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    Thread: Supreme Court to rule on affirmative action case.

    1. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 01:46 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      The problem is, AA assigns every black or other minority that extra edge based on experience, whether they were raised in West Philadelphia or Belle Aire. And handicaps every white person, whether they were raised in suburban CT or Appalachia.

    2. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 01:48 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      Odds are, black people are more likely to be disadvantaged and white people are more likely to have advantages, strictly because of their respective races. So it evens out. Yes, it might benefit certain people more than others but, unless you can think of a better way to offset the problems AA is aimed at, the best solution wins.

    3. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 01:52 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      Odds are, black people are more likely to be disadvantaged and white people are more likely to have advantages, strictly because of their respective races. So it evens out. Yes, it might benefit certain people more than others but, unless you can think of a better way to offset the problems AA is aimed at, the best solution wins.
      Assumes a solution is needed. I don't.

    4. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:04 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      So, you deny that the groups that benefit from AA are more likely to be disadvantaged, and that groups that do not benefit from AA are more likely to be advantaged, by reason of their respective races?

      Just confirming that you want me to Google things for you that should be undisputed.

      The choice is between most people of disadvantaged groups (i.e., most people of the groups that benefit from AA) bearing their unfair (and significant) disadvantage, or a small subset of that group (i.e., the subset of the groups benefitting from AA that do not share the typical disadvantage) having an unfair (but small) advantage. It's obvious to me that one is less bad than the other. I can't see how you'd see otherwise.

      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Assumes a solution is needed. I don't.
      I think if you were disadvantaged because of your race, and not advantaged, you might think differently.

    5. Member pwm's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:08 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I think if you were disadvantaged because of your race, and not advantaged, you might think differently.
      Just as Akin is an expert on rape and biology, a white guy from coastal Connecticut with rich in-laws is an expert on being disadvantaged due to race. If he says its not a big deal, its not a big deal.

    6. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:10 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I think if you were disadvantaged because of your race, and not advantaged, you might think differently.
      I was neither advantaged or disadvantaged by my race. My grandparents were a propane truck driver and teacher, and a diesel mechanic and stay at home mom. Very blue collar, both. My dad joined the Navy to go to college. My mom had student loans. They used those educations to get jobs to put my sister through college, and I joined the navy to go to college.

      I fail to see how that upbringing is uniquely white, nor does it represent anything unavailable to the black (or otherwise) communities.

    7. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:10 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by pwm View Post
      Just as Akin is an expert on rape and biology, a white guy from coastal Connecticut with rich in-laws is an expert on being disadvantaged due to race. If he says its not a big deal, its not a big deal.
      Hey, give me credit...my parents are rich too.

    8. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:14 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      I was neither advantaged or disadvantaged by my race. My grandparents were a propane truck driver and teacher, and a diesel mechanic and stay at home mom. Very blue collar, both. My dad joined the Navy to go to college. My mom had student loans. They used those educations to get jobs to put my sister through college, and I joined the navy to go to college.

      I fail to see how that upbringing is uniquely white, nor does it represent anything unavailable to the black (or otherwise) communities.
      You're failing to consider that your white grandparents, parents and, likely, self have been given preferential treatment with respect to getting and keeping those jobs and the opportunities that were available to them strictly because of their race.

      Your present success is built on the foundation laid by your grandparents and parents. You think that, back in their days, a black person had exactly the same fair shake to become truck drivers or teachers or diesel mechanics, to get student loans or attend schools? If yes, your position is internally consistent but ignores reality. If no, then those are the very advantages you deny benefitting from.

    9. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:26 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      You're failing to consider that your white grandparents, parents and, likely, self have been given preferential treatment with respect to getting and keeping those jobs and the opportunities that were available to them strictly because of their race.

      Your present success is built on the foundation laid by your grandparents and parents. You think that, back in their days, a black person had exactly the same fair shake to become truck drivers or teachers or diesel mechanics, to get student loans or attend schools? If yes, your position is internally consistent but ignores reality. If no, then those are the very advantages you deny benefitting from.
      At what point, in your opinion, is the inequality-creates-equality enough?

    10. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:35 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      At what point, in your opinion, is the inequality-creates-equality enough?
      That's a far too complex question for me to know the answer off-hand.

      I'd be receptive to evidence that AA has gone too far, but a bunch of whining that it's unfair from successful white people doesn't do much to convince me of that. Short of that evidence, my impression is that AA is a fair and measured response to the undeniable racial biases that still exist in today's society.

    11. Member VDubby18's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:36 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      Are you denying his claims?

      The numbers speak for themselves. Whites have the advantage in pretty much every way when it comes to economics, jobs, and punishment in the criminal justice system, among other areas. Whether it is discrimination or just a disparity within our country, whites have the advantage.

      I am white, Texan ( ), and strongly disagree with AA.

      I had a class my senior year that was Race and Crime. Basically it was a class on how much white people suck.
      Last edited by VDubby18; 10-10-2012 at 02:38 PM.

    12. 10-10-2012 02:40 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      I'm a white Southern male and strongly support affirmative action for black people.

      They are treated poorly to this day by authorities and still feel affects of slavery and Jim Crow. How many black people's great grandfathers went to Harvard or Yale to establish legacies and tradition?

      None.

      They had to form their own colleges and universities through the black church.

      George W. Bush couldn't get into the UT --Austin MBA program because his grades sucked but he got into Harvard Business School through family connections/legacies.

      Affirmative action is in place to balance out such inherent unfairness in the world.
      umm you see anybody in here with great grandfathers that went to Harvard & setup trust funds for them & got them into Harvard? I couldn't care less whether AA stays or goes but using that as an example makes you look like the ignorant southerner that most people sterotype southern white males to be. don't use the 1% as the norm in future conversations & you'll get ALOT further. what happened in this case was unfair to EVERYONE not just certain races... wake up
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkEnergist View Post
      Psssh. I suck dick for the glory. I buy my cocaine.
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain 'Murica! View Post
      I personally have taken it upon myself to try and exterminate as many cows as possible, one filet or ribeye at a time. Join the call to arms, brothers! To the grill!!

    13. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:40 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by VDubby18 View Post
      Are you denying his claims?
      I don't think society should institute broad rules applying to a class of people based on race. I understand that some may not be able to overcome obstacles without assistance.

      All of the mights, odds are, probably...used in these discussions even point to that.

    14. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:41 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by VDubby18 View Post
      Basically it was a class on how much people suck.
      Better.

    15. 10-10-2012 02:43 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      I don't think society should institute broad rules applying to a class of people based on race. I understand that some may not be able to overcome obstacles without assistance.

      All of the mights, odds are, probably...used in these discussions even point to that.
      How about based on economic status? since the talk has now turned to poor vs middle/upper class?
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkEnergist View Post
      Psssh. I suck dick for the glory. I buy my cocaine.
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain 'Murica! View Post
      I personally have taken it upon myself to try and exterminate as many cows as possible, one filet or ribeye at a time. Join the call to arms, brothers! To the grill!!

    16. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:44 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by NyteGTI View Post
      umm you see anybody in here with great grandfathers that went to Harvard & setup trust funds for them & got them into Harvard? I couldn't care less whether AA stays or goes but using that as an example makes you look like the ignorant southerner that most people sterotype southern white males to be. don't use the 1% as the norm in future conversations & you'll get ALOT further. what happened in this case was unfair to EVERYONE not just certain races... wake up
      I don't know about you but my drunk and drug addicted parents that didn't graduate high school taught me everything I know about pulling my self up by my boot straps. Or not.

    17. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:46 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by NyteGTI View Post
      How about based on economic status? since the talk has now turned to poor vs middle/upper class?
      I see more of a point with that but it still falls on my deaf ears.

    18. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:49 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by pwm View Post
      Just as Akin is an expert on rape and biology, a white guy from coastal Connecticut with rich in-laws is an expert on being disadvantaged due to race. If he says its not a big deal, its not a big deal.
      yup, this.

      this thread rocks... white dudes telling guys who (presumably) arent white "how they should just buck up"



      i OT

    19. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:55 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      yup, this.

      this thread rocks... white dudes telling guys who (presumably) arent white "how they should just buck up"



      i OT
      what can we (white dudes) say? We're used to being in charge.


      ba-dum-chhssssss


      just kidding, folks!

    20. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:56 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      yup, this.

      this thread rocks... white dudes telling guys who (presumably) arent white "how they should just buck up"



      i OT
      What next, poor people passing laws affecting multi-millionaires? What is the world coming to?

    21. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 02:57 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      what can we (white dudes) say? We're used to being in charge.


      ba-dum-chhssssss


      just kidding, folks!
      Most of my heritage is Irish/native american....we have sh!t luck brother.

    22. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 03:05 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      What next, poor people passing laws affecting multi-millionaires? What is the world coming to?
      not if the supreme court can help it...

      wait a minute, im begining to sense a trend... i just cant quite put my finger on it...

    23. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 03:28 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by NyteGTI View Post
      umm you see anybody in here with great grandfathers that went to Harvard & setup trust funds for them & got them into Harvard? I couldn't care less whether AA stays or goes but using that as an example makes you look like the ignorant southerner that most people sterotype southern white males to be. don't use the 1% as the norm in future conversations & you'll get ALOT further. what happened in this case was unfair to EVERYONE not just certain races... wake up
      That appeared to be an example of the sort of advantages AA is targeted at, not an exhaustive list. Pretty sure you're imagining this class warfare stuff, as it didn't enter the conversation before you.

    24. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 03:30 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      I don't think society should institute broad rules applying to a class of people based on race. I understand that some may not be able to overcome obstacles without assistance.

      All of the mights, odds are, probably...used in these discussions even point to that.
      That is what AA is: a broad rule applied to a class of people based on race. What would you prefer? A case-by-case analysis of everyone's background to see if they're disadvantaged because of race might avoid some of the outlying unfairnesses of AA that you complain about, but at 100x the cost.

      AA does a pretty good job of addressing racial unfairness, while still being practical to implement.

    25. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 03:31 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      I don't know about you but my drunk and drug addicted parents that didn't graduate high school taught me everything I know about pulling my self up by my boot straps. Or not.
      That isn't a problem AA is targeted at.

      If your requirement is that AA (or any other such program) address ALL evils in society and do so perfectly, no such program would ever be implemented.

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