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    Thread: Corvette fail video - Is it really that hard to keep it going straight ?

    1. Member Lexi's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 09:47 PM #1
      As some of you know I just picked up a Z06 as a track toy so naturally I'm checking out track/autox videos on youtube and came across this vette fail compilation. Not exactly what I wanted to see but figured it would be good to watch so I can see how a vette looses it and perhaps learn from it. I have to say, coming from the Subaru camp I'm amazed at how fast these things seem to spin out of control. I know its a whole different world going from 250-350hp through AWD to 400+ RWD but I have a hard time believing what I'm seeing with some of these clips. Obvioulsy the car isn't that hard to drive or else they'd all be wrecks by now. Think most of this is a result of driving on cold/cheap/worn tires, traction control being turned off / completely inexperienced drivers mashing the loud pedal instead of easing into it ?

      The first video with the white C6 really gets me, he's driving clean overall, looks calm and collected then gets into the slalom and the car just slides out like its on snow. Wow ! And some of the street hooliganism vids, even at highway speeds some of the cars fishtail the just loose it. I'm not worried as I don't plan on driving like an idiot but I"m curious since I have little seat time, can they be that tricky to drive ?



    2. Member nm+'s Avatar
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      10-09-2012 09:51 PM #2
      That first one wasn't really a straight line thing. That is a lot with lots of loose gravel (I've Axed there) with basically no run off.
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    3. Member RacerrRex's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 09:52 PM #3
      You'd be surprised. There was a thread yesterday dedicated to WRC/F1/motorsport crash/death videos.
      Go in that thread and watch some of the stuff there. F1 car will be driving perfectly, litereally a split second later it will be sideways into a wall at 200+ mph.

      Ive spun out so many times in Gran Turismo and TDU2 going in a straight line just shifting from 4th to 5th ahah

      Edit: Watched the video, some people should at LEAST take their car backroading/autocrossing/ drive in the rain so they can learn how to correct oversteer, BEFORE they decide to gun the throttle halfway out of a corner in open public road lol
      Last edited by RacerrRex; 10-09-2012 at 09:58 PM.
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      I think that it is raw enough that at 50% of potential, it would be terrifying enough to be fun. One of those 'you never see the tree that is going to kill you because you are sliding into it backwards' kind of cars.

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      10-09-2012 09:53 PM #4
      I wanted to comment in your other thread how the Forrester would probably be a better handling car but didn't. More appropriate here instead.

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      10-09-2012 09:57 PM #5
      The C5 is more twitchy, but most of those incidents were caused by hamfisted driving.


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      10-09-2012 09:57 PM #6
      I DD'd a C6 for 5 years and drove it in every kind of condition imaginable, heavy rain, light snow, whatever, it was my only car so I had no choice but to drive it in all conditions. I drove it pretty hard too, but I only spun out once, literally my last weekend I had the car I took it to the canyons out in Malibu (Latigo Canyon road for those who are familiar) and spun out. It was dark and I was unfamiliar with the road (I had never driven a road that twisty in my life, period), couldn't see which way the road was turning until it was too late, tried to correct and did a 180. Totally my fault, not the car's. The car is only going to do what you tell it to

      They're not hard to drive at all unless you do something dumb
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      10-09-2012 09:58 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by 1Point8TDan View Post
      I wanted to comment in your other thread how the Forrester would probably be a better handling car but didn't. More appropriate here instead.
      It's not appropriate anywhere, the Forrester is by no means a better handling car than a C5Z
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    8. Member Lexi's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 10:00 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by nm+ View Post
      That is a lot with lots of loose gravel (I've Axed there)
      Ah, I wondered if maybe the lot was dirty/full of marbles.

      The Forester handles great BTW, its VERY neutral and typically understeers if pushed too hard into a corner. I did manage to spin it out once when I had my PSI too low in the R comps. I know All things being equal RWD is the better platform on a race track, you don't see many STI's outside of WRC. There are a couple of vettes that autox locally and I've never seen one get squirly. One local guy tracks his C5Z constantly and is incredibly quick corners included, no way my Forester would hang with it regardless of tires. He hasn't had a scarry moment yet this year.
      Last edited by Lexi; 10-09-2012 at 10:02 PM.

    9. Member Smokin Joe's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 10:05 PM #9
      In most of those it looked like the driver got too happy with the throttle, over corrected the skid and then lifted off the gas. This combo will always spin a RWD car. The rear is already loose and lifting upsets the front to rear balance. Add in some engine braking and all traction is gone, at this point momentum takes over and the Vette hits the wall.

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      10-09-2012 10:19 PM #10
      You have much to learn.

    11. Member Lexi's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 10:26 PM #11
      Lots to learn, and I plan on doing it safely at autox & track day driving schools. $300-500 driving schools are cheaper than a front end / mangled suspension any day. And best "mod" ever IMO.

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      10-09-2012 10:28 PM #12
      Most of the people that I have dealt with like to think that if they turn off stability and traction control that they are going to be faster. The abilities of the car that you just bought far exceed the skill level of most of the people that drive them and the public in general. I remember when I graduated from FWD imports to RWD V8 domestics having a "come to Jesus" meeting with my car really quick when I thought that I could beat on it and throw it around the way that I used to with my other cars. Pounding this car around on the street from light to light is just about .03% of what the car is capeable of, and the ZO6 specifically is initially so confidence inspiring that people end up driving way past their abilities and then getting bitten.

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      10-09-2012 10:34 PM #13
      Looked like a lot of lift off oversteer and rough driving.
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    14. Member DerSpiegel's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 10:36 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Smokin Joe View Post
      In most of those it looked like the driver got too happy with the throttle, over corrected the skid and then lifted off the gas. This combo will always spin a RWD car. The rear is already loose and lifting upsets the front to rear balance. Add in some engine braking and all traction is gone, at this point momentum takes over and the Vette hits the wall.
      This.


      Quote Originally Posted by jacobyb View Post
      Most of the people that I have dealt with like to think that if they turn off stability and traction control that they are going to be faster. The abilities of the car that you just bought far exceed the skill level of most of the people that drive them and the public in general.......the ZO6 specifically is initially so confidence inspiring that people end up driving way past their abilities and then getting bitten.
      This too.
      Last edited by DerSpiegel; 10-09-2012 at 10:38 PM.

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      10-09-2012 10:38 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Smokin Joe View Post
      In most of those it looked like the driver got too happy with the throttle, over corrected the skid and then lifted off the gas. This combo will always spin a RWD car. The rear is already loose and lifting upsets the front to rear balance. Add in some engine braking and all traction is gone, at this point momentum takes over and the Vette hits the wall.
      This. But it's easier to do in a 'Vette. They aren't easy cars to drive at the limit. It's like Tsuchiya's 1-10 scale. Corvettes are like 1 2 3 4 5 67--10.

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      10-09-2012 10:46 PM #16
      Seems like a lot of spastic throttle and steering input. If you keep poking and prodding the beast, sooner or later you're going to get horns. The only one that seems is the first one on the autcross course.

    17. Member Lexi's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 10:46 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Smokin Joe View Post
      In most of those it looked like the driver got too happy with the throttle, over corrected the skid and then lifted off the gas. This combo will always spin a RWD car. The rear is already loose and lifting upsets the front to rear balance. Add in some engine braking and all traction is gone, at this point momentum takes over and the Vette hits the wall.
      That would make sense. So basically if it gets loose stay on the throttle, don't lift and "gently" drive out of it ? Sounds like how the Subaru behaves on snowy roads, once the tail comes out if you lift you'll go backwards into the curb pronto. It may feel counter intuitive but staying on the gas gently will get you back in line.

      Most of what I've read on the autox/HPDE sections of the vette forums says to leave traction control on, or at least one mode up so its not constantly braking and upsetting the car but the stability control is still able to save your skin if it gets a bit messy. I plan on starting with all nanny features on and working my way up from there as my skill with the car increases.

    18. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 10:59 PM #18
      I don't think it's just lift throttle oversteer. The rear LSD can get you, because the loaded wheel will long make the car go in the wrong direction no matter what the steering wheel says.
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    19. Member unimogken's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 11:00 PM #19
      Back when I had an El Camino with a 383 and automatic transmission it acted the same as in the video in the first post. It would do that when I was lagging along then put my foot into it and it was if the transmission would panic and downshift weird.

      The best way to describe it was like at an airport on a moving sidewalk and walking at a good pace then trying not to fall/lose traction at the end once you hit non-moving ground. If you've been on one you'll know what I mean.
      Last edited by unimogken; 10-09-2012 at 11:04 PM.
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      10-09-2012 11:04 PM #20
      Great car but the drivers...not so great.
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    21. 10-09-2012 11:10 PM #21
      High powered bikes have taught me this, sometime a lift of the throttle is the worst thing you can do. That said I have owned a few high powered RWD like a 400+ FD that car was very civil until you got it sideways, one it snaps back and you smack your head on the door rail or the car spins. Car control is one of those things you learn. Funny to put a F&F scenario but you learn with time. That is just my .05
      I think you will understand how outstanding AWD is, you with the Forester XT. I have owned a; Supra, FD, Turbo TA, and a big block Skylark. I also had a 400hp VR6 Gti. I still love all my big power AWD cars like a 450+ DSM, UrS6 034 RS2 car more.
      At the track it is a different story then daily driving. Learn slow and in big parking lots. I love hearing F1 guys drive on throttle like an egg... think of your right foot like the hand of God. Push to much and the world ends, do it right and you develop the Garden of Eden.

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      10-09-2012 11:14 PM #22
      As mentioned, people getting too happy with the throttle and not knowing what that entails with virtually anything RWD. With my G8, I almost crubbed it trying to show off a couple months after the purchased. Learned my lesson quick.

      I hardly EVER turned the traction control off in 3 years of ownership. The only times I did were when trying to keep moving in snow and from a dead stop on dry pavement. In ALL of those accidents, GM's Stabilitrak would have saved the day...sure, it cut power and applied the brakes...but I'd prefer that than the alternative. Plus, the Corvette is plenty quick with Stabilitrak on...I'd be VERY wary of hitting the "fun" button with 400+hp and a manual transmission unless I'd had the necessary training/classes.
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      10-09-2012 11:36 PM #23
      ****ty drivers.
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    24. 10-10-2012 12:30 AM #24
      I have noticed on my C6 that with cold tires, it seems/feels a lot more likely to want to break the back end loose. Call me a puss, wuss or what have you but I leave the traction control on at all times precisely because I don't want to end up as a youtube video.

      I'm in the same boat though, my other car is a Subaru Outback XT, I'm used to driving it on a daily basis for the past 6.5 years now and this car is totally different in every way. I haven't gone to a high performance car school just yet so I'm driving it fairly conservatively for the time being. All in good time though.

      I will add though, I think some of this is a combination of a few things. Turn off traction control, showing off, going around a corner and flooring it - I don't expect much good to come of that no matter what badge is on the car. Search around, you'll see Ferrari/Lamborghini/Mustang/etc fail videos as well.

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      10-10-2012 12:54 AM #25
      I think the combination of high torque at the lower revs along with the weight balance can make it a bit tricky in these kinds of instances where the car is making hard acceleration from lower speeds. Not so sticky or cold tires compound that problem.

      The Corvette is a pretty honest car but at the same time you have to respect the power characteristics and drivetrain at hand.

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      10-10-2012 02:51 AM #26
      Man I'd love to have a C5

      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      ****ty drivers.
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      10-10-2012 05:45 AM #27
      Some people treat the throttle pedal like a digital switch on a controller...

    28. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 08:28 AM #28
      ITT: Average drivers turning off stability control

      --

      Kids, keep the squiggly tire light off.

      Oh, and IMO, just keep SC on until you can drive a car at the limit without engaging the system. For some cars with performance traction systems, like the Corvette, your're going to be going faster with it on than off regardless of skill level because the system actually helps create yaw.
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      10-10-2012 08:33 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by curvedinfinity View Post
      For some cars with performance traction systems, like the Corvette, your're going to be going faster with it on than off regardless of skill level because the system actually helps create yaw.
      No it doesn't. PTM is just a racecar-like traction control system. You can floor it out of corners and let the computer do the work.

      My C5 didn't have stability control. It made me learn real quick.

    30. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 08:35 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by JustinCSVT View Post
      No it doesn't. PTM is just a racecar-like traction control system. You can floor it out of corners and let the computer do the work.

      My C5 didn't have stability control. It made me learn real quick.
      PTM does yaw control. I've experienced it.

      edit: By the way, on my 6MT CTS-V, that's all it does. It needs the auto transmission to do the torque management for corner exits.
      Last edited by curvedinfinity; 10-10-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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      10-10-2012 08:43 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by curvedinfinity View Post
      PTM does yaw control. I've experienced it.

      edit: By the way, on my 6MT CTS-V, that's all it does. It needs the auto transmission to do the torque management for corner exits.
      There's a difference between yaw control and creating yaw though.

    32. 10-10-2012 08:45 AM #32
      First lesson learned in that video: DO NOT STAND OUTSIDE A CARS AND COFFEE!

      That is mostly sudden on and off throttle applications applied to limited talent. Apply the throttle smoothly, not stomping, remove the same way.

      Listen to the master about smoothness:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5rpFXdWtK4

    33. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 09:14 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by JustinCSVT View Post
      There's a difference between yaw control and creating yaw though.
      I'm not 100% on whether it creates yaw, but I have a feeling I've read it and I'm pretty sure I've experienced it.
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      10-10-2012 09:18 AM #34
      The only opportunity I've ever had to drive a C6, it happened to be February and snowing heavily.

      The car was a Grand Sport with bald summer tires. Overall not bad (traction control on!).

      I did have to salt the driveway very well and block the wheels so it wouldnt slide out of the driveway into the street when parked.


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      10-10-2012 09:19 AM #35
      That's what happens when people don't know how to handle RWD and that much power
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