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    Thread: 225 power concerns in Denver

    1. 10-06-2012 03:54 PM #1
      Hello,
      I bought my 225 in May in Houston and have worked there until last week. It has about 108k miles and was maintained religiously by the previous owner. The car rides and drives like it has 50k miles. Since I bought it, I installed new plugs, new stock DV, air filter and a new ecu with an APR 93 program. There was relateively moderate lag and the turbo would hit hard. I finally returned to Denver last week and my car has lost a lot of power. I had time to install a boot gauge and am getting a steady climb to 18 psi with a decline to 15 by redline. Since I could not tell what it was in Houston, I am at a loss. The car has a LOT more lag and I am not happy with the performance level. I am going to do a boost leak check this week but do not know what the APR boost levels should be. I suspect I also need a new program for 91 octane but do not know how much that would cost to change over. I also assume the car would perform much better with a turbo back and intake. Is there anyone in Denver that could help me log the car to see if the program will work before I go buy another or if there is a tuning shop in Denver that could take care of this accurately and for a reasonable cost? I want to make sure the systems are working properly before I blow money on parts. Thanks for your advice.
      sigfrid
      Last edited by SigfridR; 10-06-2012 at 04:07 PM.

    2. Member
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      10-06-2012 04:18 PM #2
      Is there an altitude difference between the two locations?

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      10-06-2012 04:33 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Kacz07 View Post
      Is there an altitude difference between the two locations?
      a bit:

      denver = mile high city

      houston = couple of feet above sea level.
      You don't own a TT, you support it: 2001 LZ7W coupe; REVO chip; Forge hoses and DV relo; MadMax DV; Modshack VTDA; BlueFlame Catback, OSIR corners, Forge bling, H&R, Bilsteins, DEFCON2, 986 seats, 18in OZ Vela II; OEM TTQS alcantara steering wheel, knob, ebrake; OEM: BBS RS IIs; roof rack; trunk rack; phone bracket; trunk mat; all weather floor mats; 4-piece Votex kit. My Mods and Primer Porn here: http://public.fotki.com/TTQ2K2/.

    4. Member Forty-six and 2's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 04:46 PM #4
      Welcome to Colorado!

      There is a 4% hp loss per 1000ft above sea level. I am about an hour south of Denver, in Colorado Springs, and we are between 5,600-6,400ft throughout the city. I bought both of my Corrado's from cities at sea level, and both were awful once I got them back here.
      Drive lowpark lower



      .:46and2:.

    5. 10-06-2012 07:40 PM #5
      Less O2 in Denver is a REAL factor. The restrictions in your system (intake/exhaust) will be amplified at altitude because of the less combustible conditions. When I lived in Denver, Audi was doing a lot of their turbo testing at high altitudes. The thought being "if they can perform there, hey can perform anywhere." True story.

    6. 10-06-2012 09:26 PM #6
      I've been from Houston to Denver for the past 6 years. My first move was with my Evo and I did not feel such a power loss. And trust me, I suck as a butt dyno, so this is somewhat troublesome.
      It took me a few days to feel the difference between the stock ECU and the APR tune in Houston so why would I feel such a differnece in the spool up?
      Is 18 psi tapering to 15 by redline normal for the APR tune or should I seriously look at the system for leaks?
      I know the 93 octane tune is not helping me and that is why I wish I could find someone local to help me log the sucker and determine if I am pulling timing.
      If no one is able to do so, could I just run some race gas and see if that makes a huge difference. If it does, then my tune is in question?
      I might put my stock ECU back in since this is a San Diego car and made to run on 91. Would that give me some idea as to the tune? Of course I would have to pull my cluster out and put my non working stock one back in so I don't get check engine lights and what not.
      Is my logic off?
      I am trying to minimize expenditures so that I can afford my exhaust and intake. Boy do I like the 42 draft design stuff........but it aint cheap.

      Thanks in advance for assistance.

      Sigfrid
      Last edited by SigfridR; 10-06-2012 at 09:29 PM. Reason: spelling adjust

    7. Member Forty-six and 2's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 09:56 PM #7
      There are a handful of APR dealers in the Denver area. Do a quick search on goapr.com to figure out which one is closest to you.
      Drive lowpark lower



      .:46and2:.

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      10-06-2012 11:30 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by SigfridR View Post
      I've been from Houston to Denver for the past 6 years. My first move was with my Evo and I did not feel such a power loss. And trust me, I suck as a butt dyno, so this is somewhat troublesome.
      It took me a few days to feel the difference between the stock ECU and the APR tune in Houston so why would I feel such a differnece in the spool up?
      Is 18 psi tapering to 15 by redline normal for the APR tune or should I seriously look at the system for leaks?
      I know the 93 octane tune is not helping me and that is why I wish I could find someone local to help me log the sucker and determine if I am pulling timing.
      If no one is able to do so, could I just run some race gas and see if that makes a huge difference. If it does, then my tune is in question?
      I might put my stock ECU back in since this is a San Diego car and made to run on 91. Would that give me some idea as to the tune? Of course I would have to pull my cluster out and put my non working stock one back in so I don't get check engine lights and what not.
      Is my logic off?
      I am trying to minimize expenditures so that I can afford my exhaust and intake. Boy do I like the 42 draft design stuff........but it aint cheap.

      Thanks in advance for assistance.

      Sigfrid
      Sounds even worse, you should be boosting 21-23 psi and settling around 20!

      Can you expand on why you would have to swap back in your stock broken cluster?

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      10-07-2012 12:14 AM #9
      You said you have the Stock DV. Even new it will not hold and most likely giving up the Boost the APR program dials up. It was the same with mine. It was slow to build and would fall hard after about 5000 r's. Open the windows and listen to the turbo. If you don't here a whistle and more of an airy whoosh your DV is not holding I suggest the Mad Max DV and the new trick with the spring to help along the Wastegate. Check your lines however. With the mentioned mods the car is transformed and I have the stock exhaust.

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      10-07-2012 12:20 AM #10
      Really if you are trying to do this on a budget the Intake is not worth it in my opinion. Rather by a K&N Flat panel and Open up with a Dremel tool your air box. I did this then bought a TTDA and really cannot tell any difference. eBay for the down pipe. I live in KC and they do not sniff and you can get by without cats. Bought a take off Y pipe with cats. Had the cats cut off and replace with pipes. Still don not have it on yet but I would bet it will help some. Save some money dude!

    11. 10-07-2012 01:35 AM #11
      I have the immobilizer defeated on my APR ecu and bought a different gauge cluster since my tach was not working. If I swap the stock ecu back, the cluster will not be recognized I guess and I will have issues. No big deal though.
      From the latest replies, I think I have a boost issue if I peak at 18. Sounds like I am missing a bunch of boost so maybe I have leaks and maybe my turbo has had enough after 108k miles.
      I will do the boost leak test first and make sure all is working well.
      Does slapping on the stock ecu or running higher octane fuel sound like a good way to figure out things after the boost test to you guys?
      Thanks again for everyone's help. I will post up after the boost leak test.

      Sigfrid

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      10-07-2012 01:55 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by SigfridR View Post
      I have the immobilizer defeated on my APR ecu and bought a different gauge cluster since my tach was not working. If I swap the stock ecu back, the cluster will not be recognized I guess and I will have issues. No big deal though.
      From the latest replies, I think I have a boost issue if I peak at 18. Sounds like I am missing a bunch of boost so maybe I have leaks and maybe my turbo has had enough after 108k miles.
      I will do the boost leak test first and make sure all is working well.
      Does slapping on the stock ecu or running higher octane fuel sound like a good way to figure out things after the boost test to you guys?
      Thanks again for everyone's help. I will post up after the boost leak test.

      Sigfrid
      The higher octane is a waste of money.

      Boost test definetly.

      For the stock DV I've heard it debated either way, some say the 710N works fine with a tune previous debate: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...V-is-it-enough

      Let us know how the boost leak test goes.
      Last edited by toy4two2; 10-07-2012 at 02:23 PM.

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      10-07-2012 03:38 PM #13
      brought my 225 TT from Lexington KY to Colo springs, definitely felt a power loss and more lag. I used 20% E85 and 80% 91 octane and got some, not all the power back but still lagged more than Lexington which is about 1000 ft altitude.

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      10-07-2012 03:40 PM #14
      my car also had a 93 oct tune

    15. 10-08-2012 01:03 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by toy4two2 View Post

      For the stock DV I've heard it debated either way, some say the 710N works fine with a tune previous debate: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...V-is-it-enough
      Much more appropriate discussion on the topic linked below! It is stickied in the 1.8t technical FAQ along with another DV discussion with a wealth of knowledge. In the thread linked you will even find videos of the 710 pressure tests posted by some member called The_Roadwarrior.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...r-my-1.8/page3

    16. 10-08-2012 08:56 PM #16
      Thanks Marcus,

      I tightened all connections today and adjusted my boost gauge. Test run shows a spike to 22 at best and a rather pathetic drop to 15 or 16 psi. The car is working better though so I am pretty confident my dv is not holding the pressure. I did a quick search and feel like an idiot as I could not find the link to order the madmax dv. And i've seen it 10 times in the past few months. Would you please let me know what it is so I can get it ordered and move on to the next mod?
      I bet that will fix most of my concerns. I am going to get a K&N panel filter and then see what I can do for a turbo back exhaust. I found a down pipe on eBay from relentless for under $400 shipped and from what I could read it sounds decent.I would then need to figure out a cat back. I am not sure if it's worth doing all the research sourcing everything separately rather than biting the bullet and going with the 42 draft design system. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to read and to help.
      Sigfrid

    17. 10-09-2012 10:25 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by SigfridR View Post
      Thanks Marcus,

      I tightened all connections today and adjusted my boost gauge. Test run shows a spike to 22 at best and a rather pathetic drop to 15 or 16 psi. The car is working better though so I am pretty confident my dv is not holding the pressure. I did a quick search and feel like an idiot as I could not find the link to order the madmax dv. And i've seen it 10 times in the past few months. Would you please let me know what it is so I can get it ordered and move on to the next mod?
      I bet that will fix most of my concerns. I am going to get a K&N panel filter and then see what I can do for a turbo back exhaust. I found a down pipe on eBay from relentless for under $400 shipped and from what I could read it sounds decent.I would then need to figure out a cat back. I am not sure if it's worth doing all the research sourcing everything separately rather than biting the bullet and going with the 42 draft design system. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to read and to help.
      Sigfrid
      I would bite the bullet and give 42 DD a call. I've learned my lessons by having to spend and do things twice in the long run when looking for "deals". I have no personal experience with relentless and what seems to be their 10th attempt to get this downpipe right... but I can tell you that people who purchased them reported having to customize the fitment, and they haven't passed the test of time to be a proven reliable solution. As for the Madmax DV, forum sponsor Verdict Motorsports has them listed and I would give them a call and support a great bunch that supports our platform and hobby (Noah will take care of you). Another thing I would suggest to take care of that nasty boost taper is the wastegate actuator spring mod. Simple, inexpensive, and only requires a MBC to cap the boost ceiling. Read up on it below!
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...tor-Spring-Mod

    18. 10-09-2012 03:52 PM #18
      Went crazy and bought the madmax DV, turbo back exhaust from 42 draft and a K&N panel filter. Thanks Marcus for the information. I will get the springs needed and do the waste gate mod when I install the exhaust. Now I just need to find out which vacuum line to install my needle valve for boost control and deteermine if I must also buy a TIP. That is the extent of the mods I want to do to the car (I've said that on many other cars but will really try this time). My wife is going to kill me. I better buy her something before stuff starts arriving. I'm thinking a sky pass will get me off the hook. Thanks all. I"ll throw an update up in about a month when all the stuff is on the car.

      Sigfrid

    19. 10-13-2012 03:22 PM #19
      Installed K&N panel filter and the tip-in response is improved. I also think the computer is adjusting and the car feels better. I received my madmax DV but have to figure out what hoses I need. I do not want reducers or excessive connections.
      I tried to install my H&R springs and had a hell of a time. 3 consecutive days of faiure and i have done this for 20 years. I could not get the strut off the lower mount. I am thinking I should have removed the lower ball joint nuts to hopefully get more suspension travel. The top nut is also impossible to turn loose. I am using a sparkplug wrench with an Allen wrench in the middle but cannot put enough force to loosen.
      Still waiting on exhaust.

    20. Junior Member
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      10-15-2012 05:02 AM #20
      Hey Sigfrid, where are you in Denver? I've had some success with the struts and springs using a strut compressor that advanced autoparts lent and a couple extra bolts so that I could tighten it from the bottom. I'd be happy to swing by and lend a hand if it might help!

      I'm up in the Highlands part of town, close to Mile Hight.

      Juan

    21. 10-16-2012 10:55 AM #21
      Hey Juan,

      I could definitely use some help. I am in Park Hill. Close to 26 and Monaco. I might try the install this weekend. Have to check with the wife first though. Would you have time to swing by Saturday morning? Let me know and I can confirm. I would really like to get this done. This is the first time I have so many problems with such a simple task. Thanks,

      Sigfrid

    22. 11-09-2012 03:46 AM #22
      i am in Denver as well near 84th and i-25, i could maybe help too, shoot me a PM, ive done my TT's suspension many times, it gets easier after a while lol

    23. 11-09-2012 10:46 AM #23
      Quick update,

      I installed my 42 draft turbo back exhaust. I ordered wrong and got the one with no cat and have been driving it all week. Man it stinks. I really liike the exhaust though and the power is definitely MUCH better. I still think the lag is not so normal so next up is the spring mod on the wastegate. I might attempt that over the wekend. I hafve not installed my Madmax DV as I really do not like the hacked up look of reducers, etc. I am takikng a nit of time to come up with a better solution. The exhaust improved boost holding by about 1500 RPM but it still drops by 6000 to the point it makes sense to shift. I am trying to see if I can get a new upload from APR for a 91 octane stage 2 as I am really thinking the car is not happy with the stage 1 93 octane tune. Thanks all for the advice and willingness to help. More updates soon.

      Maybe somehow, I'll get those damn springs installed.....thanks Juan for coming out and helping me...and thanks Luis for your proposal. See you guys soon,

      Sigfrid

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