"No-Haggle" dealerships... can they be dealt with?

[rconn14]

Dear TCL,

I'm looking at purchasing a used vehicle from a dealership a few hundred miles from me, meaning I cannot even haggle in person. When I called regarding pricing, the salesman states that they are a "no-haggle" dealership and the price online is the price is the price, and it's their policy.

Basically, has anyone successfully haggled with a "no-haggle" dealership? It isn't CarMax, so it is not a nation wide policy. Thoughts on this system? Any advice on how to widdle away at the price?

Also, if anyone has experience with it, can it be negotiated that tax/title/registration be included in said price?

The car in question is a 2010 VW Golf TDI 6MT, with nav and bixenon's, for $19,000. 46,000 miles. Fair deal?

What you say, TCL?

[PJA]

Do you have a trade-in? Because at most "no haggle" dealerships, that's where your haggling is going to occur.

[vdubdave]

The only thing I've seen "no haggle" dealers budge on is their own paperwork fees or something similar to that. If their business model is setting the lowest price they need to get for the vehicle up front and advertising it as no haggle, then you're not going to get much wiggle room from them.

[seadoo2006]

I've had luck "haggling" tax with dealers as these as long as you're a cash deal.

Say Car #1 is on the lot for $10k no-haggle. Cost OTD is $10k + TTL. If you haggle for say half tax on a cash deal, it goes on their books at a $5k sale + TTL and they pocket the "cash" you pay them. Works for usually a few hundred bucks, but it honestly depends on the dealer.

This trick also works on trade ins as well. If they lower the sale price when taking a trade-in, and it's a cash deal, you can game the tax end of this. Of course, this, I'd imagine is all pseudo-legal, so YMMV.

[rconn14]

Do you have a trade-in? Because at most "no haggle" dealerships, that's where your haggling is going to occur.

Would not be trading anything in. Just tried to work with the guy on getting tax included in that price and he wouldn't budge. KBB says 17,400 for a trade in that's in excellent condition, so I'm sure they're making a fair buck on this one.

I took my R32 to a local dealer for a trade in offer and the best I received was $5,500. I laughed all the way home. I'd rather sell it to someone that appreciates the car on the poortex for that price, so no trade in for me right now.

[Air-over-water]

I took my R32 to a local dealer for a trade in offer and the best I received was $5,500. I laughed all the way home.

Its just a 9 year old Golf.

[.LSinLV.]

Would not be trading anything in. Just tried to work with the guy on getting tax included in that price and he wouldn't budge. KBB says 17,400 for a trade in that's in excellent condition, so I'm sure they're making a fair buck on this one.

I took my R32 to a local dealer for a trade in offer and the best I received was $5,500. I laughed all the way home. I'd rather sell it to someone that appreciates the car on the poortex for that price, so no trade in for me right now.

how many miles on the R??? I'd be interested

[rconn14]

Its just a 9 year old Golf.

Ha I realize that. I wasn't expecting to be wowed, but I was at least expecting $7500.

Let's please not let this turn into a "TCL bash the guy that thinks his R32 is a Ferrari" thread, though.

how many miles on the R??? I'd be interested

I know there would be a line out the door for the car at that price, I'm not interested in selling for anywhere near that, the car means more to me than that, for now. PM me if you're interested at a higher price.

Back on the "no haggle" track.

[PJA]

Would not be trading anything in. Just tried to work with the guy on getting tax included in that price and he wouldn't budge. KBB says 17,400 for a trade in that's in excellent condition, so I'm sure they're making a fair buck on this one.

A $1,600 spread from trade to retail is not making a fair buck. Sounds like they are covering their turnaround costs and only making a few hundred dollars. Sounds like they want this car gone. I'd say the price they're asking is more than fair as it looks to be $1000-$1500 under market value, depending on where you are in the country.

[rconn14]

A $1,600 spread from trade to retail is not making a fair buck. Sounds like they are covering their turnaround costs and only making a few hundred dollars. Sounds like they want this car gone. I'd say the price they're asking is more than fair as it looks to be $1000-$1500 under market value, depending on where you are in the country.

Well I know that's a small margin, but I highly doubt they offered KBB excellent value to the previous owner. I would think they'd have at least a $2100-2200 margin.

Maybe I'm just being a dick, though. I haven't dealt with "no-haggle" before and the dealerships I've gone to in the past couple of weeks have readily taken $1000 off the car without batting an eye. These folks won't even budge $50. It's off putting when everyone else has come off as desperate to sell.

[seadoo2006]

Well I know that's a small margin, but I highly doubt they offered KBB excellent value to the previous owner. I would think they'd have at least a $2100-2200 margin.

That's still less than 10% on a car. Most places couldn't even make ends meet with margins that low.

[deagle]

don't focus on the price

how is the quality of car w/o an inspection if you're miles away ?

buying a car sight unseen can be risky

if anything, i'd send them an offer via email and see if they accept or politely decline (or rudely decline or not even answer)

just say you were driving back from a business trip , saw the (business name), and then proceeded to browse their inventory online and was curious about the specific vehicle

[PJA]

Well I know that's a small margin, but I highly doubt they offered KBB excellent value to the previous owner. I would think they'd have at least a $2100-2200 margin.

Maybe I'm just being a dick, though. I haven't dealt with "no-haggle" before and the dealerships I've gone to in the past couple of weeks have readily taken $1000 off the car without batting an eye. These folks won't even budge $50. It's off putting when everyone else has come off as desperate to sell.

As noted, that's still a very small margin. Additionally, are we talking the same year and equipment car at other dealerships? What is their starting price that they're knocking off "$1000 without batting an eye"? Is it close to what the no-haggle is offering?

[rconn14]

don't focus on the price

how is the quality of car w/o an inspection if you're miles away ?

buying a car sight unseen can be risky

if anything, i'd send them an offer via email and see if they accept or politely decline (or rudely decline or not even answer)

just say you were driving back from a business trip , saw the (business name), and then proceeded to browse their inventory online and was curious about the specific vehicle

I'm not too concerned about the quality of the vehicle, it is at a VW dealership and is Certified Pre-Owned with 2yr/24,000 warranty. I would put a deposit on the car, and then make the drive. The deposit is refundable if I am unhappy when I get there.

[rconn14]

As noted, that's still a very small margin. Additionally, are we talking the same year and equipment car at other dealerships? What is their starting price that they're knocking off "$1000 without batting an eye"? Is it close to what the no-haggle is offering?

It's different models, I am not saying they are in the wrong at the no-haggle dealership, I am just saying that I may be jaded by the fact that it has been so easy to get dealerships to move on their prices, and that I doubt a no-haggle price is comparable to the rock-bottom of a haggled price at another dealership, on an identical car.

[urbanrocketeer]

Although I've never bought a Scion personally, I understood the way Scion dealers got around their pricing policy was to include "freebies" such as all-weather floor mats, dealer installed options, window tinting, free oil changes, etc. as a way of negotiating the price. Perhaps there is something there for you to use.

[thedevilsequal]

Used car market blows right now. For the past couple years I bought cars under a 100k on the clock for 4-5K. Now same exact cars are going for around 9-10k. Found the car my wife wanted 2002 white jetta 24v vr6 leather and all options. 50k on the clock. dealer won't budge from 10K. My trade of a 2002 blue jetta near perfect condition 150k on the clock they offer 750 on trade. I laughed and walked out of the dealer.

[MAC]

Whats the difference if they are a no haggle dealership if you haven't even walked in there yet ? You're just one of 100 people who have called about that car. Yet you're surprised they aren't going to drop the price over the phone.

[ATL_Av8r]

Would not be trading anything in. Just tried to work with the guy on getting tax included in that price and he wouldn't budge. KBB says 17,400 for a trade in that's in excellent condition, so I'm sure they're making a fair buck on this one.

I took my R32 to a local dealer for a trade in offer and the best I received was $5,500. I laughed all the way home. I'd rather sell it to someone that appreciates the car on the poortex for that price, so no trade in for me right now.

I'll give you $5,501

[Calcvictim]

I can't tell you about the no haggle deal but my gf got a 2011 GTI, DSG, 2 door with HID, Nav, no leather for 21.5. The car had 11k miles on it, this was 3 months ago. We drove to New Jersey to get it. It sound like the deal is decent but you might be able to do better if you're willing to drive further.

[rconn14]

I can't tell you about the no haggle deal but my gf got a 2011 GTI, DSG, 2 door with HID, Nav, no leather for 21.5. The car had 11k miles on it, this was 3 months ago. We drove to New Jersey to get it. It sound like the deal is decent but you might be able to do better if you're willing to drive further.

This particular car is 370 miles from my house

It is the only one on autotrader within 500 miles, in the configuration I was hoping for.

[orly22]

Just FYI. The whole no haggle pricing deal is generally pretty fair. The reason they may not be "willing" to move on price may simply be a legal situation in that state.
I know for the VW store I mange we cannot change our dealer doc fee for any customer. The state law for us doesn't allow discounts or waiver of doc fees for any cust.
The logic behind it is that, if one customer gets it waived then EVERY single customer we've charged doc fee would be entitled to a reduction or waiver of the doc fees they paid.

[rconn14]

Whats the difference if they are a no haggle dealership if you haven't even walked in there yet ? You're just one of 100 people who have called about that car. Yet you're surprised they aren't going to drop the price over the phone.

I somewhat had this feeling at first, but I really gave the guy a hard time about working something for me, and explained how it is discouraging me from driving 7 hours to buy the car they are selling. I may put a deposit down, but I assume they will tell me that by putting a deposit down, I am agreeing to the terms that are set when the deposit is made, and I won't drive that far without putting a deposit down.

[cretinx]

Would not be trading anything in. Just tried to work with the guy on getting tax included in that price and he wouldn't budge. KBB says 17,400 for a trade in that's in excellent condition, so I'm sure they're making a fair buck on this one.

I took my R32 to a local dealer for a trade in offer and the best I received was $5,500. I laughed all the way home. I'd rather sell it to someone that appreciates the car on the poortex for that price, so no trade in for me right now.

Looking at Corvettes, I got offered $11,000 trade in for my 911

[redshift]

My trade of a 2002 blue jetta near perfect condition 150k on the clock they offer 750 on trade. I laughed and walked out of the dealer.

Jesus.. talk about a lowball. I got almost that much in trade for a 1992 Civic with almost 200K when I bought one of the MX-5s.

[ajd187]

You say you're in CT, and the dealer is about 375 miles away. Is it Dorschel VW in Rochester, NY?

If so, they are a great dealer to work with, and their price is the most competitive in their local market.

I have bought two cars from them (both this year) and they were awesome. They are truely "no haggle" and no BS. I think that, with test drives included, I spent maybe 4 hours total buying BOTH cars. Most people spend more time waiting for the finance manager in a regular dealership.

They are very big. They have Toyota, Nissan, Infiniti, Lexus, Fisker, and Kia dealers, a bad-credit/no-credit lot (and their own bank to finance those) in addition to the VW dealership. They deal in high volume, and that is how they sell cars at the prices they do.

Bring up your R32 if you want to trade it in. You'd probably be surprised at the value you'd get. They come very close to KBB on most trade ins too.

Just a happy customer here.

[PJA]

It's different models, I am not saying they are in the wrong at the no-haggle dealership, I am just saying that I may be jaded by the fact that it has been so easy to get dealerships to move on their prices, and that I doubt a no-haggle price is comparable to the rock-bottom of a haggled price at another dealership, on an identical car.

If it's the exact car you're looking for (and rare, seeing as how it's the only one within 500 miles of you) AND it's more than a thousand dollars LESS than book, then why don't you take it? As well, I highly doubt your "rock bottom haggled price" somewhere else would be any better. If the price is right and it's what you want, then buy it. There's no need to beat anyone up over it.

Look, you can't haggle on iPods or organic pasta sauce, and those things retail are 30-100% over their wholesale values. Just because the dealership wants to make some profit doesn't mean you're getting ripped off.

[juvefan20]

I am also close to this dealer and can say they do have great deals, although with the new competition in town the new dealer Dick Ide VW did better when taking my trade into account which Dorschel was not coming close to.

Working in sales though I will say each deal is different for each dealer, sometimes it just depends on how deep you are in on trades on a given month which will dictate how good an offer will be made on your trade. In my case I made out on my trade and got the same price on the new car as the low no haggle price from Dorschel.

For the record prior to it being Dick Ide VW I never walked into the old Vincent VW. Now a lot of the Dorschel staff can be found at Dick Ide.

You say you're in CT, and the dealer is about 375 miles away. Is it Dorschel VW in Rochester, NY?

If so, they are a great dealer to work with, and their price is the most competitive in their local market.

I have bought two cars from them (both this year) and they were awesome. They are truely "no haggle" and no BS. I think that, with test drives included, I spent maybe 4 hours total buying BOTH cars. Most people spend more time waiting for the finance manager in a regular dealership.

They are very big. They have Toyota, Nissan, Infiniti, Lexus, Fisker, and Kia dealers, a bad-credit/no-credit lot (and their own bank to finance those) in addition to the VW dealership. They deal in high volume, and that is how they sell cars at the prices they do.

Bring up your R32 if you want to trade it in. You'd probably be surprised at the value you'd get. They come very close to KBB on most trade ins too.

Just a happy customer here.

[rconn14]

You say you're in CT, and the dealer is about 375 miles away. Is it Dorschel VW in Rochester, NY?

If so, they are a great dealer to work with, and their price is the most competitive in their local market.

I have bought two cars from them (both this year) and they were awesome. They are truely "no haggle" and no BS. I think that, with test drives included, I spent maybe 4 hours total buying BOTH cars. Most people spend more time waiting for the finance manager in a regular dealership.

They are very big. They have Toyota, Nissan, Infiniti, Lexus, Fisker, and Kia dealers, a bad-credit/no-credit lot (and their own bank to finance those) in addition to the VW dealership. They deal in high volume, and that is how they sell cars at the prices they do.

Bring up your R32 if you want to trade it in. You'd probably be surprised at the value you'd get. They come very close to KBB on most trade ins too.

Just a happy customer here.

It is Dorschel. I appreciate the review, there are some negative ones online but they all seem to be about the Toyota branch of the dealer (surprise).

[rconn14]

If it's the exact car you're looking for (and rare, seeing as how it's the only one within 500 miles of you) AND it's more than a thousand dollars LESS than book, then why don't you take it? As well, I highly doubt your "rock bottom haggled price" somewhere else would be any better. If the price is right and it's what you want, then buy it. There's no need to beat anyone up over it.

Look, you can't haggle on iPods or organic pasta sauce, and those things retail are 30-100% over their wholesale values. Just because the dealership wants to make some profit doesn't mean you're getting ripped off.

I hear ya. I've never bought a car and haggled much before. I stupidly paid full asking price at a haggle-friendly dealer for the Silverado SS I had prior to the R32. Took on a ton of debt, got hosed in the long run, I was 19 when I bought it, and it was the first time I fully went out and bought a vehicle on my own. The R32 was from a private seller that needed to get what he was asking so he could pay off his loan. He threw the extra wheels in for me for less than he wanted to, that was the extent of negotiations.

This time around I'm older, somewhat less impulsive in my decision making, and OCD about researching. Had not dealt with a no-haggle dealer before, and my local VW dealer was eager to sell me a car. A couple days after they gave me a decent number on a low mileage GTI, I brought my mom down there to buy a car on their lot. I got them down $1,000 pretty easily on the asking price for that as well, and they came down a little more on the GTI for me after I brought them business.

You do have a good point, I wasn't sure if the consensus would be to go for it or wait it out and hope another one pops up or I change my mind, etc. Just wasn't sure how far to push a dealer with this policy, or if there were any tips for it. Thanks for the advice.

[Mr Roo]

when we were looking at my wifes used suv at a no haggle dealer, and they were 100% no haggle. I was a preapproved customer with basically cash in hand. They wouldnt move on price and the sales person brought the owners son out to talk to me. I even said would you look at some of the tax on the car, and guy said no. My wife said you would let us walk over 500 buck and the guy said all day long. We left and bought the truck down the street. As we walked you could see the salesperson face, dude was crushed.

[ajd187]

It is Dorschel. I appreciate the review, there are some negative ones online but they all seem to be about the Toyota branch of the dealer (surprise).

We bought from the Toyota dealer, well twice actually. Bought a Rav4 for my wife in January, and my VW from the same salesman in February. He is a Toyota sales guy but he was able to sell me the VW too.

They have only switched to the new no haggle model in 2011, so any reviews before that will be of their old way of doing business. Their new way is a lot better. They post the interest rates right outside in the showroom, for example.

The only thing we got whacked on was the extended warranty on the Toyota.

With all of that said, you probably won't get them to move on price. But, you probably won't need to either - they are super competitive. We paid $2500 less for our Rav4 than the other dealer's best price.