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    Thread: Dealer warned against stage 1 flash

    1. Member luvadubdub's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 07:36 PM #1
      So I was playing on going with an APR stage 1 or 1+ flash and in talking with my dealer, they warned me they have already seen a customers R flagged by VW's diagnostic equipment. I had talked with Arin at APR and he assured me we were undetectable but now I'm torn. I'm not willing to give up part of my warranty on a daily driver. I'm not looking to hear "they'd have to prove the flash caused the problem". It's not worth the hassle if thesis the case. Anyone else run into this?
      '13 Golf R 4 door - Rising Blue | OEM LED Tails | VWR Springs | APR Carbonio Intake | HPA Core Interlock Mount | VWR Short Shifter | 18" BBS CO |
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      Previous: | '88 Jetta | '91 Corrado G60 | '96 BMW 318ti | '97 GTI VR6 | '01 Jetta 1.8T | '06 RSX Type-S | '07 Audi A3 2.0T |

    2. 10-05-2012 07:39 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by luvadubdub View Post
      So I was playing on going with an APR stage 1 or 1+ flash and in talking with my dealer, they warned me they have already seen a customers R flagged by VW's diagnostic equipment. I had talked with Arin at APR and he assured me we were undetectable but now I'm torn. I'm not willing to give up part of my warranty on a daily driver. I'm not looking to hear "they'd have to prove the flash caused the problem". It's not worth the hassle if thesis the case. Anyone else run into this?
      find a mod friendly dealer and u will be okay, i had vw put on my full forge scorpion exhaust n BSH R.P INTAKE. IM REVO STG2PLUS

    3. Member DaLeadBull's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 07:40 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by luvadubdub View Post
      So I was playing on going with an APR stage 1 or 1+ flash and in talking with my dealer, they warned me they have already seen a customers R flagged by VW's diagnostic equipment. I had talked with Arin at APR and he assured me we were undetectable but now I'm torn. I'm not willing to give up part of my warranty on a daily driver. I'm not looking to hear "they'd have to prove the flash caused the problem". It's not worth the hassle if thesis the case. Anyone else run into this?
      I doubt Arin told you it was undetectable.

      Your dealer sounds like a douche, go to another one for service.

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      10-05-2012 07:44 PM #4
      No way its undetectable...

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      10-05-2012 08:10 PM #5
      I think you misunderstood Arin.....There's no way he told you it was "undetectable"...Even if you flashed the car back to stock, the VAG equipment would be able to detect that the ECU has been flashed and the number of times it has been flashed.

      Your best bet is to deal with a mod friendly dealer......

      Also, I've heard that the service advisors do not earn commission when you bring your car in for it's free service. I either give them $40.00 cash and say, "lunch is on me" or I'll ask them what they like on their pizza and order a few large ones for delivery....

      You'd be surprised at what $40.00 cash and/or a few large pizzas gets you, in regards to respect and treatment. Goes a long way in establishing that you're at least considerate and appreciate them.

      Scott
      2012 Golf R APR Stage 3 [forged internals, APR ported head, balance shaft delete, APR LPFP] (11.141 @ 128.70 mph)
      2013 Audi Q5 3.0T S-Line APR Stage 2+ (12.637 @ 107.63 mph on 93 tune) SOLD
      2014 Golf TDI 6spd man APR Tune. 40+ mpg avg Best tank = 54.5 mpg @ 741 miles

    6. Member GenMan's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 08:20 PM #6
      The older ECM's that are .:R uses do not throw a TD1 code like the newer Audi's or VW's do.

    7. Member luvadubdub's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 08:49 PM #7
      It's not the dealer that has the issue. They are actually a GIAC dealer. They were just being upfront that VW is now flagging cars in for service.
      '13 Golf R 4 door - Rising Blue | OEM LED Tails | VWR Springs | APR Carbonio Intake | HPA Core Interlock Mount | VWR Short Shifter | 18" BBS CO |
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      10-05-2012 09:09 PM #8
      I wouldn't believe everything a dealer says.

    9. Member RBGolfR's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 09:38 PM #9
      My dealer said the same thing... He also told me that when I chipped my MKV GTI, and he never gave me any issues in warranty claims. But who knows.... There is a first time for everything .

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      10-05-2012 09:55 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by GenMan View Post
      The older ECM's that are .:R uses do not throw a TD1 code like the newer Audi's or VW's do.
      Where did you hear / see this info?

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      10-05-2012 11:35 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by LazyLightning View Post
      Where did you hear / see this info?
      It's been posted around here quite a few times. Definitely true. Our cars have an older ECU that does not "flag" itself like that, but that doesn't mean they can't tell that you're tuned. As others have said, there is probably a flash counter.

    12. Member KPgolfR's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 02:16 AM #12
      golf r do have the old ecu and can not be auto flagged like the newer audi/vw's .. told by 2 different vw dealers who are mod friendly.. also have been to the dealer on 4 different occasions and i still get things done under warranty.

      Been apr stage 2 plus for 7 months

    13. 10-06-2012 02:40 AM #13
      Probably just giving you the "cover their ass" disclaimer. You will be fine with a flash. My sales guy still texts me to ask what I have done to my R recently ha ha ha they LOVE when I bring my car in. Everyone stops working and comes over. ha ha Vdub Lub
      2012 Candy White R.... with STUFF :-)

    14. 10-06-2012 06:23 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by luvadubdub View Post
      So I was playing on going with an APR stage 1 or 1+ flash and in talking with my dealer, they warned me they have already seen a customers R flagged by VW's diagnostic equipment. I had talked with Arin at APR and he assured me we were undetectable but now I'm torn. I'm not willing to give up part of my warranty on a daily driver. I'm not looking to hear "they'd have to prove the flash caused the problem". It's not worth the hassle if thesis the case. Anyone else run into this?
      Unless you upgrade your R it you are going to be driving a pretty lame car every day for several years. Was it worth paying $40k+ for that kind of experience?

      Also, since you are on Canadian gas you might want to look at HPA. Their tune is adjusted for Canadian gas.

    15. Member luvadubdub's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 10:23 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by BC R View Post
      Unless you upgrade your R it you are going to be driving a pretty lame car every day for several years. Was it worth paying $40k+ for that kind of experience?

      Also, since you are on Canadian gas you might want to look at HPA. Their tune is adjusted for Canadian gas.
      Sure I'd love more power... do I find the stock car lame? Not at all.
      '13 Golf R 4 door - Rising Blue | OEM LED Tails | VWR Springs | APR Carbonio Intake | HPA Core Interlock Mount | VWR Short Shifter | 18" BBS CO |
      | Monster Mats | CarGo Liner | SS Seat Riser Inserts | Aluminum Look Glove Box Handle |
      Previous: | '88 Jetta | '91 Corrado G60 | '96 BMW 318ti | '97 GTI VR6 | '01 Jetta 1.8T | '06 RSX Type-S | '07 Audi A3 2.0T |

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      10-06-2012 10:44 AM #16
      I couldn't have lived with the car for very long if I had to keep it stock. Way too much money to have a car slower than my Hyundai.
      2012 Golf R APR Stage 3 [forged internals, APR ported head, balance shaft delete, APR LPFP] (11.141 @ 128.70 mph)
      2013 Audi Q5 3.0T S-Line APR Stage 2+ (12.637 @ 107.63 mph on 93 tune) SOLD
      2014 Golf TDI 6spd man APR Tune. 40+ mpg avg Best tank = 54.5 mpg @ 741 miles

    17. Member GenMan's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 01:35 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by LazyLightning View Post
      Where did you hear / see this info?
      Chris from Revo and Arin from APR have both told me.

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      10-06-2012 02:05 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by BC R View Post
      Unless you upgrade your R it you are going to be driving a pretty lame car every day for several years. Was it worth paying $40k+ for that kind of experience?
      That seems a little over the top.

    19. Member 1.8turboB5's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 02:09 PM #19
      Even if it did get Flagged, which is doesnt, it doesnt void your warranty it simply gives the dealer a more specific list of parts that may not be warrantied depending on the situation and/or recalls/TSBs issued.
      2013 CW Golf [R] 4dr / GIAC Stage 1 93oct / Evolution Motorsport CAI / B&G Coilovers / 18x8 et41 Polished Interlagos

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    20. Banned ThatVdub's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 02:09 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by scottisha View Post
      I couldn't have lived with the car for very long if I had to keep it stock. Way too much money to have a car slower than my Hyundai.
      Honest to God, I refuse to drive it stock, it's miserable to me. Hoping stage 2+ will cure that.

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      10-06-2012 02:25 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by ThatVdub View Post
      Honest to God, I refuse to drive it stock, it's miserable to me. Hoping stage 2+ will cure that.
      Stage 2+ will put a nice smile on your face. I'll be in jax 26-27 of this month to visit my brother

    22. 10-06-2012 04:05 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by luvadubdub View Post
      Sure I'd love more power... do I find the stock car lame? Not at all.
      Well coming from a TDI that was priced $10k less that sure left me wondering. Even more puzzling was insurance company labeling it a "sports car" and demanding three times more for collision insurance. The only difference from a TDI was lack of front wheel spin and longer power band. But as for acceleration it was basically the same stock as stock TDI which is a daily driver for people obsessed with fuel economy. Pretty lame result for a "sports car" if you ask me.

      Now with HPA Haldex controller and power upgrades flooring it in a corner is no TDI. A few more upgrades like LSD and good tires and this thing will be insane (as in is requiring insane driver to get to the limits of its capability).

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      10-06-2012 04:22 PM #23
      My dealer said an APR tune would be fine before I even bought the car. When I had my Audi they did an APR tune at the dealership like it was SOP. I would go to a different dealer.

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      10-06-2012 06:07 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by GenMan View Post
      Chris from Revo and Arin from APR have both told me.
      Cool - good to know! I know they can probably count flashes if they want to, but I like the fact the ECM can't throw the code...

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      10-06-2012 06:19 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by BC R View Post
      Unless you upgrade your R it you are going to be driving a pretty lame car every day for several years. Was it worth paying $40k+ for that kind of experience?
      Another angle though: would you wanna pay ~$40k for a car when the dealer doesn't automatically fix anything that goes wrong, no questions asked, no hassles? This is a concern for me. Not having to pay anything out of pocket for repairs (and not having to fight to get stuff done on the manufacturer's tab) is a big part of why I pony up the dough for a new ride rather than drive, say, a 1988 M5.

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      10-06-2012 07:53 PM #26
      My dealer actually recommended an APR flash when I bought it, but they wanted to charge another $100+ for labor just to do the flash itself

      You just need to go to a different dealer man!

    27. 10-06-2012 08:47 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by LazyLightning View Post
      Another angle though: would you wanna pay ~$40k for a car when the dealer doesn't automatically fix anything that goes wrong, no questions asked, no hassles? This is a concern for me. Not having to pay anything out of pocket for repairs (and not having to fight to get stuff done on the manufacturer's tab) is a big part of why I pony up the dough for a new ride rather than drive, say, a 1988 M5.
      Yes, whatever breaks you replace it with better parts and not at a dealer.

    28. Member luvadubdub's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 10:02 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by BC R View Post
      Yes, whatever breaks you replace it with better parts and not at a dealer.
      Until its an engine or tranny.
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    29. 10-07-2012 12:03 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by luvadubdub View Post
      Until its an engine or tranny.
      I am planning to break open my tranny way sooner than it breaks. Some parts are already being shipped, other I am still looking for.

      As for engine- while I like the older engine there are other options that I would consider if I had a choice. Having said that- if my engine breaks I will be pissed at me, not at VW, whether they fix it or not. I should not have purchased another VW after the experience I had with VW related to my TDI.

      By the way, why would your tranny break? Clutch- yes, but I don't think there is much to worry about with the tranny.

    30. Member luvadubdub's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 01:26 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by BC R View Post
      I am planning to break open my tranny way sooner than it breaks. Some parts are already being shipped, other I am still looking for.

      As for engine- while I like the older engine there are other options that I would consider if I had a choice. Having said that- if my engine breaks I will be pissed at me, not at VW, whether they fix it or not. I should not have purchased another VW after the experience I had with VW related to my TDI.

      By the way, why would your tranny break? Clutch- yes, but I don't think there is much to worry about with the tranny.
      That's my point. Shouldn't... but you never know... and I don't feel like fighting for coverage.
      '13 Golf R 4 door - Rising Blue | OEM LED Tails | VWR Springs | APR Carbonio Intake | HPA Core Interlock Mount | VWR Short Shifter | 18" BBS CO |
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      10-07-2012 01:58 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by HandyBanana View Post
      My dealer actually recommended an APR flash when I bought it, but they wanted to charge another $100+ for labor just to do the flash itself

      You just need to go to a different dealer man!
      What dealer do you use? I go to Jack Daniels in Fairlawn and they charged me $100 for labor on the APR flash.
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      10-07-2012 02:05 AM #32
      lol, the only way your warranty would be voided is if a part failed that was directly related to being flashed. parts that are going to wear out regardless will theoretically wear faster due to a flash but your warranty prob wouldnt cover those anyway. if they are going to deny basic warranty service like oil changes and non engine related things they are just being douches and you should go to a different dealer. or become buddies with your service advisor/ tech.
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      10-07-2012 11:14 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Nucci USMC View Post
      What dealer do you use? I go to Jack Daniels in Fairlawn and they charged me $100 for labor on the APR flash.

      Same one.

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      10-07-2012 12:17 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by BC R View Post
      I am planning to break open my tranny way sooner than it breaks. Some parts are already being shipped, other I am still looking for.
      You getting a taller 6th? One from a GTi? Interested to hear details and results if so.
      "Of course, but I can also downill ski and figure skate..."

    35. 10-09-2012 12:12 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by View Post
      You getting a taller 6th? One from a GTi? Interested to hear details and results if so.
      Hoping for 5th and 6th. I fact I would spread out all of them if I could, but without touching the 1st. Still trying to find gears though. The other two related upgrades are easier to source- front LSD and clutch.

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