evo Magazine: GT86 vs. E30 M3 vs. Integra Type-R vs. Clio 200 Cup

[C4 A6]

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[Tuneman7]

Going in on Monday to check out the FR-S a bit more in depth. I think the 86's steering is a result of the low rolling resistance tires especially in this company.

[Charlie84]

I have to imagine a 944 S/S2 is in the same league, if not better, than any of these cars.

[C4 A6]

I have to imagine a 944 S/S2 is in the same league, if not better, than any of these cars.

The S might be in the class. The S2 is over the "HP limit" by 8. But even then, the S is close to 3000lbs. Would it have been nice to include? Sure. But would it have "won"? Not sure about that.

[a2a4raddo]

I have to imagine a 944 S/S2 is in the same league, if not better, than any of these cars.

The S2 is too powerfull to be in his group, and while the S fits the power requirement, it is too fat to be included......87-88 944 S weighs 1,300KG


Great article though. The E30 M3 and Integra Type-R are wonderful cars to drive. Have not had a chance to take an FR-S or BRZ for a spin yet.

[BattleRabbit]

The more I look at them/hear about them, the more the Toyobaru twins remind me of the 924S. Supremely talented chassis, pretty ok engine. A little bit of finessing and BAM, darn near perfect.

That would be a good comparison. E30 M3, 924S, B13 Sentra SE-R and BRZ.

[Brimjolt]

GT86's interior looks super super riced out. Hate it.

[Saintor]

The GT86's aura starts to fade.

[Diamond Dave]

It's like being asked who would win a fight between He-Man or Lion-O

I can confirm that the author of this comparo is in his early 40's.

[Robski92]

The GT86's aura starts to fade.

That's what I'm starting to see. In a couple of years we are gonna be saying man what a great chassis but it was just to slow.

[C4 A6]

The more I look at them/hear about them, the more the Toyobaru twins remind me of the 924S. Supremely talented chassis, pretty ok engine. A little bit of finessing and BAM, darn near perfect.

That would be a good comparison. E30 M3, 924S, B13 Sentra SE-R and BRZ.

The battle of the mediocres? Why is the E30 M3 on that list then? Because the engine is all too well known for having problems?

[above8k]

So FRS came last?

[TM87]

The more I look at them/hear about them, the more the Toyobaru twins remind me of the 924S. Supremely talented chassis, pretty ok engine. A little bit of finessing and BAM, darn near perfect.

That would be a good comparison. E30 M3, 924S, B13 Sentra SE-R and BRZ.

ooooo You didnt include ITR. Now C4 A6 is gonna go VTEC on your azz.
His next post is gonna have mandatory VW hate post and then it starts.

[C4 A6]

So FRS came last?

I think price notwithstanding: Clio < GT86 < ITR = M3

Price in factor: GT86 < Clio < M3 < ITR

So, no, the GT86 didn't come last. Not really anyway.

[C4 A6]

ooooo You didnt include ITR. Now C4 A6 is gonna go VTEC on your azz.
His next post is gonna have mandatory VW hate post and then it starts.

He said "talented chassis, ok engine."

The ITR had a talented chassis an amazing engine.

Sorry, unsuccessful troll is unsuccessful.

And you say I'M the one that derails threads? Whatever happened to that "what exhaust to get on my 1.8T Jetta" thread? I called you out, you didn't reply. What's the matter, realize that I was right and that you're a bigger dickhead than I am?

[C4 A6]

That's what I'm starting to see. In a couple of years we are gonna be saying man what a great chassis but it was just to slow.

But look at the Miata.

[Charlie84]

I wonder if all these famed French hot hatches live up to the hype. Sucks that we don't get them in the U.S. I'd really like to thrash one.

[koko12]

Nice article. Personally I think the GT86 can handle a lot more power and that's why it seem kind of dull when compare to cars like the others in this test.

[nickthaskater]

The GT86's aura starts to fade.

Why? Because Evo said it was one star short of 2 of the most iconic sport coupes of all time and the modern benchmark of hot hatches which you can't get in North America? Yeah, that's a really poor showing.

I'd still give one of my testicles for an FR-S. It's an amazing little car.

[KARMANN_20V]

That Clio surely is a hot hatch! Do Want.

[Klim18]

I'll take the Clio!

[TM87]

He said "talented chassis, ok engine."

The ITR had a talented chassis an amazing engine.

Sorry, unsuccessful troll is unsuccessful.

And you say I'M the one that derails threads? Whatever happened to that "what exhaust to get on my 1.8T Jetta" thread? I called you out, you didn't reply. What's the matter, realize that I was right and that you're a bigger dickhead than I am?

No, i acutally have a job and dont spend my days on TCL. Maybe next time Junior.

[BattleRabbit]

The battle of the mediocres? Why is the E30 M3 on that list then? Because the engine is all too well known for having problems?

No, because I think the 924S and the BRZ are very similar in intent and execution. I don't think it's mediocre, it's just not perfect. I think dynamically the 924S is at least the E30 M3's equal, even if the engine isn't quite as good.

[Tiny4cyl]

C4 gotta defend that type-rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

C4 gonna buy up all the type-rrrrrrrrrsssss

[Porridgehead]

I own an E30 M3 and I approve this article.

Religious wars aside, better cars abide, whatever your stance, I like this comparison.

[DJMRDARK]

That's what I'm starting to see. In a couple of years we are gonna be saying man what a great chassis but it was just to slow.

Some of us have said this all along. It really needs a little more power to match the hype.

[C4 A6]

Some of us have said this all along. It really needs a little more power to match the hype.

The same case could be made of all cars with great chassis. For some reason manufacturers just don't give them more power (case in point: Miata.)

But you have to think, would these cars really have such great handling characteristics if they had a bigger (and heavier) engine or a turbo (adds weight, throttle response not as good)?

What manufacturers SHOULD do would be to max out the NA motors that come with these cars and push the 120hp/L boundary. But if they did that, then longevity goes way down.

[C4 A6]

No, i acutally have a job and dont spend my days on TCL. Maybe next time Junior.

I'm actually going to school so I can get a better job and not have to drive older VWs in my 20s. Maybe next life, old man

/s

You do realize how stupid arguments like that sound, right? Because you're older and have more experience, right? Because older = smarter, right?

[nickthaskater]

Some of us have said this all along. It really needs a little more power to match the hype.

Not once when I drove it did I ever feel it "needed" more power; it's plenty punchy. Then again, I'm not jaded by driving 500+ horsepower Ferraris, Paganis and Lamborghinis every other weekend like most reviewers.

[20aeman]

All those cars look appealing to me...except for the Toyota; strangely enough.

[C4 A6]

Not once when I drove it did I ever feel it "needed" more power; it's plenty punchy. Then again, I'm not jaded by driving 500+ horsepower Ferraris, Paganis and Lamborghinis every other weekend like most reviewers.

Evo doesn't do a lot of high HP reviews. Much of their stuff is comparing new to old and subjective driving feel, so you can trust their opinion on low HP cars as well.

[Need4Speed2012]

It's amazing how the ITR fared so well after all these years against a newer RWD GT86 and was rated higher than the GT86. Now imagine if Honda came out with a RWD ITR.

[MoPho]

Not once when I drove it did I ever feel it "needed" more power; it's plenty punchy. Then again, I'm not jaded by driving 500+ horsepower Ferraris, Paganis and Lamborghinis every other weekend like most reviewers.

I just had a BRZ for a couple of days and didn't really think it needed more power either (ok, maybe 25hp bump if at all), it was a hell of a lot of fun wringing it out. As a matter of fact, I thought the car way more fun to drive than the Lexus LFA (engine noise aside) I drove the week before.
And I am jaded from driving 500+hp exotics, I think they are somewhat boring since you can't use the performance on the street (ask the cop who pulled me over in the LFA) and they are boring on the track too since they are so over competent that a mere mortal driver can't even approach the limits of them.
BRZ is a great balance for real world performance, if you think it needs big power, you need to find better roads to drive or stick to pony cars


It seems like most of the complaints against the Toyota in the article came down to the tires, which has been a gripe in a lot of the reviews

[20aeman]

It's amazing how the ITR fared so well after all these years against a newer RWD GT86 and was rated higher than the GT86. Now imagine if Honda came out with a RWD ITR.

I'm pretty sure they called that the S2000.

[stascom]

Yeah, I'm down with Clio from this review, as well. It's just cool