020 Guru's please help

[Sanityana]

Hi I have an 88 16v Scirocco that came with an 020 FF transmission (which i like the gearing of very much) the previous owner had installed.

Last week the "auto fail...er adjusting" clutch cable that came with the car failed. I bought a manual cable replace it with, but when I went to install it I noticed the clutch arm on the front of the transmission had almost no tension on it. After consulting some more experienced friends and a local shop everyone agreed the likely culprit was the small arm that presses in on the throw out bearing.

Tonight I poped off the green cap expecting to find a bent or cracked arm and/or a mangled bearing to my surprise I discovered the push rod was barely peaking through:


This raised a red flag but I decided to test fit the new bearing anyway


With the new bearing in the arm that should be depressing it can barely make contact with it due to the push rod being so far recessed


Any idea what caused this? How can I fix it? Is there any chance of me not having to pull the transmission to sort this out?

All help appreciated!

I've been trying to do right by this car (progress so far http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...thread-88-16v) and correct all the previous owners wrongness, but funds are short right now and I'd really like to get this sorted out without having to fork over tons of loot to a shop.

Thanks!

[Broke]

Last week the "auto fail...er adjusting" clutch cable that came with the car failed.

Did the pedal drop to the floor and stay as you depressed the pedal to use it or did the pedal just suddenly lose tension and was easy to operate?

I bought a manual cable replace it with, but when I went to install it I noticed the clutch arm on the front of the transmission had almost no tension on it.

The release arm will be floppy and loose feeling, but you shouldn't be able to lift it above 9:00 by hand.

After consulting some more experienced friends and a local shop everyone agreed the likely culprit was the small arm that presses in on the throw out bearing.

It is very often that actuation finger that cracks, but it can also be the clutch parts. Generally you check the finger as it will cost you a green end cap and might save pulling the trans... if the finger is OK though then the box has to come out to inspect the clutch parts.
Specifically, the thrust plate that is clipped to the pressure plate... if the pushrod punches a hole in the middle of it, you lose the ability to operate the clutch.

The clutch is still grabbing fully, you just can't disengage it by depressing the pedal now, right?

Tonight I poped off the green cap expecting to find a bent or cracked arm and/or a mangled bearing to my surprise I discovered the push rod was barely peaking through:

It looks like the pushrod has gone through the release plate, or some other clutch parts failure that is preventing the pushrod from being shoved back out by the pressure plate.

Any idea what caused this?

It could be several things from just a worn out thrust plate to a bad pushrod bushing not supporting the end of the pushrod and allowing it to wobble and walk, accelerating the wear of the thrust plate center pad, an improperly adjusted cable can cause it, riding with your foot on the clutch can cause it, etc...

How can I fix it? Is there any chance of me not having to pull the transmission to sort this out?

No, it looks like the trans has to come out to inspect the clutch parts at this point.

Slide the pushrod out (grab it with something and pull it out of the 5th end of the trans) and inspect the end for signs of it having punched through. If it is hard to slide out, it may be through the thrust plate, or if the end is bad it would indicate a problem at the clutch parts.

Don't forget if you order a clutch that you have an 8V trans on the car, ordering clutch parts for the 16V Scirocco will get a clutch too large at the center hub for the FF trans input shaft, as that car should have an AGB or 2Y trans with the larger 24mm input shaft.

[Sanityana]

Did the pedal drop to the floor and stay as you depressed the pedal to use it or did the pedal just suddenly lose tension and was easy to operate?

----lost tension impossible to operate, but clutch cable way fraying and plastic parts looked worse for wear


The release arm will be floppy and loose feeling, but you shouldn't be able to lift it above 9:00 by hand.

----it topped out without any resistance


It is very often that actuation finger that cracks, but it can also be the clutch parts. Generally you check the finger as it will cost you a green end cap and might save pulling the trans... if the finger is OK though then the box has to come out to inspect the clutch parts.
Specifically, the thrust plate that is clipped to the pressure plate... if the pushrod punches a hole in the middle of it, you lose the ability to operate the clutch.

------Finger is actually in perfect shape, was really hoping it was the culprit

The clutch is still grabbing fully, you just can't disengage it by depressing the pedal now, right?

------clutch is not engaged and will not engage. If I put the car in gear and hit the starter it moves the car

It looks like the pushrod has gone through the release plate, or some other clutch parts failure that is preventing the pushrod from being shoved back out by the pressure plate.

----Yep, pretty much the conclusion I was coming too, but was hoping...

It could be several things from just a worn out thrust plate to a bad pushrod bushing not supporting the end of the pushrod and allowing it to wobble and walk, accelerating the wear of the thrust plate center pad, an improperly adjusted cable can cause it, riding with your foot on the clutch can cause it, etc...

------The old self adjuster had the arm up pretty far, thinking clutch is/was at the end of its life anyway

No, it looks like the trans has to come out to inspect the clutch parts at this point.

-----Yep making plans now with some friends next week

Slide the pushrod out (grab it with something and pull it out of the 5th end of the trans) and inspect the end for signs of it having punched through. If it is hard to slide out, it may be through the thrust plate, or if the end is bad it would indicate a problem at the clutch parts.

----slides in and out easily, both ends look normal

Don't forget if you order a clutch that you have an 8V trans on the car, ordering clutch parts for the 16V Scirocco will get a clutch too large at the center hub for the FF trans input shaft, as that car should have an AGB or 2Y trans with the larger 24mm input shaft.

----Yeah I've though about going back to a 2Y (assuming one can be found) and just swapping out the 5th gear to have the close ratio 1-4. There kind of like hens teeth around here these days though and the car pulls hard even with the wider gears on the FF so I really don't have any huge complaints about it aside from the clutch problems of the moment. The higher top end is definitely fun

Thanks for all the good feedback, I'm still in a transitional phase from air cooled knowledge to water. A lot is the same, but the transmissions are quite a bit different.

[Thrasher]

Clutch release plate failed, guaranteed.
You're welcome.

[Sanityana]

Thanks much, hopefully I can get this sorted in the next couple weeks in time for some nice fall drives

[Topper Harley]

Clutch release plate failed, guaranteed.
You're welcome.

I second this notion.

[Sanityana]

35 miles to friends shop, made it with just 2nd and 4th

[Sanityana]

2Y in, took the car out tonight. Very good upgrade!