versions of the X5, ML, and Cayenne when it first came out, and it trounced all of them. I'll see if I can dig up that test.

[gti5dr06]

Agreed. Yes, turbo RSX was a risk. They were aiming at single dudes w/active lifestyles and decent salaries. I'm not sure the RDX was the car for that, but it's a great car in its own right. My wife loves them and it will probably be her next car.



Uh...

Style is subjective. Interior quality is less so. I think you should look at the modern crop of Acuras, compare them to their Japanese competition, and then to their German aspirants. I think it'll be obvious that they are ahead of Lexus and Infiniti, and in the mix with Ze Germans. In terms of storage and ergos I think they are probably the best.

As far as winning racing heritage...when I look at Acuras, I see Honda. And when I see Honda, I see F1, CART, MotoGP. I'm not going to make an argument for one company's motorsport accomplishments over another (not in this thread) but Honda is up there.



IMO, Acura's interiors are better laid-out than almost any other. The ease of use of their infotainment stuff is right up there in the top 3 or 4 (BMW, Infiniti being 2 others). If I hadn't spent time in the newer stuff (i.e. 2009+) I would agree with you.



To me it's 'logical luxury cars that don't cost an arm and a leg to own.



Truth! If the TL competed with the similarly-sized A6, I could see the anti-Honda viewpoint...but it kills the A4 for the same $. C-Class? LOL. With the 328i there is a real argument to be made for spending the extra $ on a smaller car.



There's something to this. The Touareg feels incredibly solid and does very well at speed. More so than the RX.

Long-term durability is another matter entirely, but there is a solidity and composure in the VW that the Lexus doesn't have, and that certainly makes it 'feel' nicer.



Funny you should mention that. The 2007 MDX SH-AWD was pitted against the six-cylinder versions of the X5, ML, and Cayenne when it first came out, and it trounced all of them. I'll see if I can dig up that test.

RDX with TOV tune + exhaust chopped off 1sec off 0-60 (a ton of area under the curve in real world driving) and increase in MPG. Still I think acura should've been able to do better stock. A lot of the criticisms on their interiors are based in the period immediately following the hallowed legend/TL. Most of the these people have never sat in advance TL/MDX which are notably better. For reference, I've sat in an e92 with its base leather and its as hard as my plebian accord's. If you want to talk about resale...just take a look at the X5, the resale plummet is range rover bad.

[03GTI4Me]

No GLI buyer on earth would cross-shop an Altima. Totally different buyer. And, where I come from, the VW brand has greater prestige than Nissan (and Acura as well, amongst the more cultured set).

[Ross1013]

RDX with TOV tune + exhaust chopped off 1sec off 0-60 (a ton of area under the curve in real world driving) and increase in MPG. Still I think acura should've been able to do better stock. A lot of the criticisms on their interiors are based in the period immediately following the hallowed legend/TL. Most of the these people have never sat in advance TL/MDX which are notably better. For reference, I've sat in an e92 with its base leather and its as hard as my plebian accord's. If you want to talk about resale...just take a look at the X5, the resale plummet is range rover bad.

Agreed.

IMO, the only reason to skip Acura entirely in a luxury-car search is if you must have a V8 or RWD. Or if you are looking for something in the M/AMG/RS range. Otherwise, they probably have a more logical alternative to the thing you're dreaming about, and it won't kill you on depreciation/maintenance.

[2Cor]

In any affluent community where the homes are older than the 1960's-70's, a Touareg would be preferred. The difference is probably more of a cultural distinction than a purely economic one.

This is such a generically non-quantifiable statement as to be completely irrelevant.

[Charlie84]

1: False. Fake luxury (i.e. VW) = fake luxury.
2: Keep stroking your leather wrapped dash.

Oh?








You see, some platforms work well for badge-engineering into a more expensive car. A Civic is not one of them.

Funny you should mention that. The 2007 MDX SH-AWD was pitted against the six-cylinder versions of the X5, ML, and Cayenne when it first came out, and it trounced all of them. I'll see if I can dig up that test.

Ah. We had the 2006 (I think), when it was still just a Honda Odyssey on stilts. It could not have been less interesting if it tried.

And we can certainly play the "new model beats the aging competition" game: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...ura-mdx-page-7

This is such a generically non-quantifiable statement as to be completely irrelevant.

Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

[above8k]

Phateon was a def a fake luxury vehicle. No wonder why sales tanked instantly.

[Charlie84]

Phateon was a def a fake luxury vehicle. No wonder why sales tanked instantly.

It's actually still on sale in Europe. When is the last time Acura tried something so ballsy?

Oh, right: The NSX. That was 1990.

[VarianceVQ]

Hyundai's a premium brand, bros.

[above8k]

It's actually still on sale in Europe. When is the last time Acura tried something so ballsy?

Oh, right: The NSX. That was 1990.

Europe? Who cares?

When it comes to ownership, Americans knows better whats luxury or better car for money.
Unfortunately, Phaeton was neither.