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    Thread: PayPal claim filed against me. What to do?

    1. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:11 PM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by phil123 View Post
      Yes, and at what point is it not worth it?
      I guess that's up to you to decide for yourself. But again, that does not make it acceptable for you to improperly withhold a refund.

    2. Moderator Harv's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:11 PM #127
      Quote Originally Posted by TooFitToQuit View Post
      Seriously?

      I've only done it about 40 times and not very frequently.
      http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/o...s-anymore.html


      I have a Paypal account currently frozen since December 17th for 180 days (6 months) with $10k in it. It's locked until June 17th.

      I was sending a lot of Gift payments to a lot of people & I was sending Gift payments for my thread on here:
      http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/n...s-etc-etc.html

      They sent me an email saying there was suspicious activity & they needed my license, a bill to my confirmed address, phone bill to verify the number they had on file etc all to be faxed to them.

      I figured no problem & sent them what they asked for.

      They then emailed me back saying the fax wasn't clear. I went to Fedex/Kinkos & the fax was fine. So I did it again & they sent an email saying they needed a fax of my social security card & a credit card statement in my name to my confirmed address. I felt like that was way too much information to be sending to India. (And before you ask, this was not a scam, always updated IN Paypal & always verified by calling Paypal).

      So finally when I told them I wasn't going to send them a copy of my SS# & credit card information, they told me they are locking my account for 180 days (6 months) & I'll have to wait until that time is up to withdraw my money or request a check.

      After all this happened to me, I started doing my research & it seems Paypal shuts down a TON of accounts every day for any kind of reason.

      I now never send any payments as gift or anything personal through the Paypal account that I still have running. If that account were to also be locked, my business would be devastated.

      They are cracking down on money laundering and I guess with all of the gift payments being sent every which direction it's easy to launder money around.

      EDIT:
      I would advise to never keep any kind of substantial amount of money in the account because Paypal can lock it at any moment without a reason. Paypal is NOT a bank, they don't have the same rules as banks do. Paypal can & will lock your account for any reason they see fit. They have over 10k of mine locked up for 6 months invested in a money market account gaining THEM interest. Will I see any of that interest? NO.

      I have read that at any given time Paypal has over $1 Billion dollars locked up collecting interest.

    3. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:13 PM #128
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      Yes they are. Any shipment of the goods to the buyer at that point is in error (I'm not saying it doesn't happen). If it is shipped to the buyer, you would be notified, and would then have recourse with the buyer to collect YOUR property or money.
      I have to agree with Mr. 123 here, you should just call UPS and change the delivery address of the two missing packages to your address (this is really easy) and reverse the transaction. At minimum to avoid having to pay return shipping.

      I also don't understand why we're picking over nits. Oh wait, TCL does as TCL does.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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    4. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:15 PM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      I have to agree with Mr. 123 here, you should just call UPS and change the delivery address of the two missing packages to your address (this is really easy) and reverse the transaction. At minimum to avoid having to pay return shipping.

      I also don't understand why we're picking over nits. Oh wait, TCL does as TCL does.
      My point is, once you start a claim with them, they are going to return the package to you if found, unless they f*@k up, which I concede can happen, and is the reason I laid out the notion of recourse at that point.
      And yes of course you can reiterate to them that you want the shipment sent back to you if found. But still, that has nothing to do with not paying the buyer the refund until the UPS claim is settled and paid with you.

    5. Member phil123's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:18 PM #130
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      I guess that's up to you to decide for yourself. But again, that does not make it acceptable for you to improperly withhold a refund.
      Mine example was $200, and I believe Gastons is in the $1600 range.

      Then again norcal is only about 6 hours away
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    6. Member TooFitToQuit's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:18 PM #131
      I've had issues with PP before, resulting in frozen accounts. Luckily I keep a $0.00 balance.

    7. Member wowitsgaston's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:19 PM #132
      Hello everyone. Thank you all for your responses whether they were helpful, funny, stupid, etc. Anyway, to answer some of your questions and concerns:

      Quote Originally Posted by Krazee View Post
      What happens when you track shipment?
      If you shipped 4 boxes, even with one tracking number, it's says how many are delivered.
      If all 4 delivered, your absolved. Buyer can't fake that.
      If he refused two packages, you'll get them back.

      With tracking numbers, it's hard for a dead-beat buyer to scam.
      The wheels were shipped in 4 different packages with 4 different tracking numbers. 2 of them made it. One is in Anaheim and the other is in Ontario, both nowhere near their original destination.

      Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownA34DR View Post
      That is the problem with Paypal. The buyer is always right. IMO, the shipper is at fault and the buyer did not opt for the insurance. It is a matter of a claim between the buyer and shipper in my eyes, but Paypal will side otherwise. It is a shame.

      I assume you have all the shipping information i.e. tracking number and receipt of shipment that UPS gives? Those might save your anus....
      I do have all receipts given to me, however, when I talked to a PayPal rep today, she said that I might just be SOL even though I have everything documented. She agreed with the fact that it wasn't my fault, but they do not deal with UPS directly.

      Quote Originally Posted by abeR View Post
      I wont use UPS to ship car parts. ever.


      OP - you have 4 recpts showing these were shipped?
      yes

      Quote Originally Posted by FACTORYBOOST View Post
      Change your phone number, close your Paypal account and move.

      Just kidding, but I would definitely be all over UPS about the missing 2 wheels.
      The claim filed with UPS has been closed, and the wheels are officially lost. UPS sent a check to the UPS store where I shipped them from, and it should be ready for me in the following day or 2. The problem is that it is only $100/package, and we all know that RS's are not $100 wheels.

      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      I'm pretty sure it is on the seller unless you explicitly offered to buy insurance for an extra charge, and he declined.

      Think about it this way: If you order something from Amazon, and it doesn't get here, who do you expect to eat the cost? Amazon. Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer.


      And for those screaming scam: OP states he tracked them and the two wheels were listed as not delivered.

      You should, however, go after UPS for whatever you can get.
      See above. I've tried with UPS, but they can suck my dick. It really sucks.

      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      To the posters saying the buyer is a scammer- UPS lost the wheels, how does that make the buyer a scammer?
      I'm still trying to figure out why people are saying I'm getting scammed lol

      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      OP not insuring these wheels was stupid.
      I agree. I just didn't think that it would be on me to pay for it.

      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      It's a pretty simple process.

      Buyer collects refund from seller.
      Seller collects compensation from UPS.
      Seller learns lesson regarding shipping insurance.
      yes. Never shipping anything expensive without insurance ever again. It sucks, and I hate my life for it, especially if I lose this case.


      Quote Originally Posted by phil123 View Post
      Just out of curiousity, who is this guy in NORCAL?
      I don't think it would be smart of me to post his name lol

      Quote Originally Posted by phil123 View Post
      No I would not.

      Here is how the "scam" plays out.

      Seller sells the wheels
      Scammer reports that he only got 2
      Seller reports a claim to UPS
      Scammer reports a claim to paypal
      Seller refunds the money
      Scammer collects the money
      Sellers claim with UPS is resolved with the wheels being delivered to the person.

      So in this situation, the buyer/scammer would get 4 wheels and 1/2 his money back.

      What Gaston SHOULD do, in my opinion, is file the claim, BUT ALSO TELL UPS THAT IF THE PACKAGE IS FOUND TO RETURN IT TO YOU AND NOT TO SEND IT TO THE BUYER

      The default method is to ship it to the destination. I do believe UPS will charge you for the shipping to your residence/work, but its better than losing all the money.
      Like I said, I'm almost positive it's not a scam. The tracking numbers show that 2 of the wheels never made it. The buyer never received 2 of the wheels and wants his money back for not receiving them.
      ۟roJerks

      Let's help Colin!

    8. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:21 PM #133
      The good news is that none of these wheels are listed as delivered. There's probably at least a 50% chance you'll get them back. Eventually.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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    9. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:21 PM #134
      Very clearly you owe your buyer a refund for 2 wheels.

    10. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:22 PM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      The good news is that none of these wheels are listed as delivered. There's probably at least a 50% chance you'll get them back. Eventually.
      Probably so. Boxes that large are likely to be noticed

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      10-09-2012 07:24 PM #136
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      How many packages go missing on a particular driver's route before someone starts noticing?
      Well obviously this isn't something you would do on a daily basis - but every once in a while? Maybe. People have already said that packages go "missing" all the time (dropped at wrong houses, etc.). Again, obviously if you had ten packages go "missing" on any given day and were establishing a pattern, someone would notice. But every once in a while, I would think you'd be OK.

      The whole thing is kind of shady anyway and I can feel everyone's pain on both sides. I've had very little interaction with Pay Pal, but what little I've done has been positive. I've only ever had one thing that I ordered not show up and the seller sent me another one with no questions asked. I'll definitely do the insurance thing the next time I do anything after reading this though.

    12. Member TM87's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:24 PM #137
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      My point is, once you start a claim with them, they are going to return the package to you if found, unless they f*@k up, which I concede can happen, and is the reason I laid out the notion of recourse at that point.
      And yes of course you can reiterate to them that you want the shipment sent back to you if found. But still, that has nothing to do with not paying the buyer the refund until the UPS claim is settled and paid with you.
      Since you are pushing so hard on refund I have a question for you:
      -would you refund all the money w out buyer sending you 2 wheels back or wait till you receive 2 wheels then issue a refund??
      "Your pants too tight,your wheels too bright"

    13. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:25 PM #138
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      Well obviously this isn't something you would do on a daily basis - but every once in a while? Maybe. People have already said that packages go "missing" all the time (dropped at wrong houses, etc.). Again, obviously if you had ten packages go "missing" on any given day and were establishing a pattern, someone would notice. But every once in a while, I would think you'd be OK.
      Eh, they lose a lot fewer than you think. That said, a decent reason to go signature required.

      I do like that fedex will now just deliver to the nearest Kinkos. Much easier and safer.
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    14. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:27 PM #139
      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
      Since you are pushing so hard on refund I have a question for you:
      -would you refund all the money w out buyer sending you 2 wheels back or wait till you receive 2 wheels then issue a refund??
      My personal preference would be to arrange to have the two wheels he did receive shipped back to me and issue a refund for all 4. That way if I ever recovered the lost two, I'd have the full set, which would be easier to sell. As for the timing of the refund. It's basically just another sale transaction, him selling me back the wheels at the original price. Go through paypal again, and I'd have the same rights he did if I sent him the money and I never received the wheels.

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      10-09-2012 07:27 PM #140
      Two words that will save you loads of trouble in the future: Signature confirmation
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      10-09-2012 07:28 PM #141
      Quote Originally Posted by wowitsgaston View Post
      The claim filed with UPS has been closed, and the wheels are officially lost. UPS sent a check to the UPS store where I shipped them from, and it should be ready for me in the following day or 2. The problem is that it is only $100/package, and we all know that RS's are not $100 wheels.
      That sucks.
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      10-09-2012 07:34 PM #142
      Quote Originally Posted by wowitsgaston View Post
      The claim filed with UPS has been closed, and the wheels are officially lost. UPS sent a check to the UPS store where I shipped them from, and it should be ready for me in the following day or 2. The problem is that it is only $100/package, and we all know that RS's are not $100 wheels.
      Don't want to rub it in or beat a dead horse... but damn, you didn't insure $2K+ worth of product?

    18. Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:41 PM #143
      Quote Originally Posted by stascom View Post
      Don't want to rub it in or beat a dead horse... but damn, you didn't insure $2K+ worth of product?
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    19. Banned jrmcm's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:42 PM #144
      What value did you declare on the shipping form, out of curiosity?

    20. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:48 PM #145
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      What value did you declare on the shipping form, out of curiosity?
      Yeah, this. Because you might have a recourse if you declared a higher value (but they also charge you more).
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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    21. Member TM87's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:49 PM #146
      Quote Originally Posted by jrmcm View Post
      My personal preference would be to arrange to have the two wheels he did receive shipped back to me and issue a refund for all 4. That way if I ever recovered the lost two, I'd have the full set, which would be easier to sell. As for the timing of the refund. It's basically just another sale transaction, him selling me back the wheels at the original price. Go through paypal again, and I'd have the same rights he did if I sent him the money and I never received the wheels.
      I would issue a full refund AFTER I receive my 2 wheels. Just in case.
      Other business also wait for item to be received before issuing a refund.

      Sucks for OP, but I'm not crying over a set of RS s.lol
      "Your pants too tight,your wheels too bright"

    22. Member phil123's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:49 PM #147
      Quote Originally Posted by stascom View Post
      Don't want to rub it in or beat a dead horse... but damn, you didn't insure $2K+ worth of product?
      $1600 or less. Learn to search newb.
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    23. Banned Tiny4cyl's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:49 PM #148
      OP is the biggest dumbsh1t ever.

      Here's the rules:


      - Signature confirmation required on $250 and up or the buyer instantly wins. I always tell the buyer and most of the time they're like no, I can't be at home and I'm like oh okay I'll waive and and send it signature required anyways LOL What do I care about their life, I already have their money (sad, but true )

      - UPS/FedEx and USPS EMS (EMS ONLY) give you $100 free, it's up to you to purchase any additional amount. UPS doesn't know that you didn't ship Rotas nor are they going to listen to you yabber about lightweight forged alloy wheels.

      - Always insure your stuff. You just learned perhaps the most expensive lesson of your life. Suck it up, don't let it hurt your butt too long and moveeeeeee on.

      - Don't trust anyone. Not shipping carriers, not your customers, not your mom I'm talking fcuking no one. Trust yourself only.


      Now OP is out the money, the wheels and his pride while dickface in NorCal has two wheels for free. He's not going to ship them back and PayPal is going to give him a full refund.

    24. Member phil123's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 07:54 PM #149
      So do we have any international shipping experts?

      Will USPS insure you to other countries? I generally ship UPS, about 98% of the time.
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      10-09-2012 07:58 PM #150
      my two cents:
      • ebay/paypal enforce a system whereby the seller has to act like a good business does, under the notion that the customer is always right. people don't always realize the overhead and care that's required to live up to this standard. I'm not saying OP had any bad intentions (and he seems to fully accept the state of things), but these rules do their best to marginalize people acting as if a sale is a casual thing.
      • don't conduct any communications outside of the ebay mail system.

      Not an enthusiast.

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