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    Thread: ILX sales are below Acura projections

    1. 10-13-2012 02:21 PM #211
      LOL, MKIV was the worst Golf ever. Nose heavy and ugly.

    2. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      10-13-2012 02:25 PM #212
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      The Integra was too low end and projected the wrong image. It should have been a Honda and Acuras should have remained true to the 2nd gen Legend and Legend coupe.
      But the first Integra was a-ok relative to the first Legend? What changed in the second gen?

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      10-13-2012 02:30 PM #213
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      The Integra was too low end and projected the wrong image. It should have been a Honda and Acuras should have remained true to the 2nd gen Legend and Legend coupe.
      No it wasn't. At the time nobody (except the Detroiters' Buick and Mercury, etc.) had an entry level luxury brand and that was exactly what Acura was created given their product. The first was the Integra and even after they came out with the Legend they were not BMW/MB level.

      And when Acura intro'd, Lexus and Infiniti didn't even exist, yet. Conservative companies like Honda don't do things in big steps, and thus, their evolution of existing architectures and powertrains to create Acura. They were not aiming for MB levels of "luxury". They were clearly wanting to afford their loyal customers with growing wealth a choice in the entry level luxury market. They were wanting to compete where Buick and Mercury were lost and could not see the potential, but also give those yuppies without BMW/MB money a stepping stone.

      The only failure they had was their strategy (while good) had no plans for the kind of wealth that was growing fast. As the wealth grew and their cross-town (country) rivals jumped into the game... their conservativeness kept them back. Call it Honda's entrenched focus on efficiency (vs RWD, V8s, etc.) or whatever, but THAT is where they lost it. And once the auto industry in the 90s started to see the advent of SUVs and even other sportier FWD products... Acura's niche suddenly became less attractive. Or at least... very weak.

      Acuras are not anywhere near bad cars. They just suffered the inability (due to historical perceptions by consumers and journalists of what luxury is) to convince enough people that their brand was anything than entry luxury and that hurt, because as mainstream products evolve in refinement... the differentiation between some Hondas/Toyotas/etc. and Acuras became very small. At least in perception and partially in product.
      Last edited by uncleho; 10-13-2012 at 03:22 PM.

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      10-13-2012 02:31 PM #214
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      You're all trolls. All I will say is compare an MKIV to a similar year Civic/Corolla/Sentra/Neon/Focus/Cavalier and see which has aged better. Same story for the Passat as well.
      1)Civic
      2)Corolla
      3)MKIV
      4)MKIV
      5)Tie
      6)MKIV

      There you go.

      And do we want to play the reliability game? I'd figure every single Japanese car is more reliable today, the Focus and Cavalier break about as much but are much much cheaper to repair, and the Neon is a few notches below them all.

      Who's the troll now?
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      Scenario: Uphill on two lane hwy. You need to pass and overtake a slower vehicle. That 151 torque won't let you. You will hit an oncoming car the opposite side if you do.

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      10-13-2012 02:59 PM #215
      I agree with uncleho, the Integra was not down market, but for a company lacking V8 powered rwd cars, Acura could not match Lexus/MB. At least Acura stopped their silly notion of Tier-1.

      Interestingly, market conditions could not be better for Acura today. I don't see the old V8 rwd formula as necessary for a luxury car brand. Any company that can get the right mix of fuel economy, technology, refinement, and styling could become a potent competitor.
      Quote Originally Posted by rich! View Post
      i'd lock this thread but i have no clue how...

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      10-13-2012 03:20 PM #216
      Quote Originally Posted by KahviVW View Post
      Interestingly, market conditions could not be better for Acura today. I don't see the old V8 rwd formula as necessary for a luxury car brand. Any company that can get the right mix of fuel economy, technology, refinement, and styling could become a potent competitor.
      Exactly!

      It's unfortunate that they never saw the profits of the tier 1s back in the lofty 90s, but their original formula could be so right TODAY. They have the wherewithal technically (or can if they put their minds to it), but I think that inability to grow their brand image strength in the Golden Years of the 90s/early 2000s hurt them today. But then... they're far from dead, so it's a matter of marketing IMHO. But this market is a lot tougher today than the 90s.

      They historically have the image for efficiency. They need to milk that cow dry!

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      10-13-2012 03:32 PM #217
      They used a good song for the commercial. That's all I'm gonna say.

    8. Member HI SPEED's Avatar
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      10-13-2012 03:34 PM #218
      Maybe if Acura wanted to sell cars they would stop hiring blind people in peyote induced trances to design them.

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      10-13-2012 03:38 PM #219
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post








      Where does the Spectra fit on this list?
      A Spectra? Below the list.

      Look, I get your schtick. Troll harder.
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      Scenario: Uphill on two lane hwy. You need to pass and overtake a slower vehicle. That 151 torque won't let you. You will hit an oncoming car the opposite side if you do.

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      10-13-2012 03:45 PM #220
      Acura wont last in the next 5 years.

    11. 10-13-2012 04:10 PM #221
      Quote Originally Posted by Rob. View Post
      Acura wont be last on buyer's list in about 5 years.
      FIFY

    12. 10-13-2012 04:23 PM #222
      To be fair a majority of cars that BMW and Audi sell do not have V8 engines. Why would Acura need to develop one. I think investing in a turbo or supercharged V6 would be a much better financial decision because it could be used in the RLX, MDX and the next TL. Also developing a platform like Audi's MLB platform could help them separate their line up from Honda. If Honda wants to make Acura successful they need to actually invest money into it.

    13. Member baljet's Avatar
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      10-13-2012 04:55 PM #223
      Quote Originally Posted by a2a4raddo View Post
      I always thought the Integra should have been a Honda and the Prelude should have been an Acura.

      That said, the Integra didn't hurt Acuras image one bit. It brought a lot of people over to the brand. Acura was the number 1 selling luxo brand in the states at one point.
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      But the first Integra was a-ok relative to the first Legend? What changed in the second gen?
      The Integra was not a luxury car. It was an economy car. It had a 4 cylinder engine mounted transversely and driving the front wheels. Like most Acuras except for the Legend, the Integra did not hide its Honda roots well and there was nothing special about it that separated it from other Hondas.

      It could have just as well passed for a mainstream Honda. It did nothing to build the Acura brand or contribute to improving its image.

    14. Member a2a4raddo's Avatar
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      10-13-2012 07:40 PM #224
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      The Integra was not a luxury car. It was an economy car. It had a 4 cylinder engine mounted transversely and driving the front wheels. Like most Acuras except for the Legend, the Integra did not hide its Honda roots well and there was nothing special about it that separated it from other Hondas.

      It could have just as well passed for a mainstream Honda. It did nothing to build the Acura brand or contribute to improving its image.
      Again, it brought people through the door....and helped Acura become the number one selling luxury brand for some time. Bringing those clients through the door is exactly what they needed as a start up brand....once In, they aspire to own a legend or an nsx and stay with the brand they so enjoyed driving, had great dealer service with, and a reliable vehicle. Get it?

      Today (despite what ignorant tcl folk think), they are still selling in decent numbers ahead of Infiniti and Audi. Go back to the mid 2000's, and they were selling over 200k cars a year prior to the beak fest and economy tanking.

      What acura needs are winners with the next batch of cars coming...new TL, new MDX, new RLX, and new NSX....all due to hit the maket in the next year or two. At that point, they need to expand their portfolio to Audi and Lexus levels. As a 5-6 car line won't cut it if they want to play with the big boys (mb/BMW/Lexus)

      Offering an entry level car is a good thing IMHO. Doesn't always work.....but if the product is great, it will work bringing new customers to the brand. It worked for Acura, it worked for Infiniti with the first g20. Audi brought the a3 here, and BMW Floped with the 318ti but gave it another go with the 1 series.

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      10-13-2012 08:30 PM #225
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      This car single handedly destroyed Acura's image as an upmarket brand.
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      The Integra was not a luxury car. It was an economy car. It had a 4 cylinder engine mounted transversely and driving the front wheels. Like most Acuras except for the Legend, the Integra did not hide its Honda roots well and there was nothing special about it that separated it from other Hondas.

      It could have just as well passed for a mainstream Honda. It did nothing to build the Acura brand or contribute to improving its image.
      The Integra and Legend launched at the same time. The second Integra that you say single handedly destroyed Acura's image as an upmarket brand preceded the 2nd wave of Acuras, the NSX and 2g Legend, and Vigor, but it didn't alter the formula of the Integra that helped build Acura's reputation in the first place. For the first 10 years of Acura's existence, the Integra and Legend were each about half of the sales.

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      10-13-2012 08:37 PM #226
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      The Integra was not a luxury car. It was an economy car. It had a 4 cylinder engine mounted transversely and driving the front wheels. Like most Acuras except for the Legend, the Integra did not hide its Honda roots well and there was nothing special about it that separated it from other Hondas.

      It could have just as well passed for a mainstream Honda. It did nothing to build the Acura brand or contribute to improving its image.
      I think Integra was like today's Mini Cooper. They are not luxury car. They are premium branded compact. Both "yesterday" Integra and nowadays Mini cooper definitely not compete with compacts like (old) Cavalier/Civic or (now) Cruze/Veloster.

      Integra sales always did pretty good. And thanks to those retard Acura management though it would cheapen the brand, they cancelled it and gave ALL their customers to cars like Mini Cooper, VW GTI... After 7 years, they finally realize they were "doing it wrong" and reuse the Integra formula (create a more expensive car based on Civic) and here comes this ILX.

      The "failure" of Acura brand definitely was not caused by the Integra. I say cars like RL fail Acura much more than a sale success Integra/RSX.

      All generations of RL fail to compete BMW5/Mercedes E/or even Lexus GS
      For 20+ years, Acura fail to have a BMW7/Mercedes S/Lexus LS fighter
      ZDX fail as a X6 wantabe
      Acura fail to make RDX popular even this SUV came out WAY before BMW X1 or Mercedes GLK.
      Acura fail to have anything compete cars like Mercedes B, BMW1, CT, BMW M3, Audi R8, Mercedes GL...
      Honda (parent of Acura) as a first hybrid manufacturer to hit the mass market in the NORTH AMERICA, Acura fail to have anything hybrid in their lineup (again, they can do that way before the German). Even Porsche have hybrid products sooner than them.
      Last edited by Avus; 10-13-2012 at 09:25 PM.
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    17. 10-13-2012 09:50 PM #227
      i LOVE my ZDX

      **** the haters

    18. 10-13-2012 09:57 PM #228
      Quote Originally Posted by 03GTI4Me View Post
      I'm so glad to see there is a gif of this already

      Needs an 'oh snap' or something.
      what's the story behind that?

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      10-13-2012 10:42 PM #229
      Quote Originally Posted by koko12 View Post
      what's the story behind that?
      Hoodrat gets on bus without paying
      Hoodrat starts spouting off and cussing at bus driver
      Hoodrat punches bus driver while he's trying to drive
      Bus driver says "f@@k that" and STFUppercuts dat hoe.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwbl...e_gdata_player

      Original

      http://youtu.be/OmqUlXQCAz8
      Last edited by Mazda 3s; 10-13-2012 at 10:45 PM.
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      10-13-2012 11:02 PM #230
      Quote Originally Posted by koko12 View Post
      what's the story behind that?
      If you want equal rights, you gotta take some equal lefts, HAHAHAHAHAHA....hilarious.

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      10-13-2012 11:13 PM #231
      Quote Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post
      Hoodrat gets on bus without paying
      Hoodrat starts spouting off and cussing at bus driver
      Hoodrat punches bus driver while he's trying to drive
      Bus driver says "f@@k that" and STFUppercuts dat hoe.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwbl...e_gdata_player

      Original

      http://youtu.be/OmqUlXQCAz8
      Wow, cheapshot, I doubt Mr. Bus driver would've stepped to a male passenger the same way.

      OT: This Acura should have been the new Civic.

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      10-13-2012 11:25 PM #232
      Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownA34DR View Post
      What the hell is that thing?




      NVM, Google and it is a Civic.


      If that was to compete with anything what would it be? The Verano training doesn't say anything about it, but it is the same size and class as it.

    23. 10-14-2012 12:20 PM #233
      Oh man the sound effects had me rolling

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwbl...e_gdata_player

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      10-14-2012 12:44 PM #234
      The brand really makes sense if you consider long-term TCO.

      By and large they offer very easy ownership experiences compared w/European marques.

      If you're just leasing a new car every few years, you can get more exciting experiences elsewhere.

      Killing the NSX and Integra were major mistakes that they're about 50% of the way to correcting.

      Acura models always have better performance and tech than their Honda counterparts, so the ILX 2.4 lacking the LSD and NAV makes zero sense whatsoever. They need to rectify that ASAP.

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      10-14-2012 01:59 PM #235
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus;
      Acura fail to make RDX popular even this SUV came out WAY before BMW X1 or Mercedes GLK.
      :
      I agree with most of your post except for this part. The RDX has been popular (relative to its class) since its debut. It has consistently been one of the top 3 sellers (often number 1 or 2) in its class.

      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post

      Acura models always have better performance and tech than their Honda counterparts, so the ILX 2.4 lacking the LSD and NAV makes zero sense whatsoever. They need to rectify that ASAP.
      I have a feeling this will be corrected once they swap over the new earth dreams engines.....at least the nav part in the performance model and possibly an auto option in that model as well.

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      10-14-2012 03:25 PM #236
      Acura really just needs to get on board with direct injection.

    27. Member baljet's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 11:44 AM #237
      Quote Originally Posted by a2a4raddo View Post
      Again, it brought people through the door....and helped Acura become the number one selling luxury brand for some time. Bringing those clients through the door is exactly what they needed as a start up brand....once In, they aspire to own a legend or an nsx and stay with the brand they so enjoyed driving, had great dealer service with, and a reliable vehicle. Get it?

      Today (despite what ignorant tcl folk think), they are still selling in decent numbers ahead of Infiniti and Audi. Go back to the mid 2000's, and they were selling over 200k cars a year prior to the beak fest and economy tanking.

      What acura needs are winners with the next batch of cars coming...new TL, new MDX, new RLX, and new NSX....all due to hit the maket in the next year or two. At that point, they need to expand their portfolio to Audi and Lexus levels. As a 5-6 car line won't cut it if they want to play with the big boys (mb/BMW/Lexus)

      Offering an entry level car is a good thing IMHO. Doesn't always work.....but if the product is great, it will work bringing new customers to the brand. It worked for Acura, it worked for Infiniti with the first g20. Audi brought the a3 here, and BMW Floped with the 318ti but gave it another go with the 1 series.
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      The Integra and Legend launched at the same time. The second Integra that you say single handedly destroyed Acura's image as an upmarket brand preceded the 2nd wave of Acuras, the NSX and 2g Legend, and Vigor, but it didn't alter the formula of the Integra that helped build Acura's reputation in the first place. For the first 10 years of Acura's existence, the Integra and Legend were each about half of the sales.
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post
      I think Integra was like today's Mini Cooper. They are not luxury car. They are premium branded compact. Both "yesterday" Integra and nowadays Mini cooper definitely not compete with compacts like (old) Cavalier/Civic or (now) Cruze/Veloster.

      Integra sales always did pretty good. And thanks to those retard Acura management though it would cheapen the brand, they cancelled it and gave ALL their customers to cars like Mini Cooper, VW GTI... After 7 years, they finally realize they were "doing it wrong" and reuse the Integra formula (create a more expensive car based on Civic) and here comes this ILX.

      The "failure" of Acura brand definitely was not caused by the Integra. I say cars like RL fail Acura much more than a sale success Integra/RSX.

      All generations of RL fail to compete BMW5/Mercedes E/or even Lexus GS
      For 20+ years, Acura fail to have a BMW7/Mercedes S/Lexus LS fighter
      ZDX fail as a X6 wantabe
      Acura fail to make RDX popular even this SUV came out WAY before BMW X1 or Mercedes GLK.
      Acura fail to have anything compete cars like Mercedes B, BMW1, CT, BMW M3, Audi R8, Mercedes GL...
      Honda (parent of Acura) as a first hybrid manufacturer to hit the mass market in the NORTH AMERICA, Acura fail to have anything hybrid in their lineup (again, they can do that way before the German). Even Porsche have hybrid products sooner than them.
      Guys good sales does not necessarily mean the car helped the brand. Selling a lot of low end economy cars wearing your premium badge distills the brand, and we can all agree that Acura's brand is not and has never been as strong/upmarket as other startups like Lexus or even Infiniti. The Integra so early on is partly to blame IMO.

      A startup luxury brand needs to do everything it can to gain cachet, respect, and acceptance. High volume through economy car sales is not necessarily a good strategy to begin with. There was little upmarket or luxurious about the Integra yet it was half of Acura's volume. Even today when you think "Acura of the 90s" the Integra first comest to mind. When you think Lexus of the 90s, the LS400 comes to mind. Huge gap in image.
      Last edited by baljet; 10-16-2012 at 11:55 AM.

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      10-16-2012 12:06 PM #238
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      Guys good sales does not necessarily mean the car helped the brand. Selling a lot of low end economy cars wearing your premium badge distills the brand, and we can all agree that Acura's brand is not and has never been as strong/upmarket as other startups like Lexus or even Infiniti. The Integra so early on is partly to blame IMO.

      A startup luxury brand needs to do everything it can to gain cachet, respect, and acceptance. High volume through economy car sales is not necessarily a good strategy to begin with. There was little upmarket or luxurious about the Integra yet it was half of Acura's volume.
      A startup luxury brand needs to be able to carry enough volume to support its new, dedicated dealer network. Certainly Integra was a premium product relative to the Hondas of the era in terms of power, features, and cachet. Despite its FWD orientation, it was well suited to its yuppiemobile era, when the "Baby Benz" had just been launched, and the 3-series was building its market. Its competition ran 4-cylinders as well, and with power levels of the era, FWD wasn't necessarily at a disadvantage.

      That startup model clearly made sense, as when Toyota launched Lexus 4 years later, it also started with a 'gussied-up Camry' in the lineup next to its breakthrough, flagship product.

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      10-16-2012 12:14 PM #239
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      Guys good sales does not necessarily mean the car helped the brand. Selling a lot of low end economy cars wearing your premium badge distills the brand, and we can all agree that Acura's brand is not and has never been as strong/upmarket as other startups like Lexus or even Infiniti. The Integra so early on is partly to blame IMO.

      A startup luxury brand needs to do everything it can to gain cachet, respect, and acceptance. High volume through economy car sales is not necessarily a good strategy to begin with. There was little upmarket or luxurious about the Integra yet it was half of Acura's volume. Even today when you think "Acura of the 90s" the Integra first comest to mind. When you think Lexus of the 90s, the LS400 comes to mind. Huge gap in image.
      I think it's a combo. Having the bulk of your sales coming from lower-priced luxury models isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as you continue to develop and expand your upper-end lineup. Lexus selling a buttload of RXs and ESs doesn't hurt them because they continue to put effort into their upper-end vehicles (although for the last few years it has been a trickle). Acura killed off the NSX, let the RL become irrelavant, never followed up with a CL coupe, and decided to target the low-selling X6 as their only new upmarket entry in a decade. Had they done more with their premium models then the Integra's impact wouldn't sway your impression so much.

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      10-16-2012 12:54 PM #240
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      Guys good sales does not necessarily mean the car helped the brand. Selling a lot of low end economy cars wearing your premium badge distills the brand, and we can all agree that Acura's brand is not and has never been as strong/upmarket as other startups like Lexus or even Infiniti. The Integra so early on is partly to blame IMO.

      A startup luxury brand needs to do everything it can to gain cachet, respect, and acceptance. High volume through economy car sales is not necessarily a good strategy to begin with. There was little upmarket or luxurious about the Integra yet it was half of Acura's volume. Even today when you think "Acura of the 90s" the Integra first comest to mind. When you think Lexus of the 90s, the LS400 comes to mind. Huge gap in image.
      This is how you see this from the angle... But i see it from the opposite side...
      Acura brand failure is not from the success of a premium compact (Integra/RSX), it is their lack of "expensive stuff". Yes they had a supercar called NSX. But it only served a very very small market. (or more like a halo car) Like i said before, Acura failed to sell RL (real luxury car level start from here). They reluctant to make anything bigger (in terms of chassis or engine). A BIG GAP from RL to NSX!! To me, all Acura (Honda) did in the past 10+ years were just use the Accord platform to make as many as different "near" luxury products. This is their main failure. There is the reason why Lexus made a big deal when they start selling their $100k+ LS (600L hybrid) or $370k+ LFA. It tells the world that Lexus is a real premium brand that made expensive stuff!!

      Lexus = a premium brand mainly sell cheap stuff like ES, RX, but still have expensive stuff like LS, LX, GS, LFA... (much like BMW or Audi mainly sell 3 series or A4 but have much more expensive available)
      Acura = a premium brand mainly sell cheap stuff period.

      Honda had been ran by bean counter for decade and the current Acura is a good example. Minimal R&D on chassis, engine and transmission on ALL current Acura products.
      Last edited by Avus; 10-16-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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    31. Senior Member JustinCSVT's Avatar
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      2011 VW CC
      10-16-2012 02:09 PM #241
      Quote Originally Posted by EQVN01 View Post
      Wow, cheapshot, I doubt Mr. Bus driver would've stepped to a male passenger the same way.
      I bet he would've.

    32. Member MK5golf's Avatar
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      Jun 30th, 2012
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      Montreal
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      2009 vw rabbit
      10-16-2012 06:37 PM #242
      Quote Originally Posted by NoXenons View Post
      *sells well

      I have seen more ferraris on the road this year than G20's. Actually, ive seen a LOT MORE
      Z is pronounced ZED

    33. Member Brimjolt's Avatar
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      May 16th, 2008
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      '13 Jetta, '98 GTI
      10-16-2012 06:45 PM #243
      expect a big sale of these this later next year
      Quote Originally Posted by Zhine
      Power sliding is not worth it, I realized I was addicted and have taken up a much healthier safer hobby called high school girls

    34. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 07:16 PM #244
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      Acura models always have better performance and tech than their Honda counterparts, so the ILX 2.4 lacking the LSD and NAV makes zero sense whatsoever. They need to rectify that ASAP.
      I thought Honda stated take rate for the TSX + MT + Navi were so low they didn't bother with the ILX.

      How would making a combo that sells to 11 people benefit Acura.

    35. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      May 25th, 2012
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      2009 Si sedan and 2012 Crosstour 4WD
      10-16-2012 07:21 PM #245
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      I thought Honda stated take rate for the TSX + MT + Navi were so low they didn't bother with the ILX.

      How would making a combo that sells to 11 people benefit Acura.
      Yes, it was less than 1%.

      I feel this car would be a different story. Don't ask me why. Just a feeling.

      They could at least make the 2.4L available w/Tech Package and 5AT/6AT.

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