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    Thread: Horrific Subaru Impreza accident 4 teens killed

    1. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 04:56 AM #26
      It's too bad this ended 4 lives. Everybody does dumb stuff in their lives and most live through it with a life lesson or two, but some aren't that lucky. Gauge your dumb stuff guys.

      And why the hell do some people not wear seat belts?
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      10-09-2012 04:56 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      You can blame a lot for this.
      I blame lack of proper driver's training. The first time you lose traction shouldn't be on a public road with people in the back, and yet, with our nanny-ass fear of showing kids that cars might be fun to drive fast, we feed them DARE-esq FUD.
      And once they break the rules and survive doing something their driver's training guy told them would kill them, they figure they can deal with anything.

      Your kids ae gonna do stupid **** in cars. Might as well have them know what counter-steering is.
      This is a tragic story - but I don't think driver training would necessarily fix the outcome.

      I'm going off the extra ordinary assumption that speed played a factor as well as LACK OF SEAT BELTS for the passengers to be ejected from the vehicle upon impact. Plain stupidity to not wear the correct restraint is the culprit, in my opinion. No guarantee that any of the victims would have survived had they worn their restraints but that precaution takes precedence over advanced driver training. And you're right, at 17 with hormones and pressure to be risky especially in such a fast vehicle will inevitably have higher chance for an accident - but I think, regardless of driver training. In fact, I can (with more ease) see the argument that having the false sense of confidence or 'capability' to handle the car at such potentially high speeds would encourage the actions. Would it (advanced training) help? Sure but it wouldn't prevent the problem happening in the first place and I think it minimal impact on catastrophic consequences.

      Sad to say but this is fodder for more electronic nannies, and possibly rightfully so - if it can prevent some deaths due to ignorance and/or negligence, it may very well be worth it.


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      10-09-2012 05:12 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by NailsInOurBacks View Post
      Sad to say but this is fodder for more electronic nannies, and possibly rightfully so - if it can prevent some deaths due to ignorance and/or negligence, it may very well be worth it.

      If you mean nannies as in parental controls or progressive performance related to licensing, then I agree that that could work. If it's just more stability control, then I disagree as that increases the speed at which a crash will occur. If you're going to learn the hard way, it's better that the lesson occur at a lower speed.
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

    4. 10-09-2012 05:12 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by aoj2108 View Post
      "We actually found one young man wandering around the accident site. He didn't seem like he had a scratch on him"

      Ok so who was this kid that was relatively unscathed? Because it is usually the driver who walks away from an accident while the passengers die.
      Yep it was the driver who survived here too.

      It says in the article the victims were 4 18 year old boys, and the driver is 17.

      Doesn't specifically say he survived I don't think...

      Can't imagine how much of an idiot that kid feels like and how hated he must be. Probably going to start living up to his namesake to deal with it. ... then do it again.

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      10-09-2012 05:36 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      If you mean nannies as in parental controls or progressive performance related to licensing, then I agree that that could work. If it's just more stability control, then I disagree as that increases the speed at which a crash will occur. If you're going to learn the hard way, it's better that the lesson occur at a lower speed.
      Both are beneficial but I do mean on-board electronic/sensor systems to prevent the high speed antics from occurring in the first place. Let the computer cut in - take in the situation, road conditions, occupants, tire pressure, etc. (hell use GPS and gauge the potential risk of the stretch of road itself even). This may not be popular on a car forum but I take more stock in a computer doing its job than human common sense. There's a place and time for a sports/sporty/race car to stretch its legs - at a race track. Then, good riddance to the nannies. Doesn't the Nissan GTR have something like this?

      Should we be forced to live in the oppression of T-1000? No. Give an option to turn off the aids, give the freedom to enjoy the vehicle to perform how it was designed to - but do so with the full ownership of responsibility to the potential catastrophic outcome - give the lawyers a break and make it apparent it was simply foolish decisions on the drivers part. Again, working off extra ordinary assumption that the driver didn't turn off aids, didn't wear a seat belt, essentially didn't use common sense. It isn't out of our reach to have the car drive itself. It'd behoove us to take care of our absurdly stupid - who knows what they may be capable of in the future, let's ensure they get the opportunity to reach that point.

      So sad to have to argue on this side of the fence.. Give me a 640 whp Z06 with nothing but my right foot to control how things turn out in a controlled environment.

    6. Member McBanagon's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:49 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by NailsInOurBacks View Post
      This is a tragic story - but I don't think driver training would necessarily fix the outcome.
      I agree, that "lack of training" comment cracked me up. He had his learner's permit. New drivers are new.

      Even if the Scandinavian flick and trail-braking were part of the Long Island driver's ed curriculum, it wouldn't have fixed stupid.
      Last edited by McBanagon; 10-09-2012 at 07:45 AM.

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      10-09-2012 05:58 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by NailsInOurBacks View Post
      Both are beneficial but I do mean on-board electronic/sensor systems to prevent the high speed antics from occurring in the first place. Let the computer cut in - take in the situation, road conditions, occupants, tire pressure, etc. (hell use GPS and gauge the potential risk of the stretch of road itself even). This may not be popular on a car forum but I take more stock in a computer doing its job than human common sense. There's a place and time for a sports/sporty/race car to stretch its legs - at a race track. Then, good riddance to the nannies. Doesn't the Nissan GTR have something like this?
      I believe the GTR had something that restricted speed unless it was at a track. That's more in line with what I was talking about.

      As for GPS predicting the potential for disaster, that's impractical even if you put aside the inaccuracy of GPS. The problem is accounting for sudden turns. Would it keep it slow enough to be safe at every intersection? Would it have electronic steering and braking to prevent such a turn from being made? This might be practical in the future. This would be appropriate for discussion in the Lutz predicts self driving cars thread.
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

    8. Senior Member urogolf's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:23 AM #33
      this is horrible for sure!

      anyone else think that this is an awful lot of car for a freshly "learners permitted" driver?
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      10-09-2012 07:47 AM #34
      And what's your 17 year old kid doing out at 3AM?? A little parental structure goes a long way, you know. I don't know about you all, but I had a pretty strict curfew and was expected to abide by it... which I did or else my dad would have my hide. It was just engrained in me.

      Sad story, especially for the families. But it'll keep happening. Stupid parents will keep buying their kids cars they can't handle and certain kids are always going to push the limits.

      It's another case of some spoiled brat bringing his buddies down with him.
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      10-09-2012 07:52 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by urogolf View Post
      this is horrible for sure!

      anyone else think that this is an awful lot of car for a freshly "learners permitted" driver?
      Hell yes. I don't know what parents are thinking, many of my son's HS classamtes have Camaros, Mustangs, 370Zs, GTIs, WRXs, 3 series, etc and one just got a new Golf R. One of them totalled a new Camaro and then showed up with another new one a few weeks later. Sure, teenagers can get in trouble in any car, but getting them a high performance car is tempting fate.

    11. 10-09-2012 07:52 AM #36
      Learner's permit without adult supervision?

      Driving in the middle of the night early morning?

      Inexperienced?

      Check, check, check. Bad combinations with bad results waiting to happen

      The driver is still alive and rest of passengers are killed, what else is new

    12. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 08:06 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post
      And what's your 17 year old kid doing out at 3AM?? A little parental structure goes a long way, you know. I don't know about you all, but I had a pretty strict curfew and was expected to abide by it... which I did or else my dad would have my hide. It was just engrained in me.

      Sad story, especially for the families. But it'll keep happening. Stupid parents will keep buying their kids cars they can't handle and certain kids are always going to push the limits.

      It's another case of some spoiled brat bringing his buddies down with him.
      Peer pressure and knowledge of ways to get out of your house do a lot. I had friends back in high school who purposefully parked a certain way so they could sneak out of their house and roll their car down or up the street depending on if they were coming or going, all without the their parents knowing. Most of the time this occurred because their parents were so strict in the first place.

      Sucks for sure for everyone involved.
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      10-09-2012 08:09 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by joe97 View Post
      Learner's permit without adult supervision?

      Driving in the middle of the night early morning?

      Inexperienced?

      Check, check, check. Bad combinations with bad results waiting to happen

      The driver is still alive and rest of passengers are killed, what else is new
      It sounds heartless, but...play stupid games, win stupid prizes. And that goes for both the driver and the parents.
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      10-09-2012 08:26 AM #39
      Very sad.

      When I think back to all the stupid risks I took with cars and motorcycles 20 years ago when I was 17 I just shake my head in amazement that I never got in to an accident.

      It's strange when you're 17 the stuff you'll do that later in you're 30's and 40's you'll say, "What the hell was I thinking?"

      I don't know if it's a feeling of invincibility or just not weighing the consequences, but it's a strange age for sure and we've all gone through it.

    15. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 08:29 AM #40
      i drove past this accident when they were investigating and a few hours later when they cleaned everything up. the images I have will be forever burned in my mind. I saw chunks of flesh and blood splattered on the road. The debris field is well over 200 feet. the first picture is to get a sense of where the debris landed (some was actually behind me about 20 feet b/c i didn't bother to get my phone out) the turn is west bound and their is a sloping incline with a hidden apex, on my way back i saw he was going too fast over the apex, looks like his wheels locked up (a single skid mark going straight) he must have gone airborne b/c the skid disappeared and then there was the trees that were toppled over (about 4-6" diameter trees not giant ones) maybe 2-3 that were broken with bark removed. the body that i saw was a good 60 feet away from where the car lay in the trees.





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    16. Member Taran's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 08:32 AM #41
      Bad stretch of road for high speed operation when inexperienced. The entrance and exit ramps on that stretch of the Southern Parkway are very short. The road has many curves where the dividing lines are solid white rather than dashed. There are a few blind rises where you can't see if traffic is stopped ahead. Many motorists veer out of their lanes on curves and aggressively change lanes. The Southern Parkway has a speed limit of 55 MPH like the Long Island Expressway (I-495) and even the Northern Parkway, but there is less margin to exceed the speed limit on this road.

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      10-09-2012 08:33 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      Peer pressure and knowledge of ways to get out of your house do a lot. I had friends back in high school who purposefully parked a certain way so they could sneak out of their house and roll their car down or up the street depending on if they were coming or going, all without the their parents knowing. Most of the time this occurred because their parents were so strict in the first place.

      Sucks for sure for everyone involved.
      For what it's worth, my parents were not that "strict" by most people's definitions. They taught me to be respectful of their wishes and their reasoning, and that there are consequences should I make poor decisions. I wasn't ruled over with an iron fist or anything, I was given plenty of freedom but knew that I had to earn it.

      I was just brought up to be respectful to my parents and family. Sneaking out and all that other crap, sure... kids are going to do it. But so many parents waste time sheltering their kids from consequences (for fear of damaging their artificially inflated self-esteem) and the kids think they can have and do whatever they want and it'll still get a trophy at the end. There's no sense of responsibility to those around you.

      Either way, I'm sure the driver's parents sue the state for building an unsafe road or something and take absolutely no shred of responsibility for what happened. I feel awful for the families of the kids who died, I can't begin to imagine their grief in a situation like this. And I feel bad for the parents of the driver, too - they got a wake up call like none other, and way too late to make a difference now. They're likely going to lose their son to jail and a lifetime of mental struggle.

      All because the kid wanted a fast car...
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    18. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 08:45 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by geofftii2002 View Post

      Either way, I'm sure the driver's parents sue the state for building an unsafe road or something and take absolutely no shred of responsibility for what happened. I feel awful for the families of the kids who died, I can't begin to imagine their grief in a situation like this. And I feel bad for the parents of the driver, too - they got a wake up call like none other, and way too late to make a difference now. They're likely going to lose their son to jail and a lifetime of mental struggle.

      All because the kid wanted a fast car...

      and you know this car was his? and you know this wasn't a straight A student? and you know they are going to sue the state 100%?

      get off your high horse. we've all made mistakes, we've all been joy riding in cars and now that we're older we look back on it and think "man was that stupid"

      "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
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      10-09-2012 09:06 AM #44
      Always sad when this kind of stuff happens. Wish that the kid and his friends survived so they could learn the lesson instead of just "YOLO"ing

      Quote Originally Posted by mx5er View Post
      Kid probably made in convincing argument with the parents on how safe AWD is
      I love this quote from last year in a Subaru AWD thread:

      Quote Originally Posted by eweu View Post
      Yes, the street racers generally have no clue about how a car really handles at the limits. If anything, AWD provides just enough confidence to hit that curb extra hard.
      Last edited by C4 A6; 10-09-2012 at 09:08 AM.

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      10-09-2012 10:06 AM #45
      that kid had no business being in a car like that.

      in my experience, every young driver who has a wrx or an sti wrecks it. i think ive known one person under the age of 22 who kept it out of the trees long enough to sell it and buy something else and he didnt drive all that fast. one kid in my grade in high school slid off the road and hit a tree, breaking both his legs and almost dying in a fire. another kid was drunk and stoned running from the cops and hit a tree 15ft up in the air and spent a few months in a coma. there are a few more but i dont know the details, just that they dont have them anymore.

      idk what it is about sti's and wrx's but everybody wrecks them.
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      10-09-2012 10:21 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by AHFlynn View Post
      that kid had no business being in a car like that.

      in my experience, every young driver who has a wrx or an sti wrecks it. i think ive known one person under the age of 22 who kept it out of the trees long enough to sell it and buy something else and he didnt drive all that fast. one kid in my grade in high school slid off the road and hit a tree, breaking both his legs and almost dying in a fire. another kid was drunk and stoned running from the cops and hit a tree 15ft up in the air and spent a few months in a coma. there are a few more but i dont know the details, just that they dont have them anymore.

      idk what it is about sti's and wrx's but everybody wrecks them.

      I blame Ken Block.

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      10-09-2012 10:22 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by AHFlynn View Post
      idk what it is about sti's and wrx's but everybody wrecks them.
      It's the thrill of owning a pretty quick car with a turbo, believing that AWD can save you in any situation, and little driving experience.

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      10-09-2012 10:29 AM #48
      sad but......

      If I had tried to sneak out of my house at 3:30 in the am.....my parents would have killed me 1st.

      seriously, where is the responsibility of the teenages, and their parents??? maybe they had one too few "time outs" in their short lives??

      I did stoopid sh1t when I was a teen, but not at 3:30 in the morning during a school week.
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      10-09-2012 10:29 AM #49
      Thats like getting in a roller coaster and saying "nah i dont need the lap bar"

      Ive lost a couple friends from either stupid kids who are inexperienced drivers or them not wearing their seat belt. There should be graduated licensing like in gran turismo. So new drivers are stuck with priuses and honda civics.

      Not that you cant crash a prius or civic at a high rate of speed but it seems the kids with the fast cars are always the ones who are crashing them.
      Last edited by DMACK; 10-09-2012 at 10:32 AM.

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      10-09-2012 10:34 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      sad but......

      If I had tried to sneak out of my house at 3:30 in the am.....my parents would have killed me 1st.

      seriously, where is the responsibility of the teenages, and their parents??? maybe they had one too few "time outs" in their short lives??

      I did stoopid sh1t when I was a teen, but not at 3:30 in the morning during a school week.

      Monday was columbus day. schools are closed.
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