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    Thread: What will it take to get/force you out of your car and into some other form of transit?

    1. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 11:49 AM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by PsyberVW View Post
      The problem I see is CostCo, not the bus

      Not that it's your fault, but that is the way we've been developing suburbia. If you had a small corner market within a couple blocks of your home, it would be a part of the lifestyle. You could buy fresh food daily or every other day, and not have to live the big box/frozen food lifestyle.

      It's ironic that we have to live like pioneers at the edge of civilization with our monthly treks to town for goods.

      I keep nothing in my fridge but a few condiments and fluids. I don't use my microwave. I go to the market daily. I cook all meals from scratch or near to, but never with frozen food - always fresh meats, veggies, fruits, etc.. But my market is 2 miles away - just far enough to mean I have to drive. A scooter or even bicycle would be ideal, but the risk at this point is pretty high. The streets have 55mph speed limits, and every time I drive, I see cars weaving into the occasional bike lanes.

      Public transportation here is not very robust, either. One bus, every 1-3 hours, and it doesn't go to that shopping center with the supermarket???

      Maybe $8 /gallon gas will make us re-think this ill strategy of putting up miles of walled boulevards and forcing us into the big box culture.
      I don't buy much food at Costco (actually Sam's) but I buy paper products, toothpaste, soap, bottled water and bottled green tea, etc, in bulk there. And quite frankly, I don't want to go to some small ****ty corner market every day, because that's a pain in my ass and time I could spend with my wife, daughter and dog.

    2. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 11:53 AM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      I feel for some of you so deep in the Burbs that you cannot walk or ride to the grocery store, etc. The area I live puts me within 5 miles of plenty of restuarant or grocery/shopping stores so I can walk or ride my bike... save for the deep of winter.
      I really don't get why I would want to ride or walk to a store. That would mean that either a) I would have a ton of groceries to somehow get home on a bike/carry (or use a tremendously gay rolling bag thing) or b) it's a small trip for only a few things that should take 5 min but now I'm going to make take 30 minutes or more because I'm not going to use a car. I wonder what kind of hours people who advocate doing this work. Because as someone who works 10+ hours most days, (all the daylight hours from ~October to ~March) I don't want to waste me off time walking to the store or taking a zillion small trips.

    3. Member vdubman1's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 12:16 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Something around a .30 caliber or larger. Here's a news flash - there are lots & lots of people who don't want to live in a giant shoebox of smaller shoeboxes. Cities are great places to visit, but don't want to live there...
      This.

      Also, my company supplies me with a workvan. I have my own pickup, as I buy/renovate/sell/rent houses on the side, so I need it for that.

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      10-07-2012 12:22 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      I don't buy much food at Costco (actually Sam's) but I buy paper products, toothpaste, soap, bottled water and bottled green tea, etc, in bulk there. And quite frankly, I don't want to go to some small ****ty corner market every day, because that's a pain in my ass and time I could spend with my wife, daughter and dog.
      Dog needs a walk right? Wouldn't hurt the wife and kids either. I grew up this way, and it was a great social + exercise opportunity. If anything- this gives you time with your family.

      For dry goods, you can survive without so much surplus- or just buy a little extra each time you go.

      It's not impossible- millions of people do it.

    5. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 12:24 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by PsyberVW View Post
      Dog needs a walk right? Wouldn't hurt the wife and kids either. I grew up this way, and it was a great social + exercise opportunity. If anything- this gives you time with your family.

      For dry goods, you can survive without so much surplus- or just buy a little extra each time you go.

      It's not impossible- millions of people do it.
      It certainly wouldn't be progress.

    6. 10-07-2012 12:30 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      I feel for some of you so deep in the Burbs that you cannot walk or ride to the grocery store, etc. The area I live puts me within 5 miles of plenty of restuarant or grocery/shopping stores so I can walk or ride my bike... save for the deep of winter.
      Some of us actually like having a house, garage and a few acres of land.
      The nearest fast food is about ten miles away. I hate living in the city and would see a situation that ended with me living downtown as something worst than death. I feel bad for all the people wedged into the concrete jungle, trying to justify tiny overpriced shoeboxes and lack of freedom.

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      10-07-2012 12:36 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by Air-over-water View Post
      Some of us actually like having a house, garage and a few acres of land.
      The nearest fast food is about ten miles away. I hate living in the city and would see a situation that ended with me living downtown as something worst than death. I feel bad for all the people wedged into the concrete jungle, trying to justify tiny overpriced shoeboxes and lack of freedom.
      x2... and you don't even have to be that far away from everything either! I have just under 5 acres, house, workshop/garage, and can't see/hear my neighbours. However, less than a 10 minute drive away is a town with all the groceries and restaurants and whatnot. If thats not enough there is a city of 500,000 only 25 minutes away with absolutely everything you would ever need.

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      10-07-2012 01:57 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      I really don't get why I would want to ride or walk to a store. That would mean that either a) I would have a ton of groceries to somehow get home on a bike/carry (or use a tremendously gay rolling bag thing) or b) it's a small trip for only a few things that should take 5 min but now I'm going to make take 30 minutes or more because I'm not going to use a car. I wonder what kind of hours people who advocate doing this work. Because as someone who works 10+ hours most days, (all the daylight hours from ~October to ~March) I don't want to waste me off time walking to the store or taking a zillion small trips.
      I tell ya... it must be election season frustration that gets people bent at the slightest verbiage that may sound antagonistic to them.

      1) When I said, "I feel sorry..." what I meant was, "I feel sorry that some of you do not have the FLEXIBILITY like I do to: a) Drive if you want, b) Walk if you want, or c) Ride if you want. I did NOT infer, "I feel sorry for you... because y'all a bunch of dumbarse! Go ride a bike, you b*tches!!!"

      2) How you live is your business... not mine (obviously). I would like to think that the BEST scenario is when everyone has as many OPTIONS available to them. Like me (It hasn't always been that way for me.). And that is why I said, "I feel sorry..."

      BTW... because I have all three options... when I need to do a COSTCO run (~1x/month), we have the car for that. When I need to get some veggies for a certain meal... I ride to the grocery about 2-3 miles away. I don't make a "zillion" rides for anything. I, too, work 10+ hours per week... 6 days, so yeah... I hear yah about TIME. Biking for me permits me to get my cardio exercise in during the week (1 hour to work and 1 hour back) so I can lift late at night when the kiddies are asleep.

      Lighten up, bro.

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      10-07-2012 02:08 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by Air-over-water View Post
      Some of us actually like having a house, garage and a few acres of land.
      The nearest fast food is about ten miles away. I hate living in the city and would see a situation that ended with me living downtown as something worst than death. I feel bad for all the people wedged into the concrete jungle, trying to justify tiny overpriced shoeboxes and lack of freedom.
      1) I have a house. It's just being rented to Japanese expats right now.
      2) I have a garage. In the house and my current townhouse.
      3) A few acres of land? Dude, I'd dare say 95% of the US population does NOT have that luxury. Especially anyone living in any suburb. But yeah... I have 5 wooded acres in the boonies outside of Metro Detroit (my retirement home or getaway for the zombie apocalypse). Anyone living on acreage like that is definitely not signing up for quick drives to the groceries.
      4) My townhouse is 3500SF over 4 floors (It's a LIVE/WORK setup, but I use the WORK space as a family room and gym.). And like I said... I am far from the "urban jungle" since Birmingham, MI is as suburbia as it gets... albeit less sprawl than most modern suburbia.
      5) I have plenty of park area around me... within riding or driving distance. Amazingly... Metro Detroit is fairly green compared to most suburbia around the US (i.e. We actually have lots of trees.).
      6) As far as freedom goes... I gots it. Along with flexibility of options... which was my whole point all along (i.e. READ MY RESPONSE TO STACK before you go bonkers with reactionary responses. Have a and relax, chief.).

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      10-07-2012 02:27 PM #85
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      10-07-2012 10:47 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by Air-over-water View Post
      Some of us actually like having a house, garage and a few acres of land.
      The nearest fast food is about ten miles away. I hate living in the city and would see a situation that ended with me living downtown as something worst than death. I feel bad for all the people wedged into the concrete jungle, trying to justify tiny overpriced shoeboxes and lack of freedom.
      Nothing good infrastructure couldn't solve: such as rural light rail and bus routes.

      Urban living may not be your choice, but it's not right to say it lacks freedom. More choices, more options, certainly aren't infringing on freedom.

      I've lived in all sorts of areas and I'll be the first in line for an over-priced shoebox if it means a 5 minute walk to work/market/gym/park, etc...

      At the same time, I like living 2 hours away from a major metro and having land, garages, cars, etc... As long as I don't need to make that trip very often.

      But say I did-- I'd much rather a high speed rail take me to LA /SF / LV /SD than waste time driving or deal with a combination of airlines, connections, and rental cars. I could spend that commute time working, reading email, conference calling, etc...

      There's no "trying" to justify any of it- it's all a balance of preference and necessity. Don't poo poo it just because it doesn't suit your needs.

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      10-07-2012 10:52 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by PsyberVW View Post
      Nothing good infrastructure couldn't solve: such as rural light rail and bus routes.

      Urban living may not be your choice, but it's not right to say it lacks freedom. More choices, more options, certainly aren't infringing on freedom.

      I've lived in all sorts of areas and I'll be the first in line for an over-priced shoebox if it means a 5 minute walk to work/market/gym/park, etc...

      At the same time, I like living 2 hours away from a major metro and having land, garages, cars, etc... As long as I don't need to make that trip very often.

      But say I did-- I'd much rather a high speed rail take me to LA /SF / LV /SD than waste time driving or deal with a combination of airlines, connections, and rental cars. I could spend that commute time working, reading email, conference calling, etc...

      There's no "trying" to justify any of it- it's all a balance of preference and necessity. Don't poo poo it just because it doesn't suit your needs.
      All of this.

      And listening to some of you who live in urban areas... damn. I did not realize the semi-urban regional transit agency I work for has better service times than your urban/suburban "real" transit agencies. Our SLOWEST service interval is an hour, and those are intercity runs in the Southeast...
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    13. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 11:01 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by PsyberVW View Post
      Nothing good infrastructure couldn't solve: such as rural light rail and bus routes.

      Urban living may not be your choice, but it's not right to say it lacks freedom. More choices, more options, certainly aren't infringing on freedom.

      I've lived in all sorts of areas and I'll be the first in line for an over-priced shoebox if it means a 5 minute walk to work/market/gym/park, etc...

      At the same time, I like living 2 hours away from a major metro and having land, garages, cars, etc... As long as I don't need to make that trip very often.

      But say I did-- I'd much rather a high speed rail take me to LA /SF / LV /SD than waste time driving or deal with a combination of airlines, connections, and rental cars. I could spend that commute time working, reading email, conference calling, etc...

      There's no "trying" to justify any of it- it's all a balance of preference and necessity. Don't poo poo it just because it doesn't suit your needs.
      I commute an hour each way, and I'll tell you it sucks, but I've also lived closer to work, and that area sucks far more. The houses are older, and thus much less liveable, they are more expensive, there are fewer local places and more chain places/strip malls, traffic is terrible, and quite frankly, I'll say it, the ethnic diversity there sucks. I'm willing to sacrifice a "5 minute walk" to all sorts of places to live in a house I love and an area I like. I don't have to live in some dumpy split level with tiny closets and a 50y/o kitchen (or pay $500-700k for a house comparable to my $300k one). And my knee-jerk reaction against "more freedom" is because I'm sick of the "enlightened" telling me I'd be happier living on top of my neighbors and walking everywhere (which sucks in Chicago as its always either 100* or 30*) when I've played that game, found out I rarely bothered to walk to any of the local places, and I hated living in a condo with other people's rules and lives intruding on my own.

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      10-07-2012 11:23 PM #89
      I lived through gas rationing as a kid and it was dreadful. imagine waiting hours in line just to guy a short amount of fuel at limited hours. If it happened again, it would force people into alternatives:


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      10-07-2012 11:28 PM #90
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      10-08-2012 01:11 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      I commute an hour each way, and I'll tell you it sucks, but I've also lived closer to work, and that area sucks far more. The houses are older, and thus much less liveable, they are more expensive, there are fewer local places and more chain places/strip malls, traffic is terrible, and quite frankly, I'll say it, the ethnic diversity there sucks. I'm willing to sacrifice a "5 minute walk" to all sorts of places to live in a house I love and an area I like. I don't have to live in some dumpy split level with tiny closets and a 50y/o kitchen (or pay $500-700k for a house comparable to my $300k one). And my knee-jerk reaction against "more freedom" is because I'm sick of the "enlightened" telling me I'd be happier living on top of my neighbors and walking everywhere (which sucks in Chicago as its always either 100* or 30*) when I've played that game, found out I rarely bothered to walk to any of the local places, and I hated living in a condo with other people's rules and lives intruding on my own.
      Dude, you need a motorhome!

      As much hate as the Detroit area some times gets... there are many things about it that make it quite nice. Mainly...
      1) You can get some serious homes for less than $400k. Granted, they aren't going to put them in architectural magazines, but they're far better than the $500, 600, 700k places you speak of around Chicago... or DC or LA or etc.
      2) The traffic is not that bad... compared to the stuff I've witnessed around Chicago, DC, Houston, LA, etc.

      BTW... it doesn't matter where you are, because generally if you are in some newer (nicer) hood... be it condo or house... there is some aSSociation of Nazis pushing beige or how tall the grass is.

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      10-08-2012 01:33 PM #92
      I am 7 miles from work, and have a bus transit pass given to me. The bus takes me 18 minutes to get to work, and the stop is 1/2 mile from my house, which is about a 5 minute walk. I used to use transit a lot, but I have grown lazy...I added up the gas I am using my driving my Ford Ranger, and I am over $150 a month in fuel alone. I need to get back on the bus. It is plenty convenient, and I find that the 8am and 5pm crowd is usually business people or students.

      I want to ride my bike to work, but again, I am lazy...I think for me it is just going to be getting off my butt more than anything. Obviously I *can afford to drive, but I think at some point, the question is going to be do I *want to spend that money on fuel, or do I want to do something more ueful with it.
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      10-08-2012 01:50 PM #93
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      10-08-2012 01:54 PM #94
      I use whatever is most convenient/fun at the time. So if public transportation makes sense, I use it. If taking the car makes sense, I drive. If riding my bike makes sense, I do that. Whatever works for the time and place is what I use.

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      10-08-2012 01:59 PM #95
      No car? never

      Get rid of my car for commuting? Quick, clean, and affordable public transit. I used to do that when I lived in NorCal. Amtrak California was great.

      In the IE? I checked. It would take 2 hours, multiple transfers, and significant walking (try walking in a suit when it is 110) to get to work. Takes me 15min to drive. It would also likely cost more (though maybe not with $5 gas). F that.
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      10-08-2012 02:04 PM #96
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      10-08-2012 09:46 PM #97
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      10-08-2012 10:55 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      BTW... it doesn't matter where you are, because generally if you are in some newer (nicer) hood... be it condo or house... there is some aSSociation of Nazis pushing beige or how tall the grass is.
      So true, glad to live in an older neighborhood without one.

    24. 10-08-2012 11:08 PM #99
      There's no way I could give my car up.

      I live downtown, but I work in a suburban business park, and the busses only run there at certain hours...meaning if i'm working an odd shift, I could get abandoned at work, or not be able to get there. This on top of the fact that my commute is 20 minutes by car... but would be 1 hour by bus.

      Ottawa has the most expensive public transit in Canada, ($3.30 cash), meaning it would cost more to take the bus than it costs me in 91 Octane gas. Of course, I'd save if i got a pass, and the bus is cheaper than gas AND insurance, but, what's 80 minutes of each day worth?

      This is all on top of the fact that my parents and some good friends live in the country, and I go to see them every week. I'd literally have to stop visiting my parents (and start paying for laundry!).
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      10-09-2012 12:17 AM #100
      If the local bus is reliable and takes me where I need to be, without me having to be at the mercy of the bus schedule, sure. But if I have to rotate my school/work schedule to catch a bus, then hell no. Last time I used a bus it made me an hour late to work. Same commute in my car takes 1/2 to 1/3rd the time.

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