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    Thread: PayPal claim filed against me. What to do?

    1. Member wowitsgaston's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 04:55 PM #1
      So basically,
      I sold wheels.
      Buyer pays with PayPal.
      Buyer chose UPS to ship the wheels.
      I shipped wheels with UPS.
      UPS lost 2 of the wheels.
      I file a claim for the buyer with UPS.
      Buyer files a claim with PayPal.
      In the buyer's statement, he says that I ignored his texts and did little to nothing to contact UPS and find the wheels. (The lady that helped me file the claim with UPS knew what I was calling for every time I called and heard my name. I also have answered every text he has sent and even tried calling him about the status of the wheels.)

      The dispute isn't settled yet, but when I actually talked to a PayPal rep in the claims dept., she said that I would probably have to give the buyer a full refund or take back the 2 wheels and give a partial refund.

      I feel like I did everything right as a seller. I even gave him a choice of which shipper to use. I gave him tracking numbers the minute I got them. He never asked for any kind of insurance, so I didn't offer or obtain any quotes regarding insurance.

      Is there anything I can do to help my case? I have all conversations with the buyer (via text and vortex pm's) and receipts from UPS.

      Any help would be greatly appreciated.

      Thanks in advance,
      Gaston
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    2. Member Bsaint's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 04:57 PM #2
      prepare anus, bring lube
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      10-09-2012 04:58 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Bsaint View Post
      prepare anus, bring lube
      This.
      Welcome to being a seller using Paypal. You are 99% of the time in the wrong no matter what the facts are for the case

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      10-09-2012 05:00 PM #4
      Lesson learned, always use insurance...
      Insure product shipping with full replacement value of item...
      Add insurance costs to shipping costs plus a little extra...
      Shipping company pays out claim...
      profit???

    5. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:02 PM #5
      paypal usually sides with buyer unfortunately

    6. Member c0r3y.af's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:02 PM #6
      Unfortunately, I think they're right. Unless you have a uncut video of you boxing each one up, labeling the boxes, making the transaction with UPS, etc, they usually pin it on the seller. It's bull****, especially if the buyer didn't ask for any insurance and you provided tracking numbers.

      Give them any piece of info you can possibly think of and hopefully the PayPal gods will be forgiving.
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    7. 10-09-2012 05:06 PM #7
      Buyer is 100% scamming you.

      If you supplied the buyer with tracking info, then it's on ups, not you, to resolve this. It's the dumbass buyers fault for not opting for insurance. He did that on purpose to scam you. Insurance is cheap, so no excuse. As soon as you handed the product over to ups, it's on them to deliver. I tell this to anyone buying from me. As soon as it leaves my hands (as by providing tracking info to buyer as proof) I'm resolved of all responsibility.

    8. 10-09-2012 05:06 PM #8
      I just looked this up:

      UPS loses .8% of packages shipped
      FEDex loses .55% of packages shipped

      Thats pretty amazing.

    9. Member jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:08 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye7 View Post
      I just looked this up:

      UPS loses .8% of packages shipped
      FEDex loses .55% of packages shipped

      Thats pretty amazing.
      I'd bet almost anything that the overwhelming #1 reason for package loss is them leaving packages at the wrong address and people keeping other people's sh!t.

      UPS once left a set of shocks & springs I'd ordered at the wrong house, three streets over, with a totally different house number. Nothing about the address was remotely close or easily confused. Luckily, the people that received it brought it to me after I chewed UPS a new a$$hole and let the company I purchased from have it as well when they told me I was s.o.l.

    10. 10-09-2012 05:09 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      Buyer is 100% scamming you.

      If you supplied the buyer with tracking info, then it's on ups, not you, to resolve this. It's the dumbass buyers fault for not opting for insurance. He did that on purpose to scam you. Insurance is cheap, so no excuse. As soon as you handed the product over to ups, it's on them to deliver. I tell this to anyone buying from me. As soon as it leaves my hands (as by providing tracking info to buyer as proof) I'm resolved of all responsibility.
      I agree with this.

      The buyer probably got all the wheels and is claiming he got two, Files claim with paypal, agrees to send wheels back, gets refund, never returns the wheels.

    11. 10-09-2012 05:09 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      I'd bet almost anything that the overwhelming #1 reason for package loss is them leaving packages at the wrong address.
      #2 is theft from porch.

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      10-09-2012 05:10 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye7 View Post

      Thats pretty amazing.
      Its logistics

    13. Member jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:12 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      Buyer is 100% scamming you.

      If you supplied the buyer with tracking info, then it's on ups, not you, to resolve this. It's the dumbass buyers fault for not opting for insurance. He did that on purpose to scam you. Insurance is cheap, so no excuse. As soon as you handed the product over to ups, it's on them to deliver. I tell this to anyone buying from me. As soon as it leaves my hands (as by providing tracking info to buyer as proof) I'm resolved of all responsibility.
      Been through this as a buyer... UPS will say it's the seller's responsibility. The seller will say it's UPS's responsibility, and it just goes nowhere from there.

    14. Member wowitsgaston's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:13 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye7 View Post
      I agree with this.

      The buyer probably got all the wheels and is claiming he got two, Files claim with paypal, agrees to send wheels back, gets refund, never returns the wheels.
      well i checked the status on the 2 lost wheels, and apparently one was out for delivery in anaheim, CA and the other never left ontario, CA (both socal cities)

      he's location in northern CA
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    15. Member wowitsgaston's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:13 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      Been through this as a buyer... UPS will say it's the seller's responsibility. The seller will say it's UPS's responsibility, and it just goes nowhere from there.
      what happened in your case?
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      10-09-2012 05:14 PM #16
      I've had the exact scam pulled on me. Luckily, my transaction was through eBay so they already had the documentation of the item, sale price, tracking number, etc. They took my money anyway and held it for 2 weeks, then one day I noticed it was back in my account. I called and they said they denied the claim as the buyer had pulled this same thing 4 more times in the last month. Hopefully this happens to you.
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    17. Member jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:15 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by wowitsgaston View Post
      what happened in your case?
      As I mentioned earlier, luckily people in my neighborhood that received the package brought it to me the next day. But short of that, I was going to be out $700.

    18. 10-09-2012 05:15 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      Been through this as a buyer... UPS will say it's the seller's responsibility. The seller will say it's UPS's responsibility, and it just goes nowhere from there.
      How in the hell is it the sellers responsibility to make sure the ups employees do their job???? That's bs. That's why I always work tracking and insurance into everything I sell/ship.

    19. Member jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:16 PM #19
      Another thing to do when shipping something to a buyer is to put a signature requirement for the delivery.

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      10-09-2012 05:16 PM #20
      Was the package required to have a signature?
      What does the tracking numbers say?
      May get reamed on this one sorry to say, but the buyer is pulling a scam for sure.

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      10-09-2012 05:16 PM #21
      What happens when you track shipment?
      If you shipped 4 boxes, even with one tracking number, it's says how many are delivered.
      If all 4 delivered, your absolved. Buyer can't fake that.
      If he refused two packages, you'll get them back.

      With tracking numbers, it's hard for a dead-beat buyer to scam.
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    22. Member jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:16 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      How in the hell is it the sellers responsibility to make sure the ups employees do their job???? That's bs. That's why I always work tracking and insurance into everything I sell/ship.
      Not saying I agree with it, just saying that UPS told me to go f*#k myself.

    23. Member jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:17 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Krazee View Post
      What happens when you track shipment?
      If you shipped 4 boxes, even with one tracking number, it's says how many are delivered.
      If all 4 delivered, your absolved. Buyer can't fake that.
      If he refused two packages, you'll get them back.

      With tracking numbers, it's hard for a dead-beat buyer to scam.
      Not really. In my case, I had two boxed shipped to me, both said delivered (via tracking number), but I plainly didn't receive them.

    24. Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:18 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      paypal usually sides with buyer unfortunately
      Agreed.

      I've been screwed twice, but I still use them. Ehh there really isn't a better option out there.

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    25. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:18 PM #25
      The buyer should have requested insurance. It sucks for him, but that's the reality.

      As the seller, this is not your fault.

      You have documentation of filing the claim with UPS and your interactions with them since, correct? Send all of that to paypal. You acted in good faith and you can demonstrate it.
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      10-09-2012 05:21 PM #26
      That is the problem with Paypal. The buyer is always right. IMO, the shipper is at fault and the buyer did not opt for the insurance. It is a matter of a claim between the buyer and shipper in my eyes, but Paypal will side otherwise. It is a shame.

      I assume you have all the shipping information i.e. tracking number and receipt of shipment that UPS gives? Those might save your anus....
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      10-09-2012 05:26 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      How in the hell is it the sellers responsibility to make sure the ups employees do their job???? That's bs.
      Because the seller is the one that PAID ups to ship the ****. AND the SELLER is the one that gets the money if he bought insurance and they pay the claim.

      What the **** is the buyer supposed to do with 2 wheels ? And no, it's not the buyers fault they didn't buy insurance. This is one of the most over-played myths in e-commerce. You either FORCE the buyer to pay for insurance by adding it to the charges or you eat it out of your sale price. Insurance does dick for the recipient - they can't file a claim with any shipper, thats always on the sender/payor.
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      10-09-2012 05:27 PM #28
      Unfortunately you sold him 4 wheels. He got 2. Who's he supposed to open a claim with UPS? He didn't ship them and UPS won't talk to him.

      therefore whats he supposed to do?

      Ask any company that sells parts if this happens they are the ones that have to resolve it. So you have him ship the two wheels back. Refund his money. then you deal with UPS. Then try and sell two wheels.

      Sucks but in the end all he wants is his money back he doesn't care what you have to do for you to recoup the loss. I don't blame him.

      I would have only opened the claim with PayPal if you didn't refund my money back within a reasonable time. But that is just me I am nice
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    29. Member jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:28 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by supermega1 View Post
      Who's he supposed to open a claim with UPS? He didn't ship them and UPS won't talk to him.

      therefore whats he supposed to do?
      ding ding ding

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      10-09-2012 05:29 PM #30
      Had this happen to me.
      Once UPS left my package at some guys house w same last name. Different town and street.. Lucky they knew my cousin and I got the package.
      Second time they left the package on my previous adress. When I asked why, they said they searched my name and found that adress. No idea why they didn't ship to adress on the box.

      Both times I didn't bother the seller. They gave me tracking # w the right adress. Not their fault UPS screwed up.

      When shipping bigger more expensive stuff, use signature confirmation and insurance.
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    31. Member jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:32 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post

      Both times I didn't bother the seller. They gave me tracking # w the right adress. Not their fault UPS screwed up.
      That's because you got lucky and UPS/fate helped you find your stuff. That isn't always the case.

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      10-09-2012 05:34 PM #32
      I wont use UPS to ship car parts. ever.


      OP - you have 4 recpts showing these were shipped?
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      10-09-2012 05:34 PM #33
      be sure to provide paypal with any and all proof that you can muster...

      that you replied to texts.

      that the buyer refused to pay for shipping insurance.

      ups lost item/insurance forms.

      email threads.

      etc.

      i had a claim against me for a defective on arrival hdd. the ebay ad was shown to say no warranty/guarantee. the buyer declined to pay for insurance. i shipped 4 drives the same way, only 1... his arrived bad. not my fault. but he blamed my packaging (a hdd shipping box) and wanted a full refund.

      i agreed that if he shipped me the drive back i would give him a refund minus the $6 shipping.
      the buyer was unwilling to do that.

      i won. he got nothing.
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      10-09-2012 05:36 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Krazee View Post
      What happens when you track shipment?
      If you shipped 4 boxes, even with one tracking number, it's says how many are delivered.
      If all 4 delivered, your absolved. Buyer can't fake that.
      If he refused two packages, you'll get them back.

      With tracking numbers, it's hard for a dead-beat buyer to scam.
      Pay Pal requires a signature confirmation on sales over a certain dollar amount to be covered. I think it's $200. He can still lose out on the claim because of it.

      And OP is dumb for not paying for insurance. Yes, I just called you dumb. Always purchase the insurance and if you want include that in the shipping price with no ifs, ands, or buts about it. If a buyer absolutely will not buy something without you including insurance, you don't sale the item to them. It's that simple.

      Just take it as a lesson learned and make sure you read Pay Pal's seller protection guidelines on their site. It states on there was is required to be protected.

    35. Member jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 05:38 PM #35
      The point you all are missing is this... Yes, UPS is responsible for the lost package, but UPS is responsible ONLY to the shipper. They are not responsible to PayPal or the buyer, neither of those entities have any recourse with UPS, as they are not UPS's customer. Only the shipper can recover anything from UPS.

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