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    Thread: Pre 1930's cars

    1. Member 1985Jetta's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 04:53 PM #26
      '35 500K


    2. Member David802's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 04:55 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      Same car?
      I think so... Thanks for sharing that engine photo.. Did you talk to the owner at all, if so did he do the restoration himself or did he pay someone to do it? Also, I guess that Tatra is the first streamliner. Wiki says its the first car ever designed to be truly aerodynamic and was designed, in part, by the guy that did the zeppelin.

    3. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 04:57 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by 1985Jetta View Post
      '35 500K

      I thought that that was our red 356 in the background at Ault Park. Closer inspection shows no whitewalls or tan top. That's usually a great show for foreign cars.
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    4. Member Galrot's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 05:00 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      Same car?
      Yes, it is. Here are my two sources for the pictues:
      http://www.conceptcarz.com/events/ev...682&catID=2435

      http://www.conceptcarz.com/events/ev...222&catID=1745



      Now something else:

      1937 Pourtout Delage D8 120S Aero Coupe







      Last edited by Galrot; 10-07-2012 at 05:02 PM.

    5. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 05:03 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by David802 View Post
      I think so... Thanks for sharing that engine photo.. Did you talk to the owner at all, if so did he do the restoration himself or did he pay someone to do it? Also, I guess that Tatra is the first streamliner. Wiki says its the first car ever designed to be truly aerodynamic and was designed, in part, by the guy that did the zeppelin.
      Not the first streamliner, by any means, but the first to be tested for stability.

      I speak to a lot of people, but suffer from NND, New Name Disorder; always have. I love it when the better shows put the owner's names on their credentials.

      That looks like a pretty fresh restoration, but you never know. The restoration on my Mark II convertible is going on 20 years, astounding most people. I know where all the flaws are, though.
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    6. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 05:05 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Galrot View Post
      Now something else:

      1937 Pourtout Delage D8 120S Aero Coupe

      That's when cars reached their pinnacle in styling, IMO.
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    7. Member Galrot's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 05:09 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      That's when cars reached their pinnacle in styling, IMO.
      I personally think the best time in terms of styling was between mid '50s until the oil crisis in the early '70s, but I appreciate many of the streamliner-design from this period too.

    8. Member David802's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 05:19 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      That's when cars reached their pinnacle in styling, IMO.
      It is definitely one of the pinnacles... I don't think you can really compare these old streamlined cars to some of the new cars... To me, its more like different genres of art. Both incredibly beautiful, but in different ways.

      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      Not the first streamliner, by any means, but the first to be tested for stability.

      I speak to a lot of people, but suffer from NND, New Name Disorder; always have. I love it when the better shows put the owner's names on their credentials.

      That looks like a pretty fresh restoration, but you never know. The restoration on my Mark II convertible is going on 20 years, astounding most people. I know where all the flaws are, though.
      Was worth a shot. It looks like a really nice resto, and I like that they didn't try and change, polish or modify anything. It looks like it just rolled out of the showroom floor, but then that is what a concourse show is .
      Last edited by David802; 10-07-2012 at 05:29 PM.

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      10-07-2012 05:45 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by N3M51R View Post

      And idk the year for these Benz's but they have that classic sweetness factor to them-



      :
      These are just pastiche kit cars built on shortened VW chassis. Seventies gar-bahjjjje.
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    10. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 05:53 PM #35
      I love the Conceptcarz site. They have pages for our '33 Continental Flyer, '55 Porsche Continental Cabrio and '56 Mark II convertible. We seem to frequently cross paths.

      The '33 Flyer is also a transition car. While the '32 Fords were all-steel, that feature was uncommon for most cars. Most cars were made from sheet metal nailed or screwed to a wood frame. Wood holds moisture so many of the cars simply rotted or rusted away. Structural integrity was a joke after a couple of years of rough roads. Some of the crash pictures are pretty horrific.

      Brief history of this car and why people find it significant. First, it's the only known running example in the Western Hemisphere. It was designed for a new entry into the growing auto market of 200, or so, manufacturers. The Continental Motor Company made engines for most of those companies, along with Lycoming and others. They got stuck with a debt of $500,000 for unpaid bills for engines private labelled Hall for the DeVaux Company. They traded a portion of the debt for the factory and the existing stock of unbuilt bodies and went into the car-building business, competing with their customers. The Flyer model lasted a single year and the company stopped building cars in 1934.

      The car is significant in other ways. They took what they thought were the best automotive ideas of the time and applied them to their product. The rear suspension used (4) quarter elliptical springs to locate and spring the rear axle for significantly lowered sprung weight. The split front axle had a transverse spring on the front. While that was common for cars of that era, what was uncommon was that there was only one shackle. One end was fixed to the axle and the other had a shackle to allow for movement, but that created a 3-point suspension, a very stable configuration. It eliminated the side to side sway of the "buggy-ride" motion of most cars. They took that theory a step further and applied it to an engine for the fist time. The transmission was supported on a single mount with two spring/rubber mounts up front. This eliminated the typical side to side motto of a motor/trans on 4 mounts.

      The one thing that set this car above many others in its low price range is that it was designed by a Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky, a russian nobleman that designed cars for french companies. It was high style for low dollars.

      Note the wide stance and wheel gap, both very unusual for the time.

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    11. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 06:00 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by David802 View Post
      Was worth a shot. It looks like a really nice resto, and I like that they didn't try and change, polish or modify anything. It looks like it just rolled out of the showroom floor, but then that is what a concourse show is .
      Not so. It is purely a beauty contest. The only show that almost requires a fresh restoration is Pebble. I've been told my car would need a $1,000 detail to even be considered. I'm on the board and selection committee of a show and the truth is we just want cars with wow-factor. Getting people back every year to see something new is what raises money for the charities normally affiliated with the shows. That's what a Concours is.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
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    12. Get Off My Lawn!!! vwlarry's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 06:02 PM #37
      Actually, aerodynamic analysis of automotive designs predated Ledwinka's Tatras. Amos Northup tested his 1933 Reo Royale in a wind tunnel for drag and stability factors, and more notably, Chrysler did extensive and elaborate aerodynamic analysis of its 1934 Airflow, even going to the extreme of fitting ultra-slick nose pieces on its production prototypes to explore aerodynamics even more deeply. Rumpler and Voisin, in the teens and twenties, were tinkering with the aerodynamics of their designs, too, to a less significant degree of success, though.

      1933 Reo Royale:



      1934 Chrysler Airflow:



      There are myriad examples of automotive designers and engineers exploring the science of aerodynamics that predate the Tatra. Another very notable example is John Tjaarda's famous streamliner concept car that he sold to Ford Motor Company after it created a sensation at the 1933 Century of Progress World's Fair in Chicago. Edsel Ford took this design, adapted it to front-engined configuration instead of its original rear-engine layout, and produced the landmark Lincoln Zephyr of 1936, which was the first really successful mass-produced "aero" car. Ferdinand Porsche traveled to America in 1933 specifically to study this futuristic prototype, btw. The influence Tjaarda's design exerted on Porsche's eventual VW Beetle is pretty obvious:

      The Tjaarda World's Fair concept car:



      The car it begat, the Lincoln Zephyr:

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    13. Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 06:07 PM #38
      Butler Tires & Wheels
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    14. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 06:14 PM #39
      Thanks, Larry, that's a new one on me.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

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    15. Member Kar98's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 06:36 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      Same car?



      Engine designed by Dr. Porsche, I believe.
      Concept RIPPED OFF by Porsche, for the bug and the Porsche.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Le...en_controversy
      Last edited by Kar98; 10-07-2012 at 06:39 PM.

    16. Member AB11's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 08:28 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by David802 View Post
      I'm not picky. Thanks for sharing, that is right up there with that mercedes ssk that I posted as far as coolest old cars ever!
      Yup, and this thread has introduced me to the Delage Aero Coupe posted also very cool. Surprised no Voisins have been posted yet...

      Quote Originally Posted by leitmotif View Post
      I want to say I've seen this in person at the Petersen and it is simply stunning! The circular door just does it for me!
      Yeah, its the combination of door and window mechanism and just looks so amazing in black. The photo of it in the junk yard yust makes you

      Quote Originally Posted by Kar98 View Post
      Concept RIPPED OFF by Porsche, for the bug and the Porsche.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Le...en_controversy
      Twice, Porsche designed Mercedes 1XXX (1933-37)



      http://www.pakwheels.com/blog/2010/0...from-pws-past/

    17. Member Lifelong Obsession's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 08:35 PM #42
      On a more bizarre note - the 1899 Horsey Horseless.


    18. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 07:32 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Kar98 View Post
      Concept RIPPED OFF by Porsche, for the bug and the Porsche.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Le...en_controversy
      Just wondering if you even read the link, because it clearly said they "looked over each other's shoulders" during the development of the Tatra and the VW. What do you think that means?
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

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    19. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 09:15 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by David802 View Post
      If you wanted to sneak some 30's or 40's cars in there I wouldn't be offended.
      Well, if you insist...



      The 1937 Talbot Lago.

      What stunningly beautiful times for automobiles the '20s and '30s were.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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      10-08-2012 10:21 AM #45
      Glad to see the thirties' cars in here. The Talbot Lago cars were
      amazing, particularly when clothed by F&F.

    21. 10-08-2012 11:27 AM #46
      I love all the pre 30 Bentleys

    22. Member Kar98's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 11:59 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      Just wondering if you even read the link, because it clearly said they "looked over each other's shoulders" during the development of the Tatra and the VW. What do you think that means?
      It means "I stole it but I am too chicken to outright admit it." So, which company had to pay which company after the war? Hint: VW had to pay Tatra three million DM.

    23. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 12:11 PM #48
      Get over it. That was a long time ago. Just because someone wins a lawsuit doesn't mean they're right. It usually just means they have a better lawyer.
      Last edited by barry2952; 10-08-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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      10-08-2012 12:24 PM #49
      Franklin air cooled all day every day
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      10-08-2012 12:24 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      Get over it. That was a long time ago. Just because someone wins a lawsuit doesn't mean they're right. It usually just means they have a better lawyer.

      I'm a lawyer and I approve this post
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