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    Thread: PayPal claim filed against me. What to do?

    1. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:35 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      Again, good luck with that.
      If I was a buyer and you pulled that kinda crap on me, my next call would be to my attorney, and you'd be issuing me a refund with a quickness.
      I think he's well within his rights to wait until he gets confirmation that the other 2 wheels have been dropped off for shipping.
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    2. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:38 PM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      I think he's well within his rights to wait until he gets confirmation that the other 2 wheels have been dropped off for shipping.
      That wasn't how I took what he was saying. My take was that if he were the seller in this case, he would not offer a refund to the buyer until he had resolved the claim with UPS.

    3. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:40 PM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      That wasn't how I took what he was saying. My take was that if he were the seller in this case, he would not offer a refund to the buyer until he had resolved the claim with UPS.
      Oh yeah. **** that. His dispute with UPS has nothing to do with buyer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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      10-09-2012 06:41 PM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by mike02467 View Post
      IDK man, I feel like they probably have more losses leaving packages on porches and in vestibules than the drivers ****ing up and going to the wrong address.
      I'd be curious what the actual theft rate is on UPS, Fed Ex, etc. I thought I had heard years ago that it was pretty high. Especially for drivers - all they have to do is drive to an address, scan the package into their system, and then drive off with it. As far as their computer system is concerned, the package was delivered because it was scanned. The fact that the driver never actually dropped it on the porch would not generally be known. I could imagine something like having a secondary vehicle parked along your route (or something similar) where you could drop the packages that you wanted to keep, who would know? GPS tracking on the truck would show you were on your route, the company computer system says it was delivered, and unless someone actually had video of you never showing up (which yes, I know, does seem to be becoming more popular nowadays), who would know? It's the buyer's word against the shipping company's computer system basically. The seller would rely on their tracking to show that it was delivered, they'd never know if it was actually stolen or not. Just sayin'......Anyone on here work or ever work for the major companies?

    5. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:43 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      I'd be curious what the actual theft rate is on UPS, Fed Ex, etc. I thought I had heard years ago that it was pretty high. Especially for drivers - all they have to do is drive to an address, scan the package into their system, and then drive off with it. As far as their computer system is concerned, the package was delivered because it was scanned. The fact that the driver never actually dropped it on the porch would not generally be known. I could imagine something like having a secondary vehicle parked along your route (or something similar) where you could drop the packages that you wanted to keep, who would know? GPS tracking on the truck would show you were on your route, the company computer system says it was delivered, and unless someone actually had video of you never showing up (which yes, I know, does seem to be becoming more popular nowadays), who would know? It's the buyer's word against the shipping company's computer system basically. The seller would rely on their tracking to show that it was delivered, they'd never know if it was actually stolen or not. Just sayin'......Anyone on here work or ever work for the major companies?
      My understanding is that most of the loss comes at the processing centers, not at the driver's end. It would be much easier to track driver's loss as it is checked out on the truck. One package would be a fluke, but enough to make it profitable would raise serious red flags.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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    6. Member phil123's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:45 PM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      Again, good luck with that.
      If I was a buyer and you pulled that kinda crap on me, my next call would be to my attorney, and you'd be issuing me a refund with a quickness.
      No I would not.

      Here is how the "scam" plays out.

      Seller sells the wheels
      Scammer reports that he only got 2
      Seller reports a claim to UPS
      Scammer reports a claim to paypal
      Seller refunds the money
      Scammer collects the money
      Sellers claim with UPS is resolved with the wheels being delivered to the person.

      So in this situation, the buyer/scammer would get 4 wheels and 1/2 his money back.

      What Gaston SHOULD do, in my opinion, is file the claim, BUT ALSO TELL UPS THAT IF THE PACKAGE IS FOUND TO RETURN IT TO YOU AND NOT TO SEND IT TO THE BUYER

      The default method is to ship it to the destination. I do believe UPS will charge you for the shipping to your residence/work, but its better than losing all the money.
      Last edited by phil123; 10-09-2012 at 06:48 PM.
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    7. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:45 PM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      I'd be curious what the actual theft rate is on UPS, Fed Ex, etc. I thought I had heard years ago that it was pretty high. Especially for drivers - all they have to do is drive to an address, scan the package into their system, and then drive off with it. As far as their computer system is concerned, the package was delivered because it was scanned. The fact that the driver never actually dropped it on the porch would not generally be known. I could imagine something like having a secondary vehicle parked along your route (or something similar) where you could drop the packages that you wanted to keep, who would know? GPS tracking on the truck would show you were on your route, the company computer system says it was delivered, and unless someone actually had video of you never showing up (which yes, I know, does seem to be becoming more popular nowadays), who would know? It's the buyer's word against the shipping company's computer system basically. The seller would rely on their tracking to show that it was delivered, they'd never know if it was actually stolen or not. Just sayin'......Anyone on here work or ever work for the major companies?

      How many packages go missing on a particular driver's route before someone starts noticing?

    8. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:47 PM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by phil123 View Post
      No I would not.

      Here is how the "scam" plays out.

      Seller sells the wheels
      Scammer reports that he only got 2
      Seller reports a claim to UPS
      Scammer reports a claim to paypal
      Seller refunds the money
      Scammer collects the money
      Sellers claim with UPS is resolved with the wheels being delivered to the person.

      So in this situation, the buyer/scammer would get 4 wheels and 1/2 his money back.

      What Gaston SHOULD do, in my opinion, is file the claim, BUT ALSO TELL UPS THAT IF THE PACKAGE IS FOUND TO RETURN IT TO YOU AND NOT TO SEND IT TO THE SHIPPER

      The default method is to ship it to the destination. I do believe UPS will charge you for the shipping to your residence/work, but its better than losing all the money.
      Wow, no. Once the seller began the claim with UPS and issued the refund, if and when the wheels were found they would be returned to the seller. If UPS ended up sending the wheels the buyer at the conclusion of that, the seller would be notified and would then have recourse against the buyer for the property or the amount refunded. You apparently have a 6 years old's understanding of consumer transactions.

    9. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:49 PM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by phil123 View Post
      No I would not.

      Here is how the "scam" plays out.

      Seller sells the wheels
      Scammer reports that he only got 2
      Seller reports a claim to UPS
      Scammer reports a claim to paypal
      Seller refunds the money
      Scammer collects the money
      Sellers claim with UPS is resolved with the wheels being delivered to the person.

      So in this situation, the buyer/scammer would get 4 wheels and 1/2 his money back.

      What Gaston SHOULD do, in my opinion, is file the claim, BUT ALSO TELL UPS THAT IF THE PACKAGE IS FOUND TO RETURN IT TO YOU AND NOT TO SEND IT TO THE SHIPPER

      The default method is to ship it to the destination. I do believe UPS will charge you for the shipping to your residence/work, but its better than losing all the money.
      Uhm, UPS says the wheels haven't been delivered. They are lost in the system. Barring a massive glitch in UPS that the buyer would have no control over, no one disputes that they weren't delivered. Barring the possible unfounded claim about OP being uncommunicative, buyer is the most innocent party here.
      ---
      Somewhere, possibly on TCL, there is another thread where the buyer is bitching that OP scammed him, send him 2 of 4 wheels and won't give him the money back. And because in that community, OP is a member, a part of the club, everyone is rallying support around him. And that amuses the **** out of me.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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    10. Member phil123's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:50 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      Wow, no. Once the seller began the claim with UPS and issued the refund, if and when the wheels were found they would be returned to the seller. If UPS ended up sending the wheels the buyer at the conclusion of that, the seller would be notified and would then have recourse against the buyer for the property or the amount refunded. You apparently have a 6 years old's understanding of consumer transactions.
      Have you actually gone through the process or are you just talking out your ass?

      This happened about 6 months ago with a steering wheel that I shipped.

      I did EXACTLY what I said and had it handled in a much more timely situation than what you are saying.
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      10-09-2012 06:50 PM #111
      Hence why I make people pay me as a "gift" = no claims process

    12. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:52 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by TooFitToQuit View Post
      Hence why I make people pay me as a "gift" = no claims process
      You know that is one of the biggest scam flags out there?
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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    13. Member phil123's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:52 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      Uhm, UPS says the wheels haven't been delivered. They are lost in the system. Barring a massive glitch in UPS that the buyer would have no control over, no one disputes that they weren't delivered. Barring the possible unfounded claim about OP being uncommunicative, buyer is the most innocent party here.
      If Gaston has told UPS to return the wheels to him if found I have no issues with him issuing the person a refund.
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      10-09-2012 06:53 PM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by phil123 View Post
      No I would not.

      Here is how the "scam" plays out.

      Seller sells the wheels
      Scammer reports that he only got 2
      .
      Scammer? Really? The BUYER did not recieve all 4 wheels which he PAID for. How is he a Scammer? get real.

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      10-09-2012 06:53 PM #115
      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      You know that is one of the biggest scam flags out there?
      I just sold about ten different transactions all paid as gifts. With good contact, they couldn't care less.

    16. Member phil123's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:53 PM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by a2a4raddo View Post
      Scammer? Really? The BUYER did not recieve all 4 wheels which he PAID for. How is he a Scammer? get real.
      if he was running a scam...
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    17. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:54 PM #117
      Quote Originally Posted by phil123 View Post
      If Gaston has told UPS to return the wheels to him if found I have no issues with him issuing the person a refund.
      I was assuming he's not a moron, and he did that.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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    18. Member phil123's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:55 PM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      I was assuming he's not a moron, and he did that.
      He did post on the car lounge on what he should do...

      j/k, i'm sure i've met Gaston and just giving him some sh!t
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      10-09-2012 06:58 PM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by TooFitToQuit View Post
      Hence why I make people pay me as a "gift" = no claims process
      Yeeeeah, don't do that.

      If Paypal see you are accepting payment for goods under the gift option they will try to **** you so hard it's not even funny.

      They make it so miserable that there are actually forums out there dedicated to dealing with this issue.

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      10-09-2012 06:59 PM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by Harv View Post
      Yeeeeah, don't do that.

      If Paypal see you are accepting payment for goods under the gift option they will try to **** you so hard it's not even funny.

      They make it so miserable that there are actually forums out there dedicated to dealing with this issue.

      Seriously?

      I've only done it about 40 times and not very frequently.

    21. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:59 PM #121
      Quote Originally Posted by phil123 View Post
      Have you actually gone through the process or are you just talking out your ass?

      This happened about 6 months ago with a steering wheel that I shipped.

      I did EXACTLY what I said and had it handled in a much more timely situation than what you are saying.
      Once a buyer/consumer requests and receives a refund for a purchased item never received, he forfeits any right to the item in question. Now, can the consumer still steal it? Possibly. But the threat of someone stealing from you does not give you the right to improperly withhold a refund for products never delivered.
      If you as a seller file a claim with UPS for a lost item for which you have refunded the buyer, the package or compensation will be sent to you the seller upon resolution of the claim, not the buyer. Any shipment of the goods to the buyer at that point would have occurred in error and you would have legal recourse to have the property or cash equivalent returned to you by the buyer.
      There is a correct way to conduct business, and a shady/internet/mom's basement way to conduct business. You apparently prefer the latter.
      Last edited by jrmcm; 10-09-2012 at 07:02 PM.

    22. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:00 PM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by Harv View Post
      Yeeeeah, don't do that.

      If Paypal see you are accepting payment for goods under the gift option they will try to **** you so hard it's not even funny.

      They make it so miserable that there are actually forums out there dedicated to dealing with this issue.
      That too. Even with legit gifts, they will freeze your account pretty quick if you have any volume.
      Note that if I do a PP with a credit card (via gift or other), I can cancel that transaction and PP will probably **** you even harder than they would through dispute resolution.

      Quote Originally Posted by TooFitToQuit View Post
      Seriously?

      I've only done it about 40 times and not very frequently.
      Yes, talk to somethingawful about their Katrina donations. And that was real gifts.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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    23. Member phil123's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:04 PM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      Once a buyer/consumer requests and receives a refund for a purchased item never received, he forfeits any right to the item in question. Now, can the consumer still steal it? Possibly. But the threat of someone stealing from you does not give you the right to improperly withhold a refund for products never delivered.
      If you as a seller file a claim with UPS for a lost item for which you have refunded the buyer, the package or compensation will be sent to you the seller upon resolution of the claim, not the buyer. Any shipment of the goods to the buyer at that point would have occurred in error and you would have legal recourse to have the property or cash equivalent returned to you by the buyer.
      There is a correct way to conduct business, and a shady/internet/mom's basement way to conduct business. You apparently prefer the latter.
      I have bolded the incorrect portion. The package, if found, will be sent to the buyer, UNLESS you tell UPS to ship the package back to you.

      And your assumptions are not correct.
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      10-09-2012 07:06 PM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by phil123 View Post
      I have bolded the incorrect portion.

      And your assumptions are not correct.
      Yes they are. Any shipment of the goods to the buyer at that point is in error (I'm not saying it doesn't happen). If it is shipped to the buyer, you would be notified, and would then have recourse with the buyer to collect YOUR property or money.

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      10-09-2012 07:09 PM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      Yes they are. Any shipment of the goods to the buyer at that point is in error (I'm not saying it doesn't happen). If it is shipped to the buyer, you would be notified, and would then have recourse with the buyer to collect YOUR property or money.
      Yes, and at what point is it not worth it?
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