My current fetish...Westfalias.

[Numbersix]

We're selling our boat, sad to say. Which leads me to think about having similar adventures on land rather than off. And that has me thinking about potentially scratching a longtime itch: buying a Vanagon Westy.



I love camping; my other half is not hot on sleeping on the ground in a tent, being cold, being wet, blah blah blah. I can't think of anything better than a Westy for staying dry, warm, and comfortable. It's also a moderately usable vehicle for around-town driving, as long as that doesn't involve too many parking garages.

Downsides: They are all old now, and will need a lot of care and attention. You're driving a mini-motorhome, and hence you have a lot of systems to maintain. The waterboxer was a terrible idea when new and hasn't gotten any better in the past 35 years. They are stupid expensive for a 30 year old vehicle.

I don't care. I want one. Will I pull the trigger? Doubtful. I'd have to give up the Miata and I'm not sure I want to do that. But if I found one with a Subaru or Golf engine swap...





Anyone owned one? Driven one?

[rs4-380]

you pretty much summed it all up. People bitch about how expensive they are but when you look at them as a motorhome it makes more sense.

A good portion of ones on the road have some sort of engine conversion, but that being said there is quite a network of parts, support and knowledge for the water boxers.

there is a very active forum over at www.thesamba.com which you may want to consider browsing, both to get a feel for them as well as perhaps locate one.

[Numbersix]

Thanks Dave. I've started to explore the boards on TheSamba and Westfalia.org.

There's a non-Westy camper conversion local to me right now that has a VW 2.0 motor swap, rebuilt transaxle, and a number of other updates for decent money. I think I'd rather hold out for a real Westy though.

[VWVan]

I have fond memories of my parents 84' they bought new back in the day. We went on numerous trips down to the US, one time going to Disneyland. As far as I remember he never had any problems with it, mind you he sold it before any head issues came up. Good luck on the hunt for one.

[McBanagon]

A lot of people like the Multivan/Weekender (which is the camper without the kitchen)

It will still seat six (or seven if it's a '87.5-later) has a pop-up table, rear cabinet, and will still sleep four. If you already have camping equipment, set up the stove outside.

Lots less to maintain.
http://www.vanagontravels.com/p/take...-interior.html

Scary Vanagon terms you should get to know
Seam rust
Water jacket seals
Long hills
3-4th gear slider

[tip]

I love Westy's. They command a hell of a premium here in the PNW, though.

We borrowed one for Sasquatch festival at the Gorge 2 or 3 years ago, and god it was awesome. The Z-bed is so comfy, we chose to sleep on it instead of up top. The pop top does make it nice headroom wise.

The wifey and I are saving up for a Weekender hardtop, which are still reasonably priced. I'll drive it till it needs a motor, then swap a boring old ABA in it. Maybe a TDI if the funds are available.

Do it!

[mutcth]

Oh no! A friend of a friend showed up with an immaculate 84 Westy. It was tempting. I drove it down the block - and turned around at the end, laughing. I love the camping part of these, but hate the driving part.

We came VERY close to buying a Eurovan Weekender to scratch the itch. In the end, I'm a lot happier that we bought the T@B and then the Airstreams.

Still, I have piles of VW camper books on my nightstand, so I fully get the wanderlust. If I were to buy a VW camper (instead of a Sprinter-based one), I'd get a nice Eurovan Camper from the rust-free parts of the US. Wish VW imported the T5 California...

EDIT: As complex as these are, you're not dealing with much plumbing. Lots of joys dealing with black tanks and winterizing.

Tom

[vwlarry]

My uncle bought a new 1980 Campmobile (what we called them back then) and loved it. It was milk chocolate brown with that nice plaid trim inside. It was slow, but really fun to drive nonetheless.

[Flavo Cadillac]

I have owned over a dozen vw busses and 3 of the boxy variety that you are inquiring about. If I were to buy one now for camping I would get one with just the fold out bed. You really don't need that highly inadequate sink or fridge. The table is nice though. The bed when folded out is the perfect size of a futon which is much more comfortable. If you skip the westy you can get a decent one and build a frame in the back for a bed and keep the miata. Buy one with a rear sunroof and you can still stand up.

The sunroof bus is one of the few that I never owned so when I got the chance a few years ago to buy one at a good price I jumped on it. After all my favorite vehicle ever to this day was my 81 vanagon. I couldn't deal with it as a pretty much DD though and quickly sold it again.

I suggest you go drive one locally if you have never or have not in a long time. If it's just for the occasional weekend blast I think I would be happy with it though.

[OOOO-A3]

http://www.westfalia-enterprises.com/

I've been there; I was staying at the AirTel, was walking to get some food and suddenly it was like a wormhole opened in the space-time continuum and BAM! there were pristine Vanagons!

[Numbersix]

A lot of people like the Multivan/Weekender (which is the camper without the kitchen)

It will still seat six (or seven if it's a '87.5-later) has a pop-up table, rear cabinet, and will still sleep four. If you already have camping equipment, set up the stove outside.

Lots less to maintain.
http://www.vanagontravels.com/p/take...-interior.html

Scary Vanagon terms you should get to know
Seam rust
Water jacket seals
Long hills
3-4th gear slider

I know about seam rust, the wasserboxer engine issues (of which the HG's seem to be just one of many), and I've had friends with Vanagons have to rebuild the transmissions due to a failed 3-4 slider and/or bad mainshaft bearings.

Long hills...well, that's only made tolerable by swapping to some other form of propulsion.

Funny you should mention the Weekender; I think they make more sense in a lot of ways than a full Westy. There's an utterly minty one for sale locally with a lot of very nice upgrades...

Oh no! A friend of a friend showed up with an immaculate 84 Westy. It was tempting. I drove it down the block - and turned around at the end, laughing. I love the camping part of these, but hate the driving part.

We came VERY close to buying a Eurovan Weekender to scratch the itch. In the end, I'm a lot happier that we bought the T@B and then the Airstreams.

Still, I have piles of VW camper books on my nightstand, so I fully get the wanderlust. If I were to buy a VW camper (instead of a Sprinter-based one), I'd get a nice Eurovan Camper from the rust-free parts of the US. Wish VW imported the T5 California...

EDIT: As complex as these are, you're not dealing with much plumbing. Lots of joys dealing with black tanks and winterizing.

Tom

Yeah. I know. They are pretty primitive by today's standard. And underpowered doesn't begin to describe them. 4000lbs propelled by 95hp (in 2.1 form, and when new) makes for perhaps the slowest vehicle I can imagine driving.

I'd definitely consider a Urabus 2.2 or 2.5 swap (with new head gaskets, natch) once the wasserboxer starts showing HG failures.

[mutcth]

Funny you should mention the Weekender; I think they make more sense in a lot of ways than a full Westy. There's an utterly minty one for sale locally with a lot of very nice upgrades...

Did Vanagon Weekenders have the 12volt frig like Eurovans? Having a refrigerator when traveling, even a tiny one, is one of the things we really like about our RVing lifestyle.

Tom

[mikegilbert]

We are in the NW- the mecca of Westys and Vanagons. Hell, if you're feeling adventurous, check out www.smallcar.com for an EE20 conversion.

[rs4-380]

I'd definitely consider a Urabus 2.2 or 2.5 swap (with new head gaskets, natch) once the wasserboxer starts showing HG failures.

The 2.5 totally transforms these vans.

[Numbersix]

The 2.5 totally transforms these vans.

I really think they need at least that much power to be decent to drive in traffic. 95hp just doesn't cut it, especially in the heavier Westy.

I think I may stick to looking for a Weekender if I get one.

[71DubBugBug]

http://www.westfalia-enterprises.com/

I've been there; I was staying at the AirTel, was walking to get some food and suddenly it was like a wormhole opened in the space-time continuum and BAM! there were pristine Vanagons!

theres another company similar to this one, that charges even more
now a syncro westfalia, thats a small fortune

[TM87]

Loved these, unfortunately there is never a good one around or an excuse to buy one. I know a guy who has 3 of them. He uses one for work(electrician) and the other two jsut sit. Maybe i should visit soon.

[VR6 GLX Man]

I don't anything about these, but there was one guy at my job who has one of these, it's just a Vanagan, not a westfalia model. I stopped the guy friday and asked if he was the first owner, and was suprised that he wasn't, the thing looked brand new for an 87, the interior was perfect. I think the for sale sign on it was 3500. Now that I think of it, not sure if it was a westy model or not, wish I would've paid attention more.

[Son]

[_a2coupe2a_]

I picked up a 93 mv recently and fell in love. Over the years i have grown to hate vw's but i think this is the last product that i can justify putting money into.

Its a eurovan, 5cyl, auto... Its dreadfully slow, the body has rust and there is always something broken but i have never had such a multi functional vehicle.

If i go to the beach i can put up the table, set up the laptop with hotspot and have a mobile office in the back. If i go to the drive in i can pop the hatch, lay the back seat into a queen sized bed and have an awesome movie experience. I go camping its dry, warm, and comfortable.

I can say for certain that within the next 5 years i will do a tdi syncro swap. Cost for parts is around 7k and the labor really isnt that bad as everything swaps over.

Just be aware.. they break... OFTEN. Even though i have maintained the hell out of mine there always seems to be some new problem be it major or minor. Just be prepared, have AAA and keep money in savings.

[BigSkyGLI]

I'd own one of these here in New England, but after having a Vanagon out West, I would not own one there.

With the stock motor that thing could barely get out of its own way on the highway. It could be quite scary on mountain passes in 2nd or 3rd gear with tractor trailers trying to maintain speed.

If there was a crosswind, forget it...you will build arms like Popeye trying to keep it in a straight line.

The other scary thing about these is there is nothing in front of you. I will never forget a good sized mule deer framed in the front glass at 5am doing about 50. I must have clipped the rear hoof on that thing it was that close, luckily he was at a full run. The g/f screamed "Oh my GOD", the dog joined us in the front under full braking. It was scary.

If you are going to putt around town and do backcountry two lane trips, I think they are a blast. A motor swap would definitely liven things up, but you still have some SERIOUS aerodynamic challenges to overcome.

And when you get one of these, isn't the plan to take your time getting to your destination? I mean, you are already IN your destination, so what's the hurry? Maybe we were lucky, but our stock motor never gave us issues in the 3 years we drove it.

Only other piece I have is get a manual tranny, but I am sure that goes without saying.

[Jonesy02719]

I recently had an 85 Westy. The exterior was in rough shape, but the interior was almost perfect. I loved it while I had it, and regret selling it. However, the thing was rediculously expensive to get back on the road and maintain. Cost-prohibitively so.

[71DubBugBug]

http://www.gowesty.com/vehicle_sales.php Check out the prices

[MagicBus]

I love camping; my other half is not hot on sleeping on the ground in a tent, being cold, being wet, blah blah blah. I can't think of anything better than a Westy for staying dry, warm, and comfortable. It's also a moderately usable vehicle for around-town driving, as long as that doesn't involve too many parking garages.

Downsides: They are all old now, and will need a lot of care and attention. You're driving a mini-motorhome, and hence you have a lot of systems to maintain. The waterboxer was a terrible idea when new and hasn't gotten any better in the past 35 years. They are stupid expensive for a 30 year old vehicle.

Oddly, my wife and I are the opposite. She's the hardcore wilderness backpacker and camper, and I'm the roughing-it-in-style guy. I had the Vanagon long before we met, and usually, when we go camping, we take it. I have yet to sleep in a tent and not wake up with back pain.

And yes, the waterboxer is the absolute Achilles' heel in the Vanagon.

I have fond memories of my parents 84' they bought new back in the day. We went on numerous trips down to the US, one time going to Disneyland. As far as I remember he never had any problems with it, mind you he sold it before any head issues came up. Good luck on the hunt for one.

We've had Vanagons in the family since my parents bought their first in 1985 (new). We drove it (well, two of them) from NY/NJ to Florida numerous times when my brothers and I were young. As a NEW car, they were pretty reliable. We were in a black ice fender bender in 1989 and rather than have the Vanagon fixed (it was still running and driving) they sold it, and took that and the insurance money and put it towards a brand new 1989 Vanagon. My dad still uses the 1989 as a work truck for his business to this day, which might lead you to think it's been cheap and reliable. Not the case - it's been expensive to keep on the road since around 1999, including engine #2, a transmission rebuild, a couple of expensive exhaust systems, lots of cooling system work, etc.

A lot of people like the Multivan/Weekender (which is the camper without the kitchen)

It will still seat six (or seven if it's a '87.5-later) has a pop-up table, rear cabinet, and will still sleep four. If you already have camping equipment, set up the stove outside.

Lots less to maintain.

Scary Vanagon terms you should get to know
Seam rust
Water jacket seals
Long hills
3-4th gear slider

A lot of people overlook the standard 7 passenger vans, too. Honestly, due to how cheap and how much lighter they are, I swear by the hardtop models. As long as you have the folding bed, just toss in a cooler and a camp stove, and you have most of what you get with a Westy, but with more utility and better seating.

As for the list of issues, seam rust really isn't too bad an issue for hardtop vans unless the van was driven year-round in salt. It's a huge issue on Westaflias, as the stock insulation in the walls behind the kitchen area traps a LOT of moisture.

The water jacket (usually known as head gasket - though the die-hards will argue you on the semantics) issues are the big problem. Although there is the rare Vanagon that will go 200,000-300,000 miles without any maintenance, these are by far the exception. If you buy a stock Waterboxer, you are almost guaranteed to need to deal with expensive engine issues before long. I lucked out and made it 9 years with mine before the bottom end wore out. But, it wasn't a daily driver, and that was after around 35,000 miles of scrupulous maintenance, light duty driving, and garaging. My parents had to deal with water jacket issues on their 1989 van at around 60,000 miles, at the latest.

Aside from that, the bottom ends of these engines tend to give up when mine did (around 160,000 miles, and the previous owner of my van had the water jacket gaskets replaced before I bought it). My solution was to cross my fingers and toss in a cheap, used engine. Also, these vans will display weird electronic engine management glitches, and you're on the hook to hunt those down, as these vans are 100% non-OBD.

If the van has been maintained, long hills aren't too bad to deal with. As for the 3/4 transmission synchro slider, most of these have been fixed already with an updated factory part and won't fail that way again. My van has a 1990 build date and already had the updated part when built, so it's a non-issue for me.

I love Westy's. They command a hell of a premium here in the PNW, though.

We borrowed one for Sasquatch festival at the Gorge 2 or 3 years ago, and god it was awesome. The Z-bed is so comfy, we chose to sleep on it instead of up top. The pop top does make it nice headroom wise.

The wifey and I are saving up for a Weekender hardtop, which are still reasonably priced. I'll drive it till it needs a motor, then swap a boring old ABA in it. Maybe a TDI if the funds are available.

Westfalias do sell for a LOT more money. So much so that I wouldn't consider buying one. I think the headroom is the only real advantage, but since the van is so small, how much time will you spend in it aside from sleeping? There's more than enough headroom to get by with a hardtop. You can't stand, but that's a small price to pay for the savings, IMO.

My uncle bought a new 1980 Campmobile (what we called them back then) and loved it. It was milk chocolate brown with that nice plaid trim inside. It was slow, but really fun to drive nonetheless.

I believe that color is known as Assuan Brown.

I have owned over a dozen vw busses and 3 of the boxy variety that you are inquiring about. If I were to buy one now for camping I would get one with just the fold out bed. You really don't need that highly inadequate sink or fridge. The table is nice though. The bed when folded out is the perfect size of a futon which is much more comfortable. If you skip the westy you can get a decent one and build a frame in the back for a bed and keep the miata. Buy one with a rear sunroof and you can still stand up.

The sunroof bus is one of the few that I never owned so when I got the chance a few years ago to buy one at a good price I jumped on it. After all my favorite vehicle ever to this day was my 81 vanagon. I couldn't deal with it as a pretty much DD though and quickly sold it again.

Agreed. I think the Westfalia models are overrated. But, the Vanagon platform as a whole - very awesome, and affordable buy-in for a non-Westy.

I know about seam rust, the wasserboxer engine issues (of which the HG's seem to be just one of many), and I've had friends with Vanagons have to rebuild the transmissions due to a failed 3-4 slider and/or bad mainshaft bearings.

Long hills...well, that's only made tolerable by swapping to some other form of propulsion.

Funny you should mention the Weekender; I think they make more sense in a lot of ways than a full Westy. There's an utterly minty one for sale locally with a lot of very nice upgrades...



Yeah. I know. They are pretty primitive by today's standard. And underpowered doesn't begin to describe them. 4000lbs propelled by 95hp (in 2.1 form, and when new) makes for perhaps the slowest vehicle I can imagine driving.

I'd definitely consider a Urabus 2.2 or 2.5 swap (with new head gaskets, natch) once the wasserboxer starts showing HG failures.

A very good idea on the engine swap. The Subaru 2.2 actually does a good job, too, without the typical head gasket issues of a VW waterboxer or a Subaru 2.5. Another good option is the Ford Zetec swap from Bostig engineering. It's the most completely engineered swap out there. But, the Subaru is also a good choice. While no two Subaru swaps tend to turn out the same in the end, there's a huge community supporting them. VW engine swaps will be almost strictly one-off and may introduce one-off issues and weirdness. Eventually, I want to move to a Ford swap, even though I do love the Subaru EJ-series engines.

Did Vanagon Weekenders have the 12volt frig like Eurovans? Having a refrigerator when traveling, even a tiny one, is one of the things we really like about our RVing lifestyle.

I hear the stock fridges (which I think are propane-powered, anyway) aren't known o be very effective. I repeat my earlier remark about just taking along a big cooler. Much more practical in the long run. There's something to be said about having a fully-contained vehicle, but I prefer just to take along what I need for a particular trip (cooler, camp stove, etc), and to be able to drive without that stuff when needed.

[Numbersix]

The Bostig swaps intrigue me, but I admit I know a lot less about them than I do the Subaru swaps. It helps that Small Car is right down the road from me, so if I were to do a Subaru swap that'd be where I'd go for the conversion parts and wiring harness. I realize there's no cheap way to do a well-engineered swap, but I can't think it's less expensive in the long run to do a Subaru/Zetec swap than to continue to maintain a Wasserboxer--especially given some of the necessary engine parts are now NLA from VW (as I understand it).

I get the issue with hills and crosswinds. One of the first things I'd do to any Vanagon I buy would be to rebuild the front end components and put Bilsteins all around, as well as upgrading to 16" wheels with wider properly load-rated tires. I realize that wouldn't totally remove the sensitivity to crosswinds, but owners that have made those modifications were quite happy with the improvements to stability.

[rs4-380]

you don't need to know much about the bostig swaps, that's the whole point, they are basically fully engineered drop in setups. The EJ swaps started from a more grassroots effort and therefore there is a lot more variability from one to the other.

Dare I say that my syncro with an EJ25 is spritely. You are going from ~90 (on a good day) to 165hp. That's like taking a 200hp car and modding it to 360hp. They are geared so short to deal with the lack of power that it can actually pull off 0-30 pretty quickly (although shifting that 3 foot long shifter sows it down a bit).

[unimogken]

Just yesterday I saw a Honda Element AWD with a poptop like the Westys and it actually looked really nice!

When I was in the market for one I settled on a basic 7 passenger Vanagon because the camper versions all felt too heavy and slow on the road. I know they aren't supposed to be rocket ships but I at least wanted it to get out of it's way and not get reat ended. I have all of the stuff including the engine to convert my van when I ever have the time to get to it.

[unimogken]

Oh I forgot to mention. . . . If you do get one make sure to replace the nipple where the fuel line goes thru the firewall ASAP! It is the major cause of fires!

[mutcth]

Just wanted to thank the collective for this thread. Spent quite an enjoyable time reading the Gowesty and the rather impressive Bostig websites. Not that I'd ever own one (I've got enough entertainment from the Airstream), but still fun to dream...

Tom

[Numbersix]

A good thread, to be sure!

I'd think about a trailer, but I have nothing to tow one with and nowhere to store it. If I really want to go down that road, I can borrow my dad's '08 GMC Duramax and hook up his 30' Arctic Fox fifth wheel. (I don't want to do that, though. Ever. The thought of towing that enormous trailer freaks me out.)

To me, the Vanagon Weekender/Westy is a great compromise between reasonable size to drive in town/park at the house, fantastic space efficiency and utilization, and (apart from the stupid kludgey design of the Wasserboxer) pretty smart engineering.

I think the Weekender with a Fiamma awning is the sweet spot for me. Gives me more utility for weekend projects/hauling a future dog/etc, but still offers 4 bunks for sleeping, standing headroom, and storage. I can add a house battery and inverter if I want, and run a small cooler off a deep cycle house battery.

[karl_1052]

The waterboxer was a terrible idea when new and hasn't gotten any better in the past 35 years.

There is a fix for that.

[Numbersix]

That's true, and/or just buy an air-cooled Vanagon.

I think I'd prefer a repowered Vanagon, though. The old air-cooled 2.0 isn't exactly a barn-burner, either, and the older vans are definitely less stable than the Vanagons (having driven both a fair bit).

[Rockerchick]

My Father In Law has an '84 Westy. Snagged it from a junkyard, IIRC. Swapped in the 2.2 Subaru motor and re-geared the transmission. Its a blast. And not too bad on gas, all things considered. I think we managed 23mpg driving it to the Outer Banks a few years ago. Did great on that trip. Its nice because you can set up camp in a matter of minutes. Then close the top, and you're ready to roll again. I love that van It was daily driven for awhile. The weekender setup is nice though. That's what I think we'd buy if there wasn't a Westy in the family already. The cabinets and all just add weight. But they still are pretty awesome. His is in really good shape too.

He's also got an '86 Syncro with a 1Z TDI swapped into it.

[Sporin]

I love these as well.

Did the Weekend have the poptop? Would be nice to have the headroom and the boy could sleep up there.

I wouldn't want the sink/fridge anyway, would rather have the space. A Coleman stove outside for cooking, and set up a dual, deep cycle battery system with an ARB Fridge inside.... or just a cooler.

Realistically, way too tiny for my family but it's fun to look.

[Diamond Dave]

We're selling our boat, sad to say. Which leads me to think about having similar adventures on land rather than off. And that has me thinking about potentially scratching a longtime itch: buying a Vanagon Westy.

Jon- ho0w is it possible to share so many disparate vehicle interests with another person; 84 GLI, Saabs, Miatas We're looking at Weekenders right now as well. Love camping, need the extra seats for soccer/snowboarding/family and the wife isn't fired up about how huge Suburbans are. We also like to do overnight roadtrips to SoCal or AZ so it would be nice to have something the kids or (the releif driver) could sleep in the back.

I can't stop thinking about the simplicity of something like this:

but I can't think it's less expensive in the long run to do a Subaru/Zetec swap than to continue to maintain a Wasserboxer--especially given some of the necessary engine parts are now NLA from VW (as I understand it).

Less about cost; more about low maintenance value, greater driving speed flexibility, and peace of mind over the wasser.


You're right about engines. While I LOVE the boxer sound of a EJ25 swap, I'm drawn to the TDI torque. From what I can tell though, if you start out with a good one (i.e. a clean van with ~150K miles in the $6K range), you shouldn't lose money on the back end. And you'll certainly come out clean if you do a quality conversion.