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    Thread: Supreme Court to rule on affirmative action case.

    1. Member
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      10-10-2012 01:16 PM #36
      I'm a white Southern male and strongly support affirmative action for black people.

      They are treated poorly to this day by authorities and still feel affects of slavery and Jim Crow. How many black people's great grandfathers went to Harvard or Yale to establish legacies and tradition?

      None.

      They had to form their own colleges and universities through the black church.

      George W. Bush couldn't get into the UT --Austin MBA program because his grades sucked but he got into Harvard Business School through family connections/legacies.

      Affirmative action is in place to balance out such inherent unfairness in the world.

    2. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 01:22 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      Does that mean we can give Obama a 10% bump in electoral votes?
      5% because Halfrican.

    3. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 01:24 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      I'm a white Southern male and strongly support affirmative action for black people.
      Bull****. Everyone knows white people south of the M/D are racist dickheads who talk like hicks and have pointy hats in their closets.

    4. 10-10-2012 01:25 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      5% because Halfrican.
      Was just gonna post this.
      This post was monitored and approved by the NSA

    5. Senior Member .LSinLV.'s Avatar
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      10-10-2012 01:26 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      All a test proves is that you got a better score on that particular day. What if her experience and background made her a better fit for the company?
      then why have the test???

      the resume was scored to allow me to be one of those applying found to have enough proper background and qualifications to take the test.

      the test (I am assuming) was to verify that what I put on my application was valid, and that I have the required knowledge and skills to perform the job.

      the 1st step included a form voluntarily requesting my racial background, which I chose NOT to answer, as I feel it's not necessary. the 2nd step was BLIND to the fact that anyone taking the test was of any particular race....only that they are able to apply their knowledge as required in the postion.

      I could have easily lied on the 1st step and marked "hispanic", as many confuse my ethnicity as hispanic and I am bilingual (spanish and english) and guess what, I just UNFAIRLY gave myself 5 points.

      I think I may use this in the future to my advantage.
      Larry

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      10-10-2012 01:27 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      I'm a white Southern male and strongly support affirmative action for black people.

      They are treated poorly to this day by authorities and still feel affects of slavery and Jim Crow. How many black people's great grandfathers went to Harvard or Yale to establish legacies and tradition?

      None.

      They had to form their own colleges and universities through the black church.

      George W. Bush couldn't get into the UT --Austin MBA program because his grades sucked but he got into Harvard Business School through family connections/legacies.

      Affirmative action is in place to balance out such inherent unfairness in the world.
      Wrong.

      White people have not had any sort of advantage in achievement after Brown v. Board '55.

    7. Member 20DYNAMITE07's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 01:29 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      in my case that was completely untrue. I was more qualified, the test proved that, as we took the same test, and I scored 1 grade (10 points) higher....yet the LESS qualified individual recieved a greater opportunity than I.

      not a fair system at all.
      Maybe you were more qualified. That single test metric would certainly indicate that, and if that were the only consideration and you didn't get the job, then yes that isn't fair. But AA encourages programs to consider other experiences when evaluating a candidate. So perhaps they felt her life experiences put her over the top.

      The Federal Government currently gives Veterans hiring preference - by considering their life experience as an intangable that adds value to the workplace they are granted additional points during their evaluation for a position. It is the same concept.
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      10-10-2012 01:30 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      All a test proves is that you got a better score on that particular day. What if her experience and background made her a better fit for the company?
      Look over there....there were no points given to the black lady....move on please...

    9. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 01:33 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      then why have the test???

      the resume was scored to allow me to be one of those applying found to have enough proper background and qualifications to take the test.

      the test (I am assuming) was to verify that what I put on my application was valid, and that I have the required knowledge and skills to perform the job.

      the 1st step included a form voluntarily requesting my racial background, which I chose NOT to answer, as I feel it's not necessary. the 2nd step was BLIND to the fact that anyone taking the test was of any particular race....only that they are able to apply their knowledge as required in the postion.

      I could have easily lied on the 1st step and marked "hispanic", as many confuse my ethnicity as hispanic and I am bilingual (spanish and english) and guess what, I just UNFAIRLY gave myself 5 points.

      I think I may use this in the future to my advantage.
      Because just because someone scores well on a test doesn't mean they're cut out for a job.

      Think of it like a car. A GTR might match or exceed what a Porsche can do, but the Porsche has some intangibles that might make it more intriguing to the individual. Maybe the black lady had some other experiences, which combined with a very strong score made her a better hire than you.

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      10-10-2012 01:34 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      then why have the test???
      It's not as though they gave the position to someone who got a 0 on the test. AA doesn't give top positions to completely unqualified candidates. Where the scores are close, a small edge goes to certain disadvantaged minorities. I think it's perfectly fair considering the disadvantages such candidates are likely to face.

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      10-10-2012 01:36 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      Does that mean we can give Obama a 10% bump in electoral votes?
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      5% because Halfrican.
      I love you guys
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    12. 10-10-2012 01:36 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Because just because someone scores well on a test doesn't mean they're cut out for a job.

      Think of it like a car. A GTR might match or exceed what a Porsche can do, but the Porsche has some intangibles that might make it more intriguing to the individual. Maybe the black lady had some other experiences, which combined with a very strong score made her a better hire than you.
      A BJ and/or a handy probably helped her out as well.

      I'm just saying.
      This post was monitored and approved by the NSA

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      10-10-2012 01:40 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by 20DYNAMITE07 View Post
      I love you guys

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      10-10-2012 01:40 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Because just because someone scores well on a test doesn't mean they're cut out for a job.

      Think of it like a car. A GTR might match or exceed what a Porsche can do, but the Porsche has some intangibles that might make it more intriguing to the individual. Maybe the black lady had some other experiences, which combined with a very strong score made her a better hire than you.
      The problem is, AA assigns every black or other minority that extra edge based on experience, whether they were raised in West Philadelphia or Belle Aire. And handicaps every white person, whether they were raised in suburban CT or Appalachia.

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      10-10-2012 01:41 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Because just because someone scores well on a test doesn't mean they're cut out for a job.

      Think of it like a car. A GTR might match or exceed what a Porsche can do, but the Porsche has some intangibles that might make it more intriguing to the individual. Maybe the black lady had some other experiences, which combined with a very strong score made her a better hire than you.
      then I guess I'll just lie from now on and say I'm "hispanic" and get the 5 points just because.

      that will set the curve MUCH higher as I am smarter than all those stupid minorites anyways.

      Larry

      Demokratikally Elekted Minister of Shekels of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan

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      10-10-2012 01:44 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      The problem is, AA assigns every black or other minority that extra edge based on experience, whether they were raised in West Philadelphia or Belle Aire. And handicaps every white person, whether they were raised in suburban CT or Appalachia.
      Odds are, black people are more likely to be disadvantaged and white people are more likely to have advantages, strictly because of their respective races. So it evens out. Yes, it might benefit certain people more than others but, unless you can think of a better way to offset the problems AA is aimed at, the best solution wins.

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      10-10-2012 01:44 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      The problem is, AA assigns every black or other minority that extra edge based on experience, whether they were raised in West Philadelphia or Belle Aire. And handicaps every white person, whether they were raised in suburban CT or Appalachia.
      "We'll not risk another frontal assault... that rabbit's DYNAMITE!"

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      10-10-2012 01:46 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      The problem is, AA assigns every black or other minority that extra edge based on experience, whether they were raised in West Philadelphia or Belle Aire. And handicaps every white person, whether they were raised in suburban CT or Appalachia.

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      10-10-2012 01:48 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      Odds are, black people are more likely to be disadvantaged and white people are more likely to have advantages, strictly because of their respective races. So it evens out. Yes, it might benefit certain people more than others but, unless you can think of a better way to offset the problems AA is aimed at, the best solution wins.

    20. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 01:52 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      Odds are, black people are more likely to be disadvantaged and white people are more likely to have advantages, strictly because of their respective races. So it evens out. Yes, it might benefit certain people more than others but, unless you can think of a better way to offset the problems AA is aimed at, the best solution wins.
      Assumes a solution is needed. I don't.

    21. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:04 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      So, you deny that the groups that benefit from AA are more likely to be disadvantaged, and that groups that do not benefit from AA are more likely to be advantaged, by reason of their respective races?

      Just confirming that you want me to Google things for you that should be undisputed.

      The choice is between most people of disadvantaged groups (i.e., most people of the groups that benefit from AA) bearing their unfair (and significant) disadvantage, or a small subset of that group (i.e., the subset of the groups benefitting from AA that do not share the typical disadvantage) having an unfair (but small) advantage. It's obvious to me that one is less bad than the other. I can't see how you'd see otherwise.

      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Assumes a solution is needed. I don't.
      I think if you were disadvantaged because of your race, and not advantaged, you might think differently.

    22. 10-10-2012 02:08 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I think if you were disadvantaged because of your race, and not advantaged, you might think differently.
      Just as Akin is an expert on rape and biology, a white guy from coastal Connecticut with rich in-laws is an expert on being disadvantaged due to race. If he says its not a big deal, its not a big deal.

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      10-10-2012 02:10 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I think if you were disadvantaged because of your race, and not advantaged, you might think differently.
      I was neither advantaged or disadvantaged by my race. My grandparents were a propane truck driver and teacher, and a diesel mechanic and stay at home mom. Very blue collar, both. My dad joined the Navy to go to college. My mom had student loans. They used those educations to get jobs to put my sister through college, and I joined the navy to go to college.

      I fail to see how that upbringing is uniquely white, nor does it represent anything unavailable to the black (or otherwise) communities.

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      10-10-2012 02:10 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by pwm View Post
      Just as Akin is an expert on rape and biology, a white guy from coastal Connecticut with rich in-laws is an expert on being disadvantaged due to race. If he says its not a big deal, its not a big deal.
      Hey, give me credit...my parents are rich too.

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      10-10-2012 02:14 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      I was neither advantaged or disadvantaged by my race. My grandparents were a propane truck driver and teacher, and a diesel mechanic and stay at home mom. Very blue collar, both. My dad joined the Navy to go to college. My mom had student loans. They used those educations to get jobs to put my sister through college, and I joined the navy to go to college.

      I fail to see how that upbringing is uniquely white, nor does it represent anything unavailable to the black (or otherwise) communities.
      You're failing to consider that your white grandparents, parents and, likely, self have been given preferential treatment with respect to getting and keeping those jobs and the opportunities that were available to them strictly because of their race.

      Your present success is built on the foundation laid by your grandparents and parents. You think that, back in their days, a black person had exactly the same fair shake to become truck drivers or teachers or diesel mechanics, to get student loans or attend schools? If yes, your position is internally consistent but ignores reality. If no, then those are the very advantages you deny benefitting from.

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      10-10-2012 02:26 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      You're failing to consider that your white grandparents, parents and, likely, self have been given preferential treatment with respect to getting and keeping those jobs and the opportunities that were available to them strictly because of their race.

      Your present success is built on the foundation laid by your grandparents and parents. You think that, back in their days, a black person had exactly the same fair shake to become truck drivers or teachers or diesel mechanics, to get student loans or attend schools? If yes, your position is internally consistent but ignores reality. If no, then those are the very advantages you deny benefitting from.
      At what point, in your opinion, is the inequality-creates-equality enough?

    27. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:35 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      At what point, in your opinion, is the inequality-creates-equality enough?
      That's a far too complex question for me to know the answer off-hand.

      I'd be receptive to evidence that AA has gone too far, but a bunch of whining that it's unfair from successful white people doesn't do much to convince me of that. Short of that evidence, my impression is that AA is a fair and measured response to the undeniable racial biases that still exist in today's society.

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      10-10-2012 02:36 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      Are you denying his claims?

      The numbers speak for themselves. Whites have the advantage in pretty much every way when it comes to economics, jobs, and punishment in the criminal justice system, among other areas. Whether it is discrimination or just a disparity within our country, whites have the advantage.

      I am white, Texan ( ), and strongly disagree with AA.

      I had a class my senior year that was Race and Crime. Basically it was a class on how much white people suck.
      Last edited by VDubby18; 10-10-2012 at 02:38 PM.

    29. 10-10-2012 02:40 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      I'm a white Southern male and strongly support affirmative action for black people.

      They are treated poorly to this day by authorities and still feel affects of slavery and Jim Crow. How many black people's great grandfathers went to Harvard or Yale to establish legacies and tradition?

      None.

      They had to form their own colleges and universities through the black church.

      George W. Bush couldn't get into the UT --Austin MBA program because his grades sucked but he got into Harvard Business School through family connections/legacies.

      Affirmative action is in place to balance out such inherent unfairness in the world.
      umm you see anybody in here with great grandfathers that went to Harvard & setup trust funds for them & got them into Harvard? I couldn't care less whether AA stays or goes but using that as an example makes you look like the ignorant southerner that most people sterotype southern white males to be. don't use the 1% as the norm in future conversations & you'll get ALOT further. what happened in this case was unfair to EVERYONE not just certain races... wake up
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      10-10-2012 02:40 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by VDubby18 View Post
      Are you denying his claims?
      I don't think society should institute broad rules applying to a class of people based on race. I understand that some may not be able to overcome obstacles without assistance.

      All of the mights, odds are, probably...used in these discussions even point to that.

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      10-10-2012 02:41 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by VDubby18 View Post
      Basically it was a class on how much people suck.
      Better.

    32. 10-10-2012 02:43 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      I don't think society should institute broad rules applying to a class of people based on race. I understand that some may not be able to overcome obstacles without assistance.

      All of the mights, odds are, probably...used in these discussions even point to that.
      How about based on economic status? since the talk has now turned to poor vs middle/upper class?
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkEnergist View Post
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      Quote Originally Posted by Captain 'Murica! View Post
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      10-10-2012 02:44 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by NyteGTI View Post
      umm you see anybody in here with great grandfathers that went to Harvard & setup trust funds for them & got them into Harvard? I couldn't care less whether AA stays or goes but using that as an example makes you look like the ignorant southerner that most people sterotype southern white males to be. don't use the 1% as the norm in future conversations & you'll get ALOT further. what happened in this case was unfair to EVERYONE not just certain races... wake up
      I don't know about you but my drunk and drug addicted parents that didn't graduate high school taught me everything I know about pulling my self up by my boot straps. Or not.

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      10-10-2012 02:46 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by NyteGTI View Post
      How about based on economic status? since the talk has now turned to poor vs middle/upper class?
      I see more of a point with that but it still falls on my deaf ears.

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      10-10-2012 02:49 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by pwm View Post
      Just as Akin is an expert on rape and biology, a white guy from coastal Connecticut with rich in-laws is an expert on being disadvantaged due to race. If he says its not a big deal, its not a big deal.
      yup, this.

      this thread rocks... white dudes telling guys who (presumably) arent white "how they should just buck up"



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