PayPal claim filed against me. What to do?

[TM87]

Why? The OP is not a business. They're just two people exchanging things. Why do the buyer's things (dollars) take precedent over the seller's things (wheels)?

THIS!!

If you have a PM or Text from buyer saying he refuses insurance, then it shouldnt be your fault.
Work w the UPS to find the wheels and ship them to you or the buyer. If the buyer refuse, request the wheels he recieved back, and refund him 1/2 of the money till you sort it out w UPS. When the other two wheels arrive or are compensated for, refund the buyer.

Take it as a leason and dont sell stuff to people who dont want to pay insurance.

[jrmcm]

Yes, I've shipped many valuable things, and had many valuable things shipped to me.

When I'm having something expensive shipped to me, I get insurance.

You understand that it is the seller that actually purchases the shipping insurance, correct?

[jrmcm]

THIS!!

If you have a PM or Text from buyer saying he refuses insurance, then it shouldnt be your fault.
Work w the UPS to find the wheels and ship them to you or the buyer. If the buyer refuse, request the wheels he recieved back, and refund him 1/2 of the money till you sort it out w UPS. When the other two wheels arrive or are compensated for, refund the buyer.

Take it as a leason and dont sell stuff to people who dont want to pay insurance.

Good luck with that

[allroad]

THIS!!

If you have a PM or Text from buyer saying he refuses insurance, then it shouldnt be your fault.
Work w the UPS to find the wheels and ship them to you or the buyer. If the buyer refuse, request the wheels he recieved back, and refund him 1/2 of the money till you sort it out w UPS. When the other two wheels arrive or are compensated for, refund the buyer.

Take it as a leason and dont sell stuff to people who dont want to pay insurance.

OMG. Learn first THEN post. Did you even THINK about it before typing?

[SSLByron]

You understand that it is the seller that actually purchases the shipping insurance, correct?

I've arranged shipping for items I've purchased before. It's nice to control that aspect of the transaction from top to bottom. Schedule a pickup (or arrange for the seller to make the drop-off), insure it for the value you want it insured for, and you're set.

You understand that some of these problems arise from being cheap and lazy with shipping options, right?

[Village Idiot™]

Why? The OP is not a business. They're just two people exchanging things. Why do the buyer's things (dollars) take precedent over the seller's things (wheels)?

It's called personal responsibility. It doesn't matter if it's face to face or over the internet. You can't expect someone else to cover your ass for you. It's like meeting up with someone from out of town and letting them test drive a car they're interested in buying without going with them or taking a check to cover any possible damages. It's stupid not to.

It doesn't matter if you're running a business or not, you have to cover your own ass.

[Uberhare]

False. As stated, seller is responsible for recouping from claim if the items are lost or damaged while shipping. It's your responsibility to cover your own ass. Either add the charge in the shipping cost, eat it from your item cost, or don't ship. It's that simple and it's the seller's fault for not covering their own ass.

I feel like a broken record in a large echoing room.

You're 100% correct.

I've shipped many items via UPS, FedEx, USPS. I shipped a set of Mk4 R32 coilovers several years ago in which UPS damaged the box and lost some of the parts. I had insurance and filed a claim but it still took over a month for them to resolve it. Fill out forms, send them in, get a case number, contact UPS persons, go back and forth via email and phone, etc......it took up a lot of my time to get it resolved.

Point being, UPS can and will be very difficult to deal with even if you have a legit claim. Prepare for a battle. And if the seller shipped without insurance......good luck. You'll need it.

[stascom]

You used PayPal. Joke's on you. Wrestle it out with UPS. PayPal won't help you.

[SSLByron]

Because the contract was for seller to deliver the object to buyer's address. He (via his contractor) failed.

I'd be interested in your take on the buyer lying about the OP's efforts to right the situation.

[jrmcm]

I'd be interested in your take on the buyer lying about the OP's efforts to right the situation.

I know you didn't ask me, but... Unsavory, but ultimately has no bearing on liability in this circumstance. Really, the buyer wasted his breath with it.

[abeR]

I'd be interested in your take on the buyer lying about the OP's efforts to right the situation.

still has nothing to do with the fact that the seller is responsible for his own loss.

[jrmcm]

I've arranged shipping for items I've purchased before. It's nice to control that aspect of the transaction from top to bottom. Schedule a pickup (or arrange for the seller to make the drop-off), insure it for the value you want it insured for, and you're set.

You understand that some of these problems arise from being cheap and lazy with shipping options, right?

That's fine if a buyer wants to go that route. Most don't, and even some sellers won't allow for it. You know as well as I do that the typical transaction involves the seller purchasing the shipping.

[Hostile]

You understand that it is the seller that actually purchases the shipping insurance, correct?

And if the OP had just sucked it up and paid for it himself he wouldn't be in this predicament. Or are you being sarcastic again...?

[greyvdub]

legally it is your responsibility to get the package to the buyer, this is why you insure packages (for your OWN sake, NOT the buyer's)

sorry man, this will be pinned on you here.

[jrmcm]

And if the OP had just sucked it up and paid for it himself he wouldn't be in this predicament. Or are you being sarcastic again...?

I never said he shouldn't have. You're annoying.

[Uberhare]

It's amazing to read how many people don't know how shipping via UPS works and how Paypal works. The truely scary thing is how many people think it's always the other person's fault or somehow the other person has to be the responsible party. Fact is, whenever you deal with ANYTHING online you always have to cover yourself.


It makes for an entertaining thread to read at work.....

[dmorrow]

I'd be interested in your take on the buyer lying about the OP's efforts to right the situation.

The fact that there was multiple texts and calls and it wasn't resolved tells me the Buyer was correct. Buyer - "2 wheels didn't get here, I can send them back and will need a full refund or you can supply 2 more wheels that I haven't received. You are welcome to try to work this out with UPS".

After this what else could or should the buyer do besides file a claim with Paypal? OP said wheels were lost by UPS.

[mike02467]

I'd bet almost anything that the overwhelming #1 reason for package loss is them leaving packages at the wrong address and people keeping other people's sh!t.

UPS once left a set of shocks & springs I'd ordered at the wrong house, three streets over, with a totally different house number. Nothing about the address was remotely close or easily confused. Luckily, the people that received it brought it to me after I chewed UPS a new a$$hole and let the company I purchased from have it as well when they told me I was s.o.l.

IDK man, I feel like they probably have more losses leaving packages on porches and in vestibules than the drivers ****ing up and going to the wrong address.

[mad8vgti]

same deal here. the paypal will always side with the buyer. paypal sucks.

[jrmcm]

same deal here. the paypal will always side with the buyer. paypal sucks.

How are they wrong in this instance?

[jrmcm]

IDK man, I feel like they probably have more losses leaving packages on porches and in vestibules than the drivers ****ing up and going to the wrong address.

I could be made to believe that pretty easily

[greyvdub]

same deal here. the paypal will always side with the buyer. paypal sucks.

a lost/damanged package is the seller's fault, not the buyer's, this is why PayPal usually sides with Buyers

[nm+]

I know you didn't ask me, but... Unsavory, but ultimately has no bearing on liability in this circumstance. Really, the buyer wasted his breath with it.

This. Because UPS shows the items as undelivered and doesn't seem to dispute they lost them, the buyer's credibility is irrelevant.

In the case you provided, where you paid for the insurance and shipping, that contract is different. In that case, you have paid to have the item delivered to UPS. If the seller fails to do that, he his still liable.

This is why in commerce things like FOB [City] are fairly important.

[a2a4raddo]

The fact that there was multiple texts and calls and it wasn't resolved tells me the Buyer was correct. Buyer - "2 wheels didn't get here, I can send them back and will need a full refund or you can supply 2 more wheels that I haven't received. You are welcome to try to work this out with UPS".

After this what else could or should the buyer do besides file a claim with Paypal? OP said wheels were lost by UPS.

I sold a Ducati 2 Seat Tail that was misrepresented in the ad on ebay. My Wife misrepresented it (not intentionally) as being brand new rather then being an item with "new paint". The Color was not a 100% match. As a seller, i gave the buyer options...i can either partially refund his money and sell the item for half price, or he could ship back and i will reinburse him the full amount including shipping costs. He chose option 2 and i took a big hit (shipping costs X 2 on the item).

IDK man, I feel like they probably have more losses leaving packages on porches and in vestibules than the drivers ****ing up and going to the wrong address.

I agree with this. I had a package shipped to me which was left on my front steps. UPS had the item as delivered. It was never delivered, that or someone walked by and stole the item before i got home. The Seller sent me a new item at cost and then dealt with UPS to get a reinbursement for the original. Thats how it works. The Seller is always responsible. Not the buyer.


The Correct course of action for the OP is to first reinburse the buyer for the 2 wheels. Which will handle the paypal situation. Then he needs to deal with UPS himself in regards to getting his money back from them or getting the wheels back from them. If the whees were sold for over $100.00 each, then hopefully they find them...otherwise he is taking a loss.

[Hurt]

Buyer is 100% scamming you.

If you supplied the buyer with tracking info, then it's on ups, not you, to resolve this. It's the dumbass buyers fault for not opting for insurance. He did that on purpose to scam you. Insurance is cheap, so no excuse. As soon as you handed the product over to ups, it's on them to deliver. I tell this to anyone buying from me. As soon as it leaves my hands (as by providing tracking info to buyer as proof) I'm resolved of all responsibility.

x 10000000000000000000000000000000001

[jrmcm]

x 10000000000000000000000000000000001

No x 20000000000000000000000000000000002

[Aonarch]

I think this thread jinxed me. A buyer is trying to scam me right now...

[phil123]

I'll throw my 2 cents in.

Domestic packages always insure for the full value. I have had a "lost" package with UPS, and guess what, they found it in one of their hubs.

I forget what the time frame is, but there is diffently a time frame in which UPS has to recover your package BEFORE they pay you out the insurance figure. 3 days before the deadline they found the steering wheel.

Meaning I would NOT refund the guy his money until you have the money/wheels/something from UPS.

Just out of curiousity, who is this guy in NORCAL?

[TheGreenspanator]

This.
Welcome to being a seller using Paypal. You are 99% of the time in the wrong no matter what the facts are for the case

x11ty. You can't even open a claim against a buyer who's trying to blackmail you/commit fraud. Buyers have all the rights now

Sent from my shoe phone

[jrmcm]

Meaning I would NOT refund the guy his money until you have the money/wheels/something from UPS.

Again, good luck with that.
If I was a buyer and you pulled that kinda crap on me, my next call would be to my attorney, and you'd be issuing me a refund with a quickness.

[nm+]

Again, good luck with that.
If I was a buyer and you pulled that kinda crap on me, my next call would be to my attorney, and you'd be issuing me a refund with a quickness.

I think he's well within his rights to wait until he gets confirmation that the other 2 wheels have been dropped off for shipping.

[jrmcm]

I think he's well within his rights to wait until he gets confirmation that the other 2 wheels have been dropped off for shipping.

That wasn't how I took what he was saying. My take was that if he were the seller in this case, he would not offer a refund to the buyer until he had resolved the claim with UPS.

[nm+]

That wasn't how I took what he was saying. My take was that if he were the seller in this case, he would not offer a refund to the buyer until he had resolved the claim with UPS.

Oh yeah. **** that. His dispute with UPS has nothing to do with buyer.

[MeineFolks'wagen]

IDK man, I feel like they probably have more losses leaving packages on porches and in vestibules than the drivers ****ing up and going to the wrong address.

I'd be curious what the actual theft rate is on UPS, Fed Ex, etc. I thought I had heard years ago that it was pretty high. Especially for drivers - all they have to do is drive to an address, scan the package into their system, and then drive off with it. As far as their computer system is concerned, the package was delivered because it was scanned. The fact that the driver never actually dropped it on the porch would not generally be known. I could imagine something like having a secondary vehicle parked along your route (or something similar) where you could drop the packages that you wanted to keep, who would know? GPS tracking on the truck would show you were on your route, the company computer system says it was delivered, and unless someone actually had video of you never showing up (which yes, I know, does seem to be becoming more popular nowadays), who would know? It's the buyer's word against the shipping company's computer system basically. The seller would rely on their tracking to show that it was delivered, they'd never know if it was actually stolen or not. Just sayin'......Anyone on here work or ever work for the major companies?

[nm+]

I'd be curious what the actual theft rate is on UPS, Fed Ex, etc. I thought I had heard years ago that it was pretty high. Especially for drivers - all they have to do is drive to an address, scan the package into their system, and then drive off with it. As far as their computer system is concerned, the package was delivered because it was scanned. The fact that the driver never actually dropped it on the porch would not generally be known. I could imagine something like having a secondary vehicle parked along your route (or something similar) where you could drop the packages that you wanted to keep, who would know? GPS tracking on the truck would show you were on your route, the company computer system says it was delivered, and unless someone actually had video of you never showing up (which yes, I know, does seem to be becoming more popular nowadays), who would know? It's the buyer's word against the shipping company's computer system basically. The seller would rely on their tracking to show that it was delivered, they'd never know if it was actually stolen or not. Just sayin'......Anyone on here work or ever work for the major companies?

My understanding is that most of the loss comes at the processing centers, not at the driver's end. It would be much easier to track driver's loss as it is checked out on the truck. One package would be a fluke, but enough to make it profitable would raise serious red flags.