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    Thread: Brand new Lagoon 450 grounded on a reef and bottom torn out.

    1. Banned StormChaser's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 09:17 AM #1
      An unfortunate Lagoon 450 got caught by Sandy Spit ("Sandy" really only applies to the beach behind, this was pure reef).

      This is what happens when a boat, even a large well built one like a Lagoon, grounds on a reef or rocks. Again, why isn't boater education and/or licensing required for everyone who wants to drive a non-human powered boat? Nina, who is pretty new to boating, took the Maryland required class and passed with flying colors the first time.

      Unfortunately these people had just boat the boat at the Annapolis Sailboat Show in October, a first time purchase. Who in their right mind STARTS with a 45 FOOT CAT?! A 45 foot cat would be intimidating to ME on a maiden voyage and I have a 100ton Master (commercial license) and 32 years of boating experience.

      Damn, we're aground and not sure what to do!


      Oh, we'll try to tow it off the reef!


      Uh oh! Get her into deeper water and she seems to be sitting a bit lower than her water line!


      Better get the emergency pumps going!


      Four large pumps running at full pace, yet she seems to be sitting even lower. Not good!


      Ugh, I think we're in trouble!


      Yup, no doubt abut it, we're in deep trouble!


      Going down? First floor, hardware, software, and ladies lingerie!


      Even with 5 large emergency pumps running, still not enough.


      But we have a plan and will get her refloated!


      That's a little better!


      Airbag suspension, a VERY expensive one.


      Hauling her out to look at the damage.


      Meh, that'll buff right out.


      Or maybe not.


      Lots more pics at:
      Last edited by StormChaser; 12-07-2012 at 09:20 AM.

    2. Member prom king's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 09:20 AM #2
      Ice berg right ahead

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      12-07-2012 09:24 AM #3
      As a peasant non-boater, do people have boat insurance? Would they not cover this because these people were idiots?

    4. Member Chmeeee's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 09:29 AM #4
      USCG doesn't require any type of boater licensing for something that big? Where I boat (New Hampshire inland lakes), you are required by law to have a boater's license, which involves taking a class and a fairly involved written test. No guarantee that you know what you're doing, but better than nothing.

      Hopefully they had insurance!
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain 'Murica! View Post
      What if my idea is to go faster around a track than your idea?

      Corvette. Less than you can afford, pal.

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    5. Member Chmeeee's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 09:30 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Ubel GLI View Post
      As a peasant non-boater, do people have boat insurance? Would they not cover this because these people were idiots?
      They don't have to, but you'd be pretty stupid not to on something that expensive. I do believe insurance exists mostly to cover idiocy, no? Most car accidents are caused by at least some measure of idiocy.
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain 'Murica! View Post
      What if my idea is to go faster around a track than your idea?

      Corvette. Less than you can afford, pal.

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    6. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 09:34 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by StormChaser View Post
      Unfortunately these people had just boat the boat at the Annapolis Sailboat Show in October, a first time purchase. Who in their right mind STARTS with a 45 FOOT CAT?! A 45 foot cat would be intimidating to ME on a maiden voyage and I have a 100ton Master (commercial license) and 32 years of boating experience.
      Do you mean first sea-going vessel purchase? or actual, first, never floated outside of the bathtub purchase? Holy cripes. The reason I ask is that I just can't see a no-sail-experience person starting with a big frikin sailboat, even though I know that most of the time these things are just motoring up and down the intercoastal.

      my boating experience is that anything with more draft than a sea-doo and I'd rather someone else pilot it.

    7. Member Ubel GLI's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 09:37 AM #7
      Re: Chmeeee -True but in some car crashes if you turn off traction control and try to Ken-Block a snowy corner some insurance companies will be like "ha ha... no." because the driver was being a turd. I feel like this could be similar.

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      12-07-2012 09:39 AM #8
      Quit playin with your dinghy!
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      12-07-2012 09:41 AM #9
      is that boat a total loss???
      Larry

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      12-07-2012 09:43 AM #10
      There is no requirement for licensing in any state or at the Federal level. No matter what size. You could go buy the Exxon Valdez and as long as you use it as a personal boat/yacht, you are good to go even if you've never stepped foot on a boat before. Some states have implemented a basic but required "boater safety education" class but it is not in every state, and states that do have them have such big/long grandfather clauses that most people haven't taken the class. For example if you were born before 1970, you are exempt from the class in Maryland.

      As far as insurance is concerned, it's much like car insurance. Most states require a minimum amount of liability insurance, some don't. Hull coverage (like having full coverage on a car) is available and I'd think you'd be foolish to not have it. But also keep in mind that the fines for running up on a reef are HUGE. When Jeff Greene's yacht tore up a coral reef, the fine was $1.87 million!

    11. 12-07-2012 09:53 AM #11
      You have to remember, it's rubes like this that keep the industry "afloat". There are a lot of people in my hometown that live off of maintaining, fixing, fueling, cleaning and instructing idiots much like these and their rich person toys.

      That is a really great story though
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      This has to be my jam right now. If I had a few more subcontractors intothis type of **** the old lady would be done by now. Give me the kayak you know somebody is being a poseureur about.
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    12. Banned StormChaser's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 09:56 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by .LSinLV. View Post
      is that boat a total loss???
      We don't know yet, but I sort of doubt it. Base price was $530k, with probably another $30 to $50k worth of options.

    13. Banned StormChaser's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 10:03 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      Do you mean first sea-going vessel purchase? or actual, first, never floated outside of the bathtub purchase? Holy cripes. The reason I ask is that I just can't see a no-sail-experience person starting with a big frikin sailboat, even though I know that most of the time these things are just motoring up and down the intercoastal.

      my boating experience is that anything with more draft than a sea-doo and I'd rather someone else pilot it.
      First boat. Period. More money than brains. Boats like this one are actually used, you don't use a sailing cat as a dock queen and cocktail cruise boat...that's what power boats are for. BTW, I applaud you for realizing that boating is no joke and admitting you aren't comfortable piloting/captaining anything more than a jetski.

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      12-07-2012 10:05 AM #14
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      12-07-2012 10:06 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by StormChaser View Post
      First boat. Period. More money than brains. Boats like this one are actually used, you don't use a sailing cat as a dock queen and cocktail cruise boat...that's what power boats are for. BTW, I applaud you for realizing that boating is no joke and admitting you aren't comfortable piloting/captaining anything more than a jetski.
      hey now, I've had my hands on the throttle of some serious sea-doo jetboats, and more than a few john-boats with pAWARful johnson outboards. I'm ready for the big-leagues!!!

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      12-07-2012 10:20 AM #16
      There's an old quote that goes, "If it flies, ****s, or floats, rent before you buy."

      Seriously, what kind of a ****ing moron with a tiny dick complex buys a 45-foot cat as their first boat? I'm about as landlocked as anybody who isn't a goddamned Bedouin, I know exactly dick about boating, but even I can plainly see that that's too much boat for too little skill.
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      12-07-2012 10:24 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Chmeeee View Post
      USCG doesn't require any type of boater licensing for something that big? Where I boat (New Hampshire inland lakes), you are required by law to have a boater's license, which involves taking a class and a fairly involved written test. No guarantee that you know what you're doing, but better than nothing.

      Hopefully they had insurance!
      A safe boating course won't say a word about how to handle running aground in a big sea and chewing the bottom of the boat up.

      A good friend of mine is in his late 50's and has a house on Cuttyhunk. He's been driving his boat across Buzzards Bay 100 times per year since he was a little kid. He has a 6 pack captains license so it's not like he's untrained. A couple of years ago, he hit an uncharted rock off Penikese and sank her. He, the girl, and the dog all made it off unscathed but it's just dumb luck that another boat was nearby and picked them up before his boat sank.

      Sometimes, **** just happens. Good training helps you avoid some of those situations and can help keep from making a bad situation worse but experienced sailors die all the time from plain ol' dumb bad luck. Airplanes are the same way. Even the best trained pilot can get unlucky and die in a single engine or light twin where you don't have all the redundancy of a big commercial jet.

      You can't stop rich people from buying boats. For the most part, they're only going to kill themselves and their passengers.

    18. Member Chmeeee's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 11:03 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      A safe boating course won't say a word about how to handle running aground in a big sea and chewing the bottom of the boat up.

      A good friend of mine is in his late 50's and has a house on Cuttyhunk. He's been driving his boat across Buzzards Bay 100 times per year since he was a little kid. He has a 6 pack captains license so it's not like he's untrained. A couple of years ago, he hit an uncharted rock off Penikese and sank her.
      I could be wrong, but I get the impression that this reef was not uncharted, given that it has a name. A good safe boating course will absolutely help you avoid hitting charted underwater obstacles. Were it not for the NH safe boating course or some other form of training, I would have long ago torn out my outdrive on one of the thousands of hazards in Winnipesaukee.
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain 'Murica! View Post
      What if my idea is to go faster around a track than your idea?

      Corvette. Less than you can afford, pal.

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      12-07-2012 11:09 AM #19
      Money for a boat but no money for a captain :-(

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      12-07-2012 11:21 AM #20
      we all know who dies first

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    21. 12-07-2012 11:24 AM #21
      You have to remember, it's rubes like this that keep the industry "afloat". There are a lot of people in my hometown that live off of maintaining, fixing, fueling, cleaning and instructing idiots much like these and their rich person toys
      This. After all, licensing does such a great job of keeping 1st time supercar owners from stuffing their new rides

      (BTW, that size Cats are actually fairly mild rides, esp. in that part of the world)
      Last edited by 2VWatatime; 12-07-2012 at 11:28 AM.

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      12-07-2012 11:31 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by BluMagic View Post
      we all know who dies first
      lost it right here!
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    23. 12-07-2012 11:41 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by unitedgti. View Post
      lost it right here!
      don"t go in thar!

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      12-07-2012 11:49 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Chmeeee View Post
      Where I boat (New Hampshire inland lakes), you are required by law to have a boater's license, which involves taking a class and a fairly involved written test. No guarantee that you know what you're doing, but better than nothing.
      I got my NH boater's license when they still allowed the online testing.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      I just want to know why OP thought making a thread in The Car Lounge would help him in any way... We've got a bunch of dudes telling him to "pepper his angus," and an insurance agent who just made a 2:30 appointment to **** someones wife. Classic TCL.

    25. Member Chmeeee's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 11:55 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      I got my NH boater's license when they still allowed the online testing.
      Me too. I left that part out. It's better now that you have to take the test in person, and thus can't have a browser window open to the manual looking up the answers.
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain 'Murica! View Post
      What if my idea is to go faster around a track than your idea?

      Corvette. Less than you can afford, pal.

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      12-07-2012 11:58 AM #26
      that sucks.

      as the saying goes, better to be in the boat with a drink on the rocks, than in the drink with the boat on the rocks.

      i grew up racing and sailing small sailboats. there is an art to that, which i think i can handle. when you screw up at those scales, usually you just end up capsized. however a 45ft sailing cat is not an easy animal to tame. mistakes there have far larger and more expensive ramifications. i honestly feel bad for the owners.
      Regarding DD'ing a tuned Evo:
      Quote Originally Posted by SchrickVR6 View Post
      It's composed at all speeds and at all times...it just feels like you're holding the leash on a 150lb pit bull and praying you don't see a squirrel.

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      12-07-2012 12:05 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Chmeeee View Post
      It's better now that you have to take the test in person, and thus can't have a browser window open to the manual looking up the answers.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      I just want to know why OP thought making a thread in The Car Lounge would help him in any way... We've got a bunch of dudes telling him to "pepper his angus," and an insurance agent who just made a 2:30 appointment to **** someones wife. Classic TCL.

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      12-07-2012 12:06 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by compy222 View Post
      that sucks.

      as the saying goes, better to be in the boat with a drink on the rocks, than in the drink with the boat on the rocks.

      i grew up racing and sailing small sailboats. there is an art to that, which i think i can handle. when you screw up at those scales, usually you just end up capsized. however a 45ft sailing cat is not an easy animal to tame. mistakes there have far larger and more expensive ramifications. i honestly feel bad for the owners.
      You do? I don't. From what Stormie is saying this guy should have started with a sunfish. Money > Brains
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      I just want to know why OP thought making a thread in The Car Lounge would help him in any way... We've got a bunch of dudes telling him to "pepper his angus," and an insurance agent who just made a 2:30 appointment to **** someones wife. Classic TCL.

    29. Member UnitedGTI.'s Avatar
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      12-07-2012 12:10 PM #29
      ban catamarans?
      Demokratically Elekted Harbinger of Beetus & Confektionariy Devices of The Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
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      Quote Originally Posted by Eberger View Post
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    30. 12-07-2012 12:13 PM #30
      ban reefs

    31. 12-07-2012 12:45 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiffyGTI View Post
      ban reefs
      Ban What??

      Oh, you said "ban REEFS"

    32. Banned StormChaser's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 12:47 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      There's an old quote that goes, "If it flies, ****s, or floats, rent before you buy."

      Seriously, what kind of a ****ing moron with a tiny dick complex buys a 45-foot cat as their first boat? I'm about as landlocked as anybody who isn't a goddamned Bedouin, I know exactly dick about boating, but even I can plainly see that that's too much boat for too little skill.
      Yup, and you don't want to own a boat, you want friends that own boats.

      More info on this. Not the owners first boating experience, but first time owning. Apparently they have chartered cats in the BVIs several times, fell in love with it, and bought a boat of their own. Still seems like a lot of boat for not a lot of experience.

    33. Banned StormChaser's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 12:49 PM #33
      In this case it seems to me they should have had a watch forward and been moving at bare steerage (as slow as you can go without stalling the rudders and losing control) and this could have been avoided. With the clear waters of the BVIs and the good conditions seen in the pictures, the reef would have been visible from a distance more than enough to stop if they had been at a slower speed. This was a failure of the captain, plain and simple.

    34. Banned StormChaser's Avatar
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      12-07-2012 12:57 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by A.Wilder View Post
      Money for a boat but no money for a captain :-(
      There is no set rules on when one is "required", although when you get into larger boats there may be other things that come into play. For instance, some ports / area require a pilot aboard for boats as "small" as 100 to 125GT (gross tons, the Hatteras is 27NET, has nothing to do with weight, she weighs about 77,000 pounds) or 100', especially when foreign flagged.

      The only real limitation on size (besides $$$) is your insurance company who will require a captain if you jump more than 15 to 20' at a time, at least for a while. Even if I didn't have a merchant mariners license, I wouldn't have one for the Hatteras and she's is substantially larger than the Lagoon in question. It's prohibitively expensive for most to hire a captain (count on $1000 per foot of boat length per year for salary for one).

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      12-07-2012 01:07 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      You do? I don't. From what Stormie is saying this guy should have started with a sunfish. Money > Brains
      no, i'm saying there is no way in hell i would jump from a 16 foot hobie to a 45 foot blue water cat. i can drive a small one just fine, but you make a mistake on a big boat...ouch!
      Regarding DD'ing a tuned Evo:
      Quote Originally Posted by SchrickVR6 View Post
      It's composed at all speeds and at all times...it just feels like you're holding the leash on a 150lb pit bull and praying you don't see a squirrel.

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