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    Thread: What will be the car power source of the future?

    1. Member G0to60's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 05:05 PM #51
      Yes but exhaust gases can be cleaned and batteries can be nearly completely recycled.

      Also there's the marketing of nuclear fuel for transport. Regardless of how safe it is people will see Chernobyl and Fukushima at the first mention of it.

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      10-05-2012 05:33 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by FACTORYBOOST View Post
      The nuclear they are proposing isn't even remotely as harmful as using Uranium ore. The Thorium doesn't produce gamma radiation (or very little) and it doesn't produce as much nuclear waste as the Uranium Fission reactor. Also, while you basically need to bury a Uranium reactor to protect from the radiation, the beta radiation from a Thorium reactor can be stopped by sheet metal basically. Beta radiation is an actual particle as opposed to the energy waves of gamma radiation.
      Also very important to note that it is impossible for a LFTR to experience failures like what we have seen at Fukushima, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, etc. The reaction cannot run out of control.

      The Thorium fuel is one of the most plentiful elements found on Earth. Smaller, neighborhood reactors are easily feasible, simplifying the grid. The reaction is also much more thorough than our current fission reactors, leaving significantly less spent waste that is much easier and safer to maintain.

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      10-05-2012 05:38 PM #53
      Great resources to learn about Thorium reactors:


      http://energyfromthorium.com/

      A TED talk regarding Thorium power

    4. 10-05-2012 05:38 PM #54
      Self charging batteries through wind force.

    5. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 05:39 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Preppy View Post
      I think the generation of hydrogen through electrolysis could be facilitated by more enviro friendly means 20 years from now? Say tidal, solar, wind...?
      There's been no radical improvements in energy generation since nuclear power was commercialized some 55+ years ago. Why anyone thinks we'll suddenly have massive amounts of cheap energy in another 20 years is beyond me. If anything, energy costs are going UP in real terms. Most people just don't notice it because so many things that consume energy are becoming much more efficient. If anything, I would bet that energy costs, adjusted for inflation, will be at least 50% higher in 20 years, if not double what they are today. This is due to the political and environmental impact of coal and nuclear fuel use, which are our cheapest energy sources today. Natural gas is the most logical stop-gap fuel, but in 50-100 years we'll have to be on almost entirely renewable energy which means likely another 2 to 4x increase in the real cost of energy production relative to today's costs.

    6. 10-05-2012 06:02 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      There's been no radical improvements in energy generation since nuclear power was commercialized some 55+ years ago. Why anyone thinks we'll suddenly have massive amounts of cheap energy in another 20 years is beyond me. If anything, energy costs are going UP in real terms. .

      For example, NYC per capita electrical demand went from just over 2,000 kWh to just under 8,000 kWh (with a pop increase from 7.781M to 8.214M). That's a lot of power, and solar/wind/wishing won't fill the demand.http://www.nae.edu/Publications/Brid...aResource.aspx

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      10-05-2012 06:33 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      There's been no radical improvements in energy generation since nuclear power was commercialized some 55+ years ago. Why anyone thinks we'll suddenly have massive amounts of cheap energy in another 20 years is beyond me. If anything, energy costs are going UP in real terms. Most people just don't notice it because so many things that consume energy are becoming much more efficient. If anything, I would bet that energy costs, adjusted for inflation, will be at least 50% higher in 20 years, if not double what they are today. This is due to the political and environmental impact of coal and nuclear fuel use, which are our cheapest energy sources today. Natural gas is the most logical stop-gap fuel, but in 50-100 years we'll have to be on almost entirely renewable energy which means likely another 2 to 4x increase in the real cost of energy production relative to today's costs.


      our current Nuclear infrastructure was built specifically because there was a military use for a small portion of the waste (PU-239). Thorium does not produce PU-239 as a byproduct, and thus is of no use to the military.

      While Thorium isn't a "new improvement" in energy generation, it is an important option to review. There is significant potential in this technology, with very low risks when compared to hydroelectric, conventional uranium based fission, and hydrocarbon energy generation.


      reference: http://csis.org/blog/thorium-and-its...nproliferation

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      10-05-2012 06:44 PM #58
      I finished my mechanical engineering degree about ten years ago. As an upperclassman I chose to focus on alternative fuels and advanced technology vehicles.

      I will never forget what one of my professors once said in 2002: "Hydrogen is the fuel of the future, and always will be".

      That was ten years ago and he's still correct as of now.

    9. 10-05-2012 07:08 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
      I will never forget what one of my professors once said in 2002: "Hydrogen is the fuel of the future, and always will be".That was ten years ago and he's still correct as of now.
      It's an old line, and is as correct as when I first heard it (the 70s) as today...

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      10-05-2012 07:24 PM #60
      I think we may possibly make our way into sustainable biodiesel. Currently we have only a few ways to produce it, but it's not feasible due to the high amount of land/water it takes to farm the oil required. Algae/Microalgae has a high operational/capital for the amount of oil it yields when cultivated, but we are progressing to more efficient algae growing factors. So while technically not solar, we may still use the (free)sunlight to our advantage in basically growing our own biofuel.

      That, and the fact that we have some pretty good mpg from current diesel engines while still operating within emissions laws, i think that it is a big possibility.

    11. Banned caddy 2 dope's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 01:19 AM #61

    12. Banned caddy 2 dope's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 01:56 AM #62
      This is a great clip, but do watch the entire gashole doc if you can.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vJe...e_gdata_player


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      10-06-2012 02:25 AM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by zhenya00 View Post
      I think it will be electric with batteries, much like we are moving towards today. 20 years is not all that long in the car industry, so the wheels are already in motion, so to speak.
      For electric cars, absolutely. And yeah, 20 years is not that long. It hasn't even been 20 years since the GM EV1 and electric cars are still in their infancy.


      Quote Originally Posted by SirSpectre View Post
      Cars of the future won't have batteries. There have been some huge advancements recently in Ultra capacitors. These are devices that can hold 1000x more power in a given space than batteries and charge instantly, and energy density about the same as batteries. The problem being right now, is the length of time they hold the charge. Right now they can get it hold for about 5 minutes I see once those come up to a week, we'll start seeing them in cars. Not likely for 40-50 years I bet though.

      VAG, Tesla, and Ford have been doing tests with them in various technologies, including battery/cap setup, gas-hybrid/cap setups for storage and regen braking, and diesel setup like the Chevy Volt. not quite there yet.
      I'd like to see this realized. If they're small enough and can hold a charge for a few hours, it could be part of the solution for quick charging. Give a quick charge to the capacitors in the car and let it bleed the charge into the batteries.
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

    14. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 02:49 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by FACTORYBOOST View Post
      Honestly, I think we will see a rise in alternative combustibles e.g. bio-fuels, ethanol from corn and sugar cane, that sort of stuff.
      There isn't enough useful agricultural surface area out there to cover our energy needs - not even those just for transportation, by a long shot. Ethanol from corn is a horrible idea, because it is barely CO_2 emissions neutral, if at all.

      Growing switchgrass etc. on areas that currently can't be used for agriculture makes some sense, so do algae-based processes.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    15. Member FACTORYBOOST's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 09:51 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      There isn't enough useful agricultural surface area out there to cover our energy needs - not even those just for transportation, by a long shot. Ethanol from corn is a horrible idea, because it is barely CO_2 emissions neutral, if at all.

      Growing switchgrass etc. on areas that currently can't be used for agriculture makes some sense, so do algae-based processes.
      I haven't really done much research on the subject in all honestly, at least concerning growth and yield and all that, but the algae did seem to be the most plausible because you can just have giant tanks that make lots o' green!
      But it would require diesel engines of a sort, which I'm perfectly fine with.
      Quote Originally Posted by emmettlodge View Post
      I said dance bitch. Dance.

    16. Member Slipstream's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 10:33 AM #67
      Two pages and nobody has fired up the TurbioDiesel! signal?
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      The motto of TCL should be: If you build it, we will consider it. Used. In a few years.

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      10-08-2012 11:15 AM #68
      POO POWER FTW!!!!!



      Opting for unconventional business ideas has always been appealing. To be precise, coming with something out of the box have always grabbed attention. Same is the case with Japan’s ace toilet maker, Toto Ltd, as the company has come up with something different in its own domain. The Japanese firm recently unveiled an interesting poop-powered motorcycle in a Fujisawa showroom.


      The motorcycle, to run on excrement, can actually travel as far as 300 kilometers with the tank fully loaded with animal waste. The motorcycle, being advertised as the maiden waste-powered vehicle, has been a project since 2009 and has been christened Toilet Bike Neo. The most interesting feature of the three-wheeler is the placement of the tank. The place of regular seat has been replaced with a toilet along with a huge paper roll at the back of it.

      But if you’re thinking that the 250cc trike, Toilet Bike Neo, would run on its riders’ waste, my friend you certainly have mistaken. The machine simply runs on livestock waste or waste water. Talking to a few reporters in a Tokyo suburb, Toto Ltd’s spokesperson, Kenji Fujita confirmed it by saying,

      “The biogas it uses as fuel is not made from human waste. It’s made from livestock waste and sewage.”

      Now a question must have risen in your mind, why did Toto induced a toilet-derived seat then. Well! It’s just because of the prospective publicity that the company would gain that it has been featured.
      XBL B0B_MARLEY_MAR - The "0" in Bob is a zero

    18. 10-08-2012 11:33 AM #69
      I think it will be water

    19. Member FACTORYBOOST's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 12:05 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Slipstream View Post
      Two pages and nobody has fired up the TurbioDiesel! signal?
      My main suggestion is basically a Turbo Diesel with a biodiesel (algae)
      Quote Originally Posted by emmettlodge View Post
      I said dance bitch. Dance.

    20. 10-08-2012 12:25 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      Unfortunately this makes no economic sense. The filling station has to keep 20-50 batteries lying around to charge up, each costing thousands of dollars, but when the customer comes in, they are only buying a few dollars worth of electricity. Secondly, lithium ion batteries in cars are very hard to take in and out, even if they are built for the purpose of a quick switch. (many connections and safety issues). I won't go into details, but I looked long and hard at this when "Project Better Life" started the idea. It doesn't work.

      That said, electricity is the right answer... see my next post.
      http://www.betterplace.com/How-it-Wo...witch-stations

    21. Banned TheGreenspanator's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 01:25 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by Preppy View Post
      what will be the souce?
      Hippies

    22. Member Klim18's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 01:26 PM #73
      dead baby fetuses
      "As anyone who has ever tinkered with an old BMW engine or looked out on to the wing of a jet can attest, pure response to engineering requirements can sometimes deliver just as much pleasure as a more intentionally aesthetic design process."

    23. Member
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      10-08-2012 08:10 PM #74
      I am not sure if you post that link in support of the battery-switching concept or as a confirmation that it is hard to execute on. In a country like Israel, the Better Place concept (battery switching) might work, if your electricity rates are very very high, you can control car manufacturing, and your driving distances are less. For most of the world, the problem is still that you have to get auto makers to standardize batteries, wiring connections location, sizes, etc. Unfortunately, that is a great fantasy but is not going to happen in a world where storage technology is moving too fast to "lock in" any particular form factor. You will note that as you drill into their website, the only thing they have to offer now is traditional charging stations. Then when you really look at this part of the website:

      http://www.betterplace.com/How-it-Wo...tch-stations/2

      ...you will start to realize just how difficult it will be unless one manufacturer coordinates with Better Place, and you can see that will be far into the future before we can make their "battery switching" model make sense. Of course, this is just my opinion, I'm sure many smarter people than me will look for ways to reduce the "friction" in the system.

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      10-08-2012 08:33 PM #75
      cats
      Free 1SICKLEX

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