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    Thread: MK3 Instrument Cluster Upgrade in MK1

    1. 12-03-2012 09:00 PM #1
      Anybody done? Plugged it in today, got various interesting results. I know T28/10 at connector is for the tach, and I believe this signal comes from the ECU in a MK3 ABA setup (my diagrams for MK3 are horrible)? Any chance at all I could make this tach work off of a stock 16V Scirocco Jetronic swap? Thx,

      79

    2. Member Fast2.0L's Avatar
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      12-03-2012 11:00 PM #2
      Yes, if you use a 93-95 OBDI Mk3 cluster. Most of the sensors have the same ohm range as the Mk3, so the gas gauge and temp gauge work fine. The main issue is the speedo, you can put a Mk3 VSS sensor into any 020 transmission but it needs to be supplied with 5 volts.
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    3. 12-03-2012 11:11 PM #3
      Thanks, Fast2.0L. No, I have two clusters, a '96 and a '97. The gas gauge seems close, probably a tad high. Temp gauge is about right. I plan to swap in that speed sensor. Tach is all over the place. I haven't tried the '97 cluster yet. Any chance the erratic behavior of the tach is just this particular cluster?

      79

    4. Member Fast2.0L's Avatar
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      12-04-2012 08:48 AM #4
      You can't use an OBDII cluster, they are expecting a digital tach input from an ECU. OBDI still runs off the negative side of the coil.
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    5. 12-04-2012 10:15 AM #5
      thanks man; I'll go get one of those clusters. Hey, how do I get 5 volts to the VSS?

      79

    6. Member gtifly's Avatar
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      12-04-2012 02:27 PM #6
      The VSS has 3 wires.....ground, power, and signal to speedo.
      I have a mk3 2.0 gti cluster in my 84 GTI...everything works. But I don't remember what year the cluster is from.....I did the swap about 10 years ago.

      I will say though, if you can get your hands on a Bentley for the mk3, there is and awesome diagram in it for what all the connections are for the (2) 28-pin connectors of the cluster.
      Last edited by gtifly; 12-04-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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    7. 12-04-2012 03:21 PM #7
      thanks, gtifly. That's awesome. I got lucky; yard where I got my two clusters has a '94 Jetta with the cluster still in it! They'll swap it! Face is a bit banged up but I have the '97 with white faces that I'm keeping either way, so I assume I can swap that out. Car still has the VSS on the 020 tranny, just have to figure out what tool I need for that screw holding it down. Torx?

    8. Member Fast2.0L's Avatar
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      12-04-2012 04:24 PM #8
      Yes it's a Torx. Also the 93-early-94 clusters had curved gauge face edges, so the faces may not be swappable. The clear plastic cover is interchangeable though.
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    9. 12-04-2012 08:47 PM #9
      Thanks for all the info, fast2.0l. I grabbed the VSS out of the same car as the cluster but haven't wired it up yet. I got the '94 cluster plugged in and most things work. Tach showing approx. 1600-1800 at idle but I would estimate reality is probably more like 1100. Also it moves more than seems to be really happening. Next up is figuring out how to wire up that VSS and go from there,

      79

    10. 12-04-2012 08:59 PM #10
      The gas gauge seems close, probably a tad high.

    11. 12-05-2012 12:31 PM #11
      Progress on this, got hold of the wiring diagram for the '94 cluster and peeled back a few layers from the onion. The VSS gets its' power from the fuel injection system, so I guess this is somehow 5V per Fast2.0L. Since I don't have this system I will have to figure out a solution. I'm no wiring/electronics whiz, for sure.

      Re: tach, even on a '94 apparently this signal is coming from the ECM, at terminal 68/22. Ouch. That's why my tach, although more stable than the '96 cluster, is still incorrect. I can only route my wire to the coil, old school. I have no ECM. Not giving up,

      79

    12. 12-05-2012 01:59 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Fast2.0L View Post
      you can put a Mk3 VSS sensor into any 020 transmission but it needs to be supplied with 5 volts.

      I ran a mk3 020 vss in my tdi swap. ran fine on 12V.
      Why do you think it's 5V?

      -Dave

    13. Member gtifly's Avatar
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      12-05-2012 11:38 PM #13
      ^exactly- just need a switched power for the vss (terminal 1 black wire). VSS Terminal 2 (signal) on the vss should be a blue/white wire- this should go to terminal 27 on the cluster. VSS Terminal 3 should be a brown wire to ground. And just for clarification, there are (2) 28-pin connectors on the back of the cluster- I'm referring to the one on top (should be the white plug). Tach signal should go to terminal 10.
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    14. 12-05-2012 11:54 PM #14
      thanks for hanging with this, gtifly and MrDave. Yeah, the rest of the wiring is easy. Now I can slam-dunk this speedo upgrade. Well, at least I can read these German diagrams better now...

      79

    15. 12-06-2012 07:45 PM #15
      Closing this off, I installed the VSS, spliced in the stock connector for it and wired up per discussion above. At first the speedo didn't seem to work, so I temporarily plugged in my '97 cluster and that one worked. Most likely, the speedo just doesn't work on the '94 cluster. No worries, still under warranty. Another plus; the tach is more accurate now! Thanks for all the support,

      79

    16. Member gtifly's Avatar
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      12-06-2012 08:01 PM #16
      Glad it's coming together. Throw up any more questions if you run into some bumps.
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    17. Member Fast2.0L's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 01:48 PM #17
      Sorry about that. You're correct, I just checked the voltage on mine it's 12V.
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    18. 01-18-2013 07:25 PM #18
      There's more to this after all, and I will summarize what I have recently found out in case anybody is considering this swap. I am not sure now that the issue of OBDI vs. OBDII accounts for whether the tach is compatible with the stock Jetronic 16V setup or not. What it boils down to for me is whether there is a cluster compatible with 16V that has the flat gauge faces, because I would like to see if I can swap in the white gauge faces from a '97 Jetta GT cluster. I have one of those laying around, but the tach reads way too high.

      At the wrecking yards I saw that '95 Jettas have flat gauge faces, and have OBDI systems, confirmed by presence of an ISV and also a throttle position sensor that unbolts. The clusters look identical to later models but unfortunately the tachs on those also read very high in my 16V application. I temporarily had a curved face cluster, I believe from a '94, and the tach on that cluster was very close to being accurate. All of these clusters typically have two stickers on them with P/Ns, and I may summarize that in a later post. The wiring diagrams that I have access to do not appear to show any difference between '94 and '95 in regards to where the tach signal originates; in both cases it's the ECM.

      Over the weekend I should be able to get my hands on another '94 that has the curved gauge faces, and once I confirm that the tach works in my car, I will see if the white gauge faces might swap in. I welcome any input,

      '79

    19. Member Fast2.0L's Avatar
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      01-19-2013 03:14 PM #19
      The '95 gauge cluster should work. The OBDI tachs had a high failure rate so you may have gotten a bad one. I went thru two clusters in my '95 Golf because of this.
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    20. Banned fast bunny's Avatar
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      01-19-2013 04:28 PM #20
      anybody have picture of how it looks??

    21. 01-19-2013 04:42 PM #21
      fast bunny - I can get a pic of the gray flat face tomorrow. Fast2.0L - when you say the OBDIs fail a lot, how do they fail? Do they stop entirely? All 4 flat face clusters I've had read too high, usually
      3K - 4K at idle. I now have another curved face unit, and I'll plug it in tomorrow. Here are the P/Ns I have seen. 1st three listed all have flat gauge faces:

      2 different from '95 Jetta OBDI
      1HM 919 910
      1 812 011 174B

      97 Jetta GT (White faces)
      1HM 919 910M
      1 812 004 118B

      96 Golf
      1HM 919 910J
      1 812 011 868B

      94 Jetta (curved gauge facaes)
      1HM 919 035A
      1 812 008 318B

      As you can see, the one curved face unit has a much different P/N. I also see that the flat ones all have 910 in the 1st P/N.

      '79

    22. Member Fast2.0L's Avatar
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      01-19-2013 10:22 PM #22
      They used to start reading the wrong rpm, and when they get hot the needle started jumping around. Eventually they just stop working altogether.
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    23. 01-20-2013 09:34 PM #23
      OK, as expected the tach on the '94 curved face cluster works in my car. Unfortunately, the speedo doesn't, either because the cluster is out of an automatic tranny Jetta or just because it's bad. That's no biggie.

      Attached are the pix of the two. As you can see, what I'm calling 'curved' (first pic) is a more convex, 'relief' contour look, as opposed to the more flat faces (2nd pic), where the face is more flush with the plastic housing it sits behind. The reason the flat unit has its tach pegged at around 3500 RPM is that it stays that way on the incompatible units. That's what it was showing when the engine ran. The '94 cluster returns to 0 like normal when you shut the engine off. Hopefully I've added to the knowledge base a bit here, thanks,

      79




    24. 02-22-2013 07:30 PM #24
      One last note here; swapped for another '94 cluster with working speedo, made sure it was from a MT '94 Jetta. It does work, though for some reason the speedo doesn't read until around 20 MPH or so. Guess you really don't need it lower than that anyway...For reference here is that P/N:

      1 HM 919 035D
      1 812 008 325B

      I have the cluster kind of wedged in the stock dash and will need to fabricate some kind of bezel. I'm also going to have to confirm that the instrument lights work. I'm thinking of adding a fuel mixture gauge to see if I can tune the CIS-E better, think it might be cool to see mixture under different conditions,

      79

    25. Member BoostedOne's Avatar
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      02-22-2013 10:30 PM #25
      Mk3 clusters seem to have a high failure rate for some reason. The mk3 guys seem to track it down to bad solder joints.
      I have tried mk3 clusters a handful of times and sadly haven't been able to get one to work yet. Ended up giving up on both cars and tried b3 passat clusters that worked perfect as soon as plugged in.
      Car 1 is my mk2 golf with a vr. .
      Car 2 is my caddy with an idi diesel. No tach signal yet but everything else works.

      My problems in both weren't even tach related. Just different display stuff didn't work or lights went off when they shouldn't etc

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    26. 11-15-2013 08:20 PM #26
      New development on this; with the help of sdezego on the Corrado forum, found out that a 20K potentiometer in the tach signal wire enables the later, flat cluster to work on my stock 16V CIS-E setup! I have a bit more tuning to do on it and then I may replace the pot with a fixed resistor, but I am totally stoked...turns out the earlier cluster that I was calling 'curved' is actually called 'bubble'...won't need that one anymore. Productive week,

      '79

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