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    Thread: Supreme Court to rule on affirmative action case.

    1. 10-10-2012 12:08 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by 20DYNAMITE07 View Post
      Allow me to retort... and forgive me if I quote you while doing so - Bull****.

      I think we are just going to disagree on this one, buddy
      You're confusing AA with current anti discrimination law. Trust me, I know the difference. You, not so much.

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      10-10-2012 12:18 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      You're confusing AA with current anti discrimination law. Trust me, I know the difference. You, not so much.
      No. I'm not confusing them at all. I am very familiar with both, thanks. Like I said, I think we are just going to disagree here - we obvoiously have very different understandings of the subject, and I am quite sure I will never convince you to change your mind and I know you aren't going to change mine.

      So beer to you.
      "We'll not risk another frontal assault... that rabbit's DYNAMITE!"

    3. 10-10-2012 12:18 PM #28

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      10-10-2012 12:24 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Let me know when white people go through 400 years of slavery and 100 years of Jim Crow.
      The spanish were terrible to mexican ancestry, oh...wait...you meant blacks.

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      10-10-2012 12:29 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      I disagree.

      I applied and tested for a senior analyst position in my state a few years back and LOST to a black female.

      I test 98%, she tested at 88%, but because she was given 10 points for both gender and race, she scored the same as me, then AA gave her the edge over me in applicants.

      thank God I am now the minority (white male over 45) and I can and WILL use AA as a course of action for jobs I apply for.
      Does that mean we can give Obama a 10% bump in electoral votes?

    6. 10-10-2012 12:39 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by 20DYNAMITE07 View Post
      No. I'm not confusing them at all. I am very familiar with both, thanks.
      Yet you are.
      Here, let me help: Affirmative Action = "set asides" in an attempt to achieve balances/outcomes based on precedents (that is, actions in the past).
      Anti Discrimination law = criminalizing current discriminatory action.
      Note the subtle difference?
      You're welcome.

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      10-10-2012 12:54 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Here, let me help: Affirmative Action = "set asides" in an attempt to achieve balances/outcomes based on precedents (that is, actions in the past).
      And yet certain groups that have undoubtedly experienced difficulty in the past, and who are not presently disadvantaged as a result, are not eligible.

      The reasons for the need for programs like AA may be rooted in the past, but the reason for its present existence is based on present circumstances.

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      10-10-2012 01:05 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      Yet you are.
      Here, let me help: Affirmative Action = "set asides" in an attempt to achieve balances/outcomes based on precedents (that is, actions in the past).
      Anti Discrimination law = criminalizing current discriminatory action.
      Note the subtle difference?
      You're welcome.
      Yes... I understand that is what you think AA is. What I have said is that AA is NOT a form of reparations as you keep insisting it is, but rather it was an economic initiative designed to break the cycle of poverty by insuring qualified individuals get equal access and equal opportunity to contribute.

      One last thing... I have to ask...
      Why have you been so snarky with me? I have been respectful in each and every one of my responses to you, yet you seem bent on trying to provoke me. Just curious.
      "We'll not risk another frontal assault... that rabbit's DYNAMITE!"

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      10-10-2012 01:11 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by 20DYNAMITE07 View Post
      Yes... I understand that is what you think AA is. What I have said is that AA is NOT a form of reparations as you keep insisting it is, but rather it was an economic initiative designed to break the cycle of poverty by insuring qualified individuals get equal access and equal opportunity to contribute.

      One last thing... I have to ask...
      Why have you been so snarky with me? I have been respectful in each and every one of my responses to you, yet you seem bent on trying to provoke me. Just curious.
      in my case that was completely untrue. I was more qualified, the test proved that, as we took the same test, and I scored 1 grade (10 points) higher....yet the LESS qualified individual recieved a greater opportunity than I.

      not a fair system at all.
      Larry
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      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      The boobs. I am waiting on the boobs here.

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      10-10-2012 01:14 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      in my case that was completely untrue. I was more qualified, the test proved that, as we took the same test, and I scored 1 grade (10 points) higher....yet the LESS qualified individual recieved a greater opportunity than I.

      not a fair system at all.
      All a test proves is that you got a better score on that particular day. What if her experience and background made her a better fit for the company?

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      10-10-2012 01:16 PM #36
      I'm a white Southern male and strongly support affirmative action for black people.

      They are treated poorly to this day by authorities and still feel affects of slavery and Jim Crow. How many black people's great grandfathers went to Harvard or Yale to establish legacies and tradition?

      None.

      They had to form their own colleges and universities through the black church.

      George W. Bush couldn't get into the UT --Austin MBA program because his grades sucked but he got into Harvard Business School through family connections/legacies.

      Affirmative action is in place to balance out such inherent unfairness in the world.

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      10-10-2012 01:22 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      Does that mean we can give Obama a 10% bump in electoral votes?
      5% because Halfrican.

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      10-10-2012 01:24 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      I'm a white Southern male and strongly support affirmative action for black people.
      Bull****. Everyone knows white people south of the M/D are racist dickheads who talk like hicks and have pointy hats in their closets.

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      10-10-2012 01:26 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      All a test proves is that you got a better score on that particular day. What if her experience and background made her a better fit for the company?
      then why have the test???

      the resume was scored to allow me to be one of those applying found to have enough proper background and qualifications to take the test.

      the test (I am assuming) was to verify that what I put on my application was valid, and that I have the required knowledge and skills to perform the job.

      the 1st step included a form voluntarily requesting my racial background, which I chose NOT to answer, as I feel it's not necessary. the 2nd step was BLIND to the fact that anyone taking the test was of any particular race....only that they are able to apply their knowledge as required in the postion.

      I could have easily lied on the 1st step and marked "hispanic", as many confuse my ethnicity as hispanic and I am bilingual (spanish and english) and guess what, I just UNFAIRLY gave myself 5 points.

      I think I may use this in the future to my advantage.
      Larry
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      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      The boobs. I am waiting on the boobs here.

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      10-10-2012 01:27 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      I'm a white Southern male and strongly support affirmative action for black people.

      They are treated poorly to this day by authorities and still feel affects of slavery and Jim Crow. How many black people's great grandfathers went to Harvard or Yale to establish legacies and tradition?

      None.

      They had to form their own colleges and universities through the black church.

      George W. Bush couldn't get into the UT --Austin MBA program because his grades sucked but he got into Harvard Business School through family connections/legacies.

      Affirmative action is in place to balance out such inherent unfairness in the world.
      Wrong.

      White people have not had any sort of advantage in achievement after Brown v. Board '55.

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      10-10-2012 01:29 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      in my case that was completely untrue. I was more qualified, the test proved that, as we took the same test, and I scored 1 grade (10 points) higher....yet the LESS qualified individual recieved a greater opportunity than I.

      not a fair system at all.
      Maybe you were more qualified. That single test metric would certainly indicate that, and if that were the only consideration and you didn't get the job, then yes that isn't fair. But AA encourages programs to consider other experiences when evaluating a candidate. So perhaps they felt her life experiences put her over the top.

      The Federal Government currently gives Veterans hiring preference - by considering their life experience as an intangable that adds value to the workplace they are granted additional points during their evaluation for a position. It is the same concept.
      "We'll not risk another frontal assault... that rabbit's DYNAMITE!"

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      10-10-2012 01:30 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      All a test proves is that you got a better score on that particular day. What if her experience and background made her a better fit for the company?
      Look over there....there were no points given to the black lady....move on please...

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      10-10-2012 01:33 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      then why have the test???

      the resume was scored to allow me to be one of those applying found to have enough proper background and qualifications to take the test.

      the test (I am assuming) was to verify that what I put on my application was valid, and that I have the required knowledge and skills to perform the job.

      the 1st step included a form voluntarily requesting my racial background, which I chose NOT to answer, as I feel it's not necessary. the 2nd step was BLIND to the fact that anyone taking the test was of any particular race....only that they are able to apply their knowledge as required in the postion.

      I could have easily lied on the 1st step and marked "hispanic", as many confuse my ethnicity as hispanic and I am bilingual (spanish and english) and guess what, I just UNFAIRLY gave myself 5 points.

      I think I may use this in the future to my advantage.
      Because just because someone scores well on a test doesn't mean they're cut out for a job.

      Think of it like a car. A GTR might match or exceed what a Porsche can do, but the Porsche has some intangibles that might make it more intriguing to the individual. Maybe the black lady had some other experiences, which combined with a very strong score made her a better hire than you.

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      10-10-2012 01:34 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      then why have the test???
      It's not as though they gave the position to someone who got a 0 on the test. AA doesn't give top positions to completely unqualified candidates. Where the scores are close, a small edge goes to certain disadvantaged minorities. I think it's perfectly fair considering the disadvantages such candidates are likely to face.

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      10-10-2012 01:36 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      Does that mean we can give Obama a 10% bump in electoral votes?
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      5% because Halfrican.
      I love you guys
      "We'll not risk another frontal assault... that rabbit's DYNAMITE!"

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      10-10-2012 01:40 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by 20DYNAMITE07 View Post
      I love you guys

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      10-10-2012 01:40 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Because just because someone scores well on a test doesn't mean they're cut out for a job.

      Think of it like a car. A GTR might match or exceed what a Porsche can do, but the Porsche has some intangibles that might make it more intriguing to the individual. Maybe the black lady had some other experiences, which combined with a very strong score made her a better hire than you.
      The problem is, AA assigns every black or other minority that extra edge based on experience, whether they were raised in West Philadelphia or Belle Aire. And handicaps every white person, whether they were raised in suburban CT or Appalachia.

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      10-10-2012 01:41 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Because just because someone scores well on a test doesn't mean they're cut out for a job.

      Think of it like a car. A GTR might match or exceed what a Porsche can do, but the Porsche has some intangibles that might make it more intriguing to the individual. Maybe the black lady had some other experiences, which combined with a very strong score made her a better hire than you.
      then I guess I'll just lie from now on and say I'm "hispanic" and get the 5 points just because.

      that will set the curve MUCH higher as I am smarter than all those stupid minorites anyways.

      Larry
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      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      The boobs. I am waiting on the boobs here.

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      10-10-2012 01:44 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      The problem is, AA assigns every black or other minority that extra edge based on experience, whether they were raised in West Philadelphia or Belle Aire. And handicaps every white person, whether they were raised in suburban CT or Appalachia.
      Odds are, black people are more likely to be disadvantaged and white people are more likely to have advantages, strictly because of their respective races. So it evens out. Yes, it might benefit certain people more than others but, unless you can think of a better way to offset the problems AA is aimed at, the best solution wins.

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      10-10-2012 01:44 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      The problem is, AA assigns every black or other minority that extra edge based on experience, whether they were raised in West Philadelphia or Belle Aire. And handicaps every white person, whether they were raised in suburban CT or Appalachia.
      "We'll not risk another frontal assault... that rabbit's DYNAMITE!"

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