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    Thread: So.. a girl a went to school with was murdered down the road this week....

    1. 10-12-2012 10:12 PM #1
      ....and it took the cops 40 minutes to arrive after she called 911 from her cell. She was killed before she was able to give her address. It really didn't make much difference, but why did it take them so long to get there? Drive time was a factor, but not that much.

      For LEO types or people in the know in hurr....what are the processes that the police have to take to locate a person based on cell phone signals?

      Nothing short of her or her BF physically holding a gun when her ex burst through the door would have stopped this from happening, but curiosity has got the best of me on this.

      Her ex blew his head off just about in another friends drive way about a mile and a half from my folks place later that night.

      Linky:
      http://www.thestarpress.com/article/...nclick_check=1

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      10-12-2012 10:20 PM #2
      This is a good example of why you can't rely on the police force for protecting yourself. Sad story.
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      10-12-2012 11:04 PM #3
      Rip

      That's terrible.

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      10-12-2012 11:15 PM #4
      I'm pretty sure it depends on what equipment is in use, but I would think by now that most 911 centers should be able to locate incoming cell calls.

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      10-12-2012 11:18 PM #5
      Terrible.
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      10-12-2012 11:20 PM #6
      Wow- a sad story.

      I fully believe women know when they are with psycho.
      "If you ever try to leave me, I will kill you..."

      Unfortunately if that is the case and they leave the nut- these women should be armed.
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      10-12-2012 11:27 PM #7

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      10-13-2012 12:02 AM #8
      If I know someone that has a gun and is a crazy SOB, I'm running.

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      10-13-2012 12:05 AM #9
      Texas ....
      -Invisible-

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      10-13-2012 12:37 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Wow- a sad story.

      I fully believe women know when they are with psycho.
      "If you ever try to leave me, I will kill you..."

      Unfortunately if that is the case and they leave the nut- these women should be armed.
      One of our counties has a terrible problem with domestic violence and encounters like this one, but a sheriff was actually removed from his post for heavily promoting self defense classes and gun training for women...
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

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      10-13-2012 12:47 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      One of our counties has a terrible problem with domestic violence and encounters like this one, but a sheriff was actually removed from his post for heavily promoting self defense classes and gun training for women...
      Link to story?
      At face value that seems like a silly reason to fire a sheriff, but then again some people seem hell bent on finding the wrong way to do the right thing.
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    12. 10-13-2012 12:52 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Brake_Dust View Post
      Texas ....

      ?
      This would not have happened?
      Not everybody owns a gun here, there are just enough guns to give everyone a gun and still have extras.

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      10-13-2012 01:01 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Air-over-water View Post
      ?
      This would not have happened?
      Not everybody owns a gun here, there are just enough guns to give everyone a gun and still have extras.
      Translation: Texans sell guns to Mexican drug cartel.
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      10-13-2012 01:11 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Link to story?
      At face value that seems like a silly reason to fire a sheriff, but then again some people seem hell bent on finding the wrong way to do the right thing.
      I'll see if I can find it. Nobody came right out and said it, but he started getting all sorts of political trouble once the programs really ramped up. Council members were saying they "didn't like his methods" and such.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

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      10-13-2012 03:08 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Brake_Dust View Post
      Texas ....
      Pretty sure this was Muncie, Indiana.

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      10-13-2012 03:14 PM #16
      All because of *****.
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      10-13-2012 04:02 PM #17
      Jesus that's a sad story.
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      10-13-2012 04:12 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Nothing short of her or her BF physically holding a gun when her ex burst through the door would have stopped this from happening, but curiosity has got the best of me on this.
      sad thing is that a lot of violent assaults that particularly involve rage or loss of control, its either rock out with your glock out, or get killed. its the old expression, nothing more reliable than a hungry dog and a loaded shotgun for when someone is trying to invade your home/do you harm.

      even optimal police response times in suburban areas are 6-10 minutes.
      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

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      10-13-2012 08:49 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      ....and it took the cops 40 minutes to arrive after she called 911 from her cell. She was killed before she was able to give her address. It really didn't make much difference, but why did it take them so long to get there? Drive time was a factor, but not that much.

      For LEO types or people in the know in hurr....what are the processes that the police have to take to locate a person based on cell phone signals?

      Nothing short of her or her BF physically holding a gun when her ex burst through the door would have stopped this from happening, but curiosity has got the best of me on this.

      Her ex blew his head off just about in another friends drive way about a mile and a half from my folks place later that night.

      Linky:
      http://www.thestarpress.com/article/...nclick_check=1
      I was in law enforcement for 16 years and I'll answer your question as best as I can.

      It *generally* works like this (keep in mind some places have better systems than the one we had). Someone calls 911 and doesn't give an address. If it's a land line phone, the hard address shows up in dispatch's computer system. If it's a cell, they'll get a "hit" for an address in the general area. I had quite a few calls like that on my last department where they would dispatch me to a general area for a call, but the dispatcher would always be sure to tell me that the address was coming off a cell tower hit or ping. In some cases, the tower hit was quite a distance from where the person may have actually been. Other times the hit would show up as an intersection or general area, but you wouldn't have an actual address. Without an actual address, there isn't much you can do besides canvas the general area and hope someone flags you down. I'd get calls at intersections that had four or five apartment complexes at them, but no physical address or apartment number. If it was what was generally considered a "BS" call, we weren't going to go door to door on a few hundred apartments to try and find someone. The dispatcher would also try to call the cell number back, but many times the number would not work (like an old phone that only allowed 911 call outs) or would be turned off.

      Best case scenario was that the person would get their 911 call out and then a neighbor or other person would call in a second complaint with a better address. Without that, we had no clue where to go and neither did the fire department, EMS, etc. They used to run an ad campaign that said something like "always know your location, 911 needs to know where to go". You aren't helping yourself if you dial 911 freaking out trying to get help and then have no clue where you are at. I know some circumstances prevent that sometimes, but oh well.

      The other thing people need to realize is this - unless there are what are referred to as "exigent circumstances", we really couldn't do too much anyway. There have been many incidents in the news lately similar to the one you talk about. Someone calls 911, disconnects, and is then found murdered. Even if I show up at the right address, if I don't hear any sounds of struggling coming from inside, someone screaming "help he's trying to kill me", see something through a window, etc. - I can't just kick the door in (4th Amendment violation). There was a case out here about a month or so ago where this happened. Two cops show up, don't hear or see anything from the house/apartment, and then the woman's family finds her dead in the bathtub two days later. They're suing the cops now saying it was there fault, but it was completely normal the way it was handled. If you get a 911 hangup/disconnect, you don't just break into the address it came from - it doesn't work like that. Obviously if you hear or see signs of distress, that changes things and you can make entry. Either that or we would talk the fire department into making entry because their standards for forced entry were lower than ours.

      Hope that answers your question somewhat

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      10-14-2012 11:37 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Translation: The ATF sell guns to Mexican drug cartel.
      FTFY
      Rest easy, Bart.

    21. 10-14-2012 01:12 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      I was in law enforcement for 16 years and I'll answer your question as best as ....
      I guess I was under the impression that with the advent of GPS cell phones that there was some sort of better location abilities avalible in real time to dispatchers. I know that the capability exists, as I've watched NCIS and CSI....

    22. 10-14-2012 01:33 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      I guess I was under the impression that with the advent of GPS cell phones that there was some sort of better location abilities avalible in real time to dispatchers. I know that the capability exists, as I've watched NCIS and CSI....
      Most phones won't get a GPS lock inside, so that doesn't really buy you much. Phones also don't usually have the GPS up and hot unless they're currently running maps. 911 can turn it on and have it broadcast the position, but it requires approval on the 911 side.

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      10-14-2012 07:33 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      I guess I was under the impression that with the advent of GPS cell phones that there was some sort of better location abilities avalible in real time to dispatchers. I know that the capability exists, as I've watched NCIS and CSI....
      Well of course if you saw it on NCIS and CSI it has to be real..........

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      10-14-2012 07:43 PM #24
      my method has always been more reliable...shoot the idiot first, then call 911 to report a home invasion. much better odds on the cops finding you.
      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

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      10-14-2012 07:59 PM #25
      There are several states where if a person who is either charged with or convicted of domestic violence, the police are supposed to confiscate any registered guns they have. Obviously there are some clear limitations to this, the guns have to be registered, and in most states its voluntary. But the reason is that in cases where the abusee goes to the authorities, and the abuser owns a gun, homocide is astronomical. Without the gun the abusee has more time to escape. Its not clear that this is a similar situation, it seems like the ex had some serious other mental health stuff going on. Its heartbreaking. And it doesn't sound like the cops could have done anything even if they were at the door.

      BLB were you close to her?


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    26. 10-14-2012 08:09 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      Well of course if you saw it on NCIS and CSI it has to be real..........
      I was being factious to a large degree. I can find my iPhone to a few feet from my PC via GPS, I just sorta figured the PoPo can too.


      Modestgirl,

      Na, I didn't know her very well. There were 91 people in my class, but we were both on opposite ends of the outcast spectrum. Her ex showed no propensity for violence prior to the event. I guess he just went all out. They had a teenage daughter as well. Her ex was my mother-in-law's Culligan man if that counts for anything.

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      10-14-2012 08:12 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by ModestGirl View Post
      There are several states where if a person who is either charged with or convicted of domestic violence, the police are supposed to confiscate any registered guns they have. Obviously there are some clear limitations to this, the guns have to be registered, and in most states its voluntary. But the reason is that in cases where the abusee goes to the authorities, and the abuser owns a gun, homocide is astronomical. Without the gun the abusee has more time to escape. Its not clear that this is a similar situation, it seems like the ex had some serious other mental health stuff going on. Its heartbreaking. And it doesn't sound like the cops could have done anything even if they were at the door.
      most states are like this. in Michigan, domestic violence precludes you from buying a new gun or getting a concealed pistol license, even for a misdemeanor. felons are always prohibited from owning a firearm by federal law, therefore any serious abuse charges should require an individual to give up their guns. the downside of course is that someone plotting to murder someone is rarely rational enough to give a damn about the misdemeanor or felony for unlawfully possessing a firearm.
      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

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      10-14-2012 08:21 PM #28
      SULPHUR SPRINGS....

      what a pleasant name
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      10-14-2012 08:31 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by mavric_ac View Post
      SULPHUR SPRINGS....

      what a pleasant name
      It's actually a fairly common name, and many states have a Sulphur Springs.
      It may related to hot springs/geothermal activity.
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      10-15-2012 09:15 AM #30
      Unless the police had the ability to teleport through the phone lines/fire up a time machine, the outcome was going to be the same was what I got out of the article.

    31. 10-15-2012 10:18 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      I guess I was under the impression that with the advent of GPS cell phones that there was some sort of better location abilities avalible in real time to dispatchers. I know that the capability exists, as I've watched NCIS and CSI....
      Plus not everyone has new GPS-enabled phones to begin with. I tried calling to report a one-car crash-with-injuries that I came upon and I didn't know where I was, just a back road that was miles and miles long w/o markers. It was the most useless attempt ever. 911 couldn't tell which county I was even in. *go over to injured but conscious driver* "So, um, do you know where we are?"

    32. 10-15-2012 12:08 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by compy222 View Post
      my method has always been more reliable...shoot the idiot first, then call 911 to report a home invasion. much better odds on the cops finding you.
      Yeah, they will find you quick when you tell them you just shot someone breaking into your house.
      But make sure you shoot them more than once. After all, you were 'fearing for you life'.

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      10-15-2012 01:31 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      One of our counties has a terrible problem with domestic violence and encounters like this one, but a sheriff was actually removed from his post for heavily promoting self defense classes and gun training for women...
      Interesting. I took a handgun safety course about 10 years ago and it was taught by a local police officer. He spent a lot of time on self defense in the class and rather bluntly stated "what's the best way to disarm an intruder? By disabling their central nervous system. What's the best way to disable someone's central nervous system? SHOOT THEM IN THE HEAD!" He went on and on about how you should never shoot to scare an intruder or shoot to merely injure them, but you should, and need, to shoot to kill.

      I don't disagree with what he said, but it's odd that in one part of the country a sheriff may have been removed for similar comments that a handgun safety course instructor in another part of the country probably still teaches.
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      10-15-2012 01:33 PM #34

    35. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      10-15-2012 01:43 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
      Interesting. I took a handgun safety course about 10 years ago and it was taught by a local police officer. He spent a lot of time on self defense in the class and rather bluntly stated "what's the best way to disarm an intruder? By disabling their central nervous system. What's the best way to disable someone's central nervous system? SHOOT THEM IN THE HEAD!" He went on and on about how you should never shoot to scare an intruder or shoot to merely injure them, but you should, and need, to shoot to kill.

      I don't disagree with what he said, but it's odd that in one part of the country a sheriff may have been removed for similar comments that a handgun safety course instructor in another part of the country probably still teaches.
      Mine didn't teach head shots, but advocated several in the chest/center mass area as you're far more likely to hit the bigger target.

      His statements were:
      You don't carry unless you're willing to draw.
      You don't draw unless you're willing to fire.
      You don't fire unless you're ready to kill.

      I don't disagree with any of this, and I seriously disagreed with the opposition this sheriff got for his programs. But then again, there is still a lot of backwards thinking in said county, and unfortunately it's seeped into local politics. Not my county, not much we could do about it.

      When I took my concealed carry course, our class was 60/40 female/male. I had some excellent eye candy for company.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

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