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    Thread: 2015 GTI or 2013 Golf R

    1. 04-09-2013 03:01 PM #1
      Guys

      Just a quick question. If you had the money today, and both were out, would you get a 2013 Golf R or the 2015 GTI. Why?

    2. Member John Y's Avatar
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      04-09-2013 03:19 PM #2
      What I would do may not be what you'd do. Since I already own a Mk6 GTI, I wouldn't opt for another Mk6, here at the end of it's lifecycle, and after owning mine for 3.5 years. As nice as the R is. What would you be coming from?

    3. 04-09-2013 03:24 PM #3
      Brace yourself, but a 2007 Camry.

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      04-09-2013 10:12 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Yarzy View Post
      Brace yourself, but a 2007 Camry.
      In the end it is up to you.

      If you keep waiting for what is coming out next, you will never buy anything. Get the R. You will not look back I promise!
      "A car is just fast enough when you stand in front of it in the morning and are afraid to unlock it" Walter Rohrl

    5. Member John Y's Avatar
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      04-10-2013 04:52 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Yarzy View Post
      Brace yourself, but a 2007 Camry.


      Well, under those circumstances you certainly can't go wrong with either! Both may blow your mind...I'd probably say go with the R since it is here now, and the gap between a mk6 R and a mk7 GTI is not so large ad the quantum leap in driving experience you will have, going from your Camry to the R. Plus, it's not an apples to apples comparo since the R is a more powerful and technically accomplished car than the GTI - even the 7 - not being AWD. Consider, though, whether you need the AWD and want to pay the premium...the gti will surely be cheaper when it gets here.

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      04-10-2013 11:56 AM #6
      I'd probably choose the MK7 GTI if it was out. Updated interior & exterior, slightly cheaper, performance is close and comparably especially if tuned. But gas mileage would be the deciding factor for me, with the MK7 probably getting 31-33 real world combined (or better) where I'm getting 20-21 in my R driving conservatively.
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    7. Member John Y's Avatar
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      04-10-2013 01:15 PM #7
      My bad - I misunderstood your question and didn't note the assumption that both cars were out right now. If that were true, I'd opt for the GTI - assuming AWD not a necessity for you, as I said above. For me, the Mk7 GTI would feel like more of a progression from my current Mk6 GTI (obviously based on my assumptions about how the new one will drive) - the Mk6 R feels just like an "über-GTI" to me - not a knock on the R, at all - as I said when I did a write-up on my experience driving it last year, in many ways it seems like all the car I'd ever need. And there again, you wouldn't have that frame of reference when looking into either of them.

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      04-10-2013 01:29 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Jay07GLI View Post
      I'd probably choose the MK7 GTI if it was out. Updated interior & exterior, slightly cheaper, performance is close and comparably especially if tuned. But gas mileage would be the deciding factor for me, with the MK7 probably getting 31-33 real world combined (or better) where I'm getting 20-21 in my R driving conservatively.
      If you do the math...I garuntee that gas cost over a year is a lot less than you would believe.

      15,000 miles per year, 14.5 gallon tank, $4/gallon

      20mpg over a year driving 15,000 miles =$2992.80/year $168.20/month
      30mpg over a year driving 15,000 miles= $2018.40/year $249.40/month

      The difference is $81.20/month. I know people who spend more than that on lunches a month, or even one nice dinner with the woman.

      The AWD is going to be much better in poor weather, and something that will likely save you in situations where a FWD car may be in trouble.

      To me, I will never drive anything FWD again as a DD. RWD perhaps at the track.

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      04-10-2013 02:55 PM #9
      Don't get me wrong, I love my R, and in fact traded a 2010 GTI for it, no regrets. I'm just a sucker for the latest and greatest.

      It all comes down to whether you feel you need the AWD and how much you're willing to pay for it.
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      04-23-2013 06:37 PM #10
      2015 GTI. Hands down. Just read the reviews, especially Autocar and Car.

    11. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      04-23-2013 07:13 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Yarzy View Post
      Guys

      Just a quick question. If you had the money today, and both were out, would you get a 2013 Golf R or the 2015 GTI. Why?
      2015 GTI

      Bunch of little things that add up. To start, I only want 1 car, so I need an all-around daily driver with some performance vs a performance-oriented car that can handle daily duties (if htat makes sense)

      -Wife doesn't drive stick + SoCal traffic sucks = DSG is a 'must have'
      -Golf R AWD is AWESOME but "performance pack" GTI with VAQ/LSD is more than enough for my needs
      -Irrationally excited about the larger BUT LIGHTER MQB/mk7 platform
      -34 hwy mpg in the GTI vs 29? for Golf R
      -Taller 6th gear in the GTI is better for hwy cruising.
      -Save at least $5k vs. Golf R

    12. 04-23-2013 07:50 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by betterthansx View Post
      If you do the math...I garuntee that gas cost over a year is a lot less than you would believe.

      15,000 miles per year, 14.5 gallon tank, $4/gallon

      20mpg over a year driving 15,000 miles =$2992.80/year $168.20/month
      30mpg over a year driving 15,000 miles= $2018.40/year $249.40/month

      The difference is $81.20/month. I know people who spend more than that on lunches a month, or even one nice dinner with the woman.

      The AWD is going to be much better in poor weather, and something that will likely save you in situations where a FWD car may be in trouble.

      To me, I will never drive anything FWD again as a DD. RWD perhaps at the track.
      You do understand that the size of the gas tank doesn't influence the MPGs and therefore the annual cost of gasoline. Also, I am puzzled by your math...

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      04-23-2013 07:53 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      2015 GTI

      Bunch of little things that add up. To start, I only want 1 car, so I need an all-around daily driver with some performance vs a performance-oriented car that can handle daily duties (if htat makes sense)

      -Wife doesn't drive stick + SoCal traffic sucks = DSG is a 'must have'
      -Golf R AWD is AWESOME but "performance pack" GTI with VAQ/LSD is more than enough for my needs
      -Irrationally excited about the larger BUT LIGHTER MQB/mk7 platform
      -34 hwy mpg in the GTI vs 29? for Golf R
      -Taller 6th gear in the GTI is better for hwy cruising.
      -Save at least $5k vs. Golf R
      ^ This.

      Honestly the next Golf R will have to be pretty special because this next GTI sounds amazing.

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      04-24-2013 10:19 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by VW on the Mississippi View Post
      You do understand that the size of the gas tank doesn't influence the MPGs and therefore the annual cost of gasoline. Also, I am puzzled by your math...
      Agreed...

      20mpg 15k miles @ $4 gallon = $3000 ($2992.80??)
      30mpg 15k miles @ $4 gallon = $2000 ($2018.40??)

      At the end of 5 years of ownership, you will have spent at least $10,000 less on the GTI. $5k up front and $1k per year on gas assuming you drive 15k a year. The R will also depreciate more because it started out more expensive. That R badge and AWD worth $10-11k over 5 years?
      Last edited by Maxvla; 04-24-2013 at 10:23 PM.

    15. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      04-25-2013 03:52 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
      That R badge and AWD worth $10-11k over 5 years?
      To some people, yes, absolutely.

      If I could have 2 cars instead of 1, I would absolutely have a Golf R as "weekend car/light DD duties" (And it would be stage 2+ at least with HPA comp controller. hahah, and a new clutch shortly after I suppose )

      If I could tolerate having a manual, I would absolutely have one also.

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      04-25-2013 09:33 PM #16
      The numbers above are seriously off if comparing the current R to the GTI

      R 19/27 - 22 combined mpg
      GTI 21/31 - 25 combined

      Assuming 45% hwy, 55% city

      Annual cost R - $2650
      Annual cost GTI - $2350

      $300 X 5 years = $1500, not $5,000 extra on gas.


      http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....32587&id=32955

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      04-25-2013 09:51 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      2015 GTI

      Bunch of little things that add up. To start, I only want 1 car, so I need an all-around daily driver with some performance vs a performance-oriented car that can handle daily duties (if htat makes sense)

      -Wife doesn't drive stick + SoCal traffic sucks = DSG is a 'must have'
      -Golf R AWD is AWESOME but "performance pack" GTI with VAQ/LSD is more than enough for my needs
      -Irrationally excited about the larger BUT LIGHTER MQB/mk7 platform
      -34 hwy mpg in the GTI vs 29? for Golf R
      -Taller 6th gear in the GTI is better for hwy cruising.
      -Save at least $5k vs. Golf R
      This to the third. I will probably get a PP version for reason number 1. minus the SoCal
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      05-01-2013 10:52 AM #18
      I think that the R will VASTLY lose its appeal now that it's also available, at least in Europe, as an R-Line model. Why pay $10k extra for a true R model when your neighbor payed $1k extra for an R-Line look-alike?

      Worst.
      Decision.
      Ever.

      Suddenly VW wants to compete with the Corolla S trim and the like, at the expense of the model at the top of Golf hierarchy. It makes zero sense to have a fake sport trim look exactly like the highest trim real deal.
      24V VR6
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      n00b "Author"

    19. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      05-01-2013 01:44 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by mediumbluemetalic View Post
      I think that the R will VASTLY lose its appeal now that it's also available, at least in Europe, as an R-Line model. Why pay $10k extra for a true R model when your neighbor payed $1k extra for an R-Line look-alike?

      Worst.
      Decision.
      Ever.

      Suddenly VW wants to compete with the Corolla S trim and the like, at the expense of the model at the top of Golf hierarchy. It makes zero sense to have a fake sport trim look exactly like the highest trim real deal.
      If all you care about is the look then this applies. The up charge for the R also isn't $10k.

      With same reasoning you would never buy a Cayman S, a BMW 335, 911 S, ATS with the V-6, etc.

      I would also never want to hear the question "How is the R and it's AWD?" and have to explain that I only bought the R-Line, not the R.
      Last edited by dmorrow; 05-01-2013 at 01:51 PM.

    20. Member John Y's Avatar
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      05-01-2013 01:50 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by mediumbluemetalic View Post
      I think that the R will VASTLY lose its appeal now that it's also available, at least in Europe, as an R-Line model. Why pay $10k extra for a true R model when your neighbor payed $1k extra for an R-Line look-alike?

      Worst.
      Decision.
      Ever.

      Suddenly VW wants to compete with the Corolla S trim and the like, at the expense of the model at the top of Golf hierarchy. It makes zero sense to have a fake sport trim look exactly like the highest trim real deal.

      1. It's not a look alike - the R-Line is a mildly warmed over Golf in the looks department, the Golf R looks rather distinctive from the R-Line - the only people who won"t be able to tell them apart are them same who would struggle to tell a Golf from a GTI, from an R etc. - and to them, all that stuff is irrelevant anyway.

      2. It's not devaluing anything, in Europe, or anywhere. As I posted elsewhere, the R-Line was already available on the Golf chassis, and the Golf R still sold rather well here and elsewhere. The only people who seem confused by the whole thing are those who aren't close to VW and who had never heard of the R-Line.

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      05-03-2013 10:50 AM #21
      If you want to compare cost of ownership, try the Edmunds True Cost of Ownership info:

      GTI 5-Year Total: $47,317 (Fuel: $12,340)
      Golf R 5-Year Total: $54,447 (Fuel: $15,135)

      In this boat, I would absolutely not get a 2015 GTI. It's the first year of a new model built in a factory that hasn't made them before in a country known for less than great quality. At the very least, I would give it a year and get a 2016.

      Also, if you wait a year, as mentioned in other threads, the price of a Golf R is likely to fall.

      Personally, I would get a BMW 1-series before jumping into this mess, but that model is also in flux with a new one arriving soon.

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      05-03-2013 12:57 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by blackdiamond View Post
      In this boat, I would absolutely not get a 2015 GTI. It's the first year of a new model built in a factory that hasn't made them before in a country known for less than great quality. At the very least, I would give it a year and get a 2016.

      Also, if you wait a year, as mentioned in other threads, the price of a Golf R is likely to fall.
      It will be the 2nd year of a new model built in a factory that has been building VW's for many years with no proof of lower quality than any other VW plant. 1st year they will build it but not the first year it will be built.

      When you say the R price is likely to fall, you mean because it will be used or are you hoping they will still be sitting on the lots a year from now?

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      05-03-2013 01:30 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by dmorrow View Post
      It will be the 2nd year of a new model built in a factory that has been building VW's for many years with no proof of lower quality than any other VW plant. 1st year they will build it but not the first year it will be built.

      When you say the R price is likely to fall, you mean because it will be used or are you hoping they will still be sitting on the lots a year from now?
      The German built VWs have a higher quality rating, including a Consumer Report recommendation that you guy a used Golf, but not a used Jetta. It doesn't mean the Mexico built ones are bad, probably just not as good (although other threads say they're bad). I had two Jetta III's, built in Mexico, and found them to be reliable.

      I'm just parroting what others are saying about the R's in a year, mostly because, yes, they're likely to still be sitting on lots.

      In another year, if you want a front wheel drive hot hatch, there's going to be a lot of competition between VW, Audi, BMW and Mercedes.

    24. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      05-03-2013 02:41 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by blackdiamond View Post
      If you want to compare cost of ownership, try the Edmunds True Cost of Ownership info:

      GTI 5-Year Total: $47,317 (Fuel: $12,340)
      Golf R 5-Year Total: $54,447 (Fuel: $15,135)

      In this boat, I would absolutely not get a 2015 GTI. It's the first year of a new model built in a factory that hasn't made them before in a country known for less than great quality. At the very least, I would give it a year and get a 2016.
      The comparison in this thread is for the future 2015 GTI which is reported to be 18% more fuel efficient.

      So the more appropriate comparison might be:
      2015 GTI: $12,340 * 0.82 = $10,119
      2013 R: $15,135

      Savings from 2015 GTI = $5,016

      This additional PREDICTED savings may or may not change your position.

      The point about this being a 1st year model* in a plant that doesn't not have the optimal reputation or record is well taken.

      *in many ways a 1st year model, if not in ALL ways.

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      05-03-2013 02:53 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      The comparison in this thread is for the future 2015 GTI which is reported to be 18% more fuel efficient.

      So the more appropriate comparison might be:
      2015 GTI: $12,340 * 0.82 = $10,119
      2013 R: $15,135

      Savings from 2015 GTI = $5,016
      Good point. In fact, that extra savings might even cover an extended warranty, if first year cars make your nervous.

    26. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      05-03-2013 03:01 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by blackdiamond View Post
      Good point. In fact, that extra savings might even cover an extended warranty, if first year cars make your nervous.
      The data doesn't lie, and therefore 1st year cars absolutely make me nervous (because they are still identifying the random gremlins)

      I am less nervous because in some ways this is NOT a 1st year car for the US. The ROW mk7 golf will be more than 1.5 years old and the ROW GTI will be 1 year old. This will hopefully provide significant insight into the minor tweaks that can go into the US versions. Obviously this will only help for initial quality, and issues that surface 2-4 years down the road will still hit us the same or even worse as the ROW verisions.

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      05-03-2013 06:24 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by parklane View Post
      Just read the reviews, especially Autocar and Car.
      Because that's what makes me want a car.
      I love that the MK7 GTI doesn't have an 8" screen.

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      05-05-2013 07:47 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      The comparison in this thread is for the future 2015 GTI which is reported to be 18% more fuel efficient.

      So the more appropriate comparison might be:
      2015 GTI: $12,340 * 0.82 = $10,119
      2013 R: $15,135

      Savings from 2015 GTI = $5,016

      This additional PREDICTED savings may or may not change your position.

      The point about this being a 1st year model* in a plant that doesn't not have the optimal reputation or record is well taken.

      *in many ways a 1st year model, if not in ALL ways.
      You want to talk $$$$$$ ? Wait until you try to sell the GTI vs the R.

    29. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      05-06-2013 02:04 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by bmwgtiman View Post
      You want to talk $$$$$$ ? Wait until you try to sell the GTI vs the R.
      I don't understand your point.

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      05-06-2013 02:49 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      I don't understand your point.
      I think he's saying the R will hold its value better than the GTI.

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      05-06-2013 02:53 PM #31
      easy, mk7 gti.

    32. Member Waterfan's Avatar
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      05-06-2013 04:26 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by DaLeadBull View Post
      I think he's saying the R will hold its value better than the GTI.
      Fair enough.

      In this case, offset the predicted additional GTI fuel savings against the additional incremental residual value of the R (assuming Golf R does hold value better than GTI).

      Don't have time to do the research or math, but if someone else wants to...

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      05-06-2013 07:50 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Waterfan View Post
      Fair enough.

      In this case, offset the predicted additional GTI fuel savings against the additional incremental residual value of the R (assuming Golf R does hold value better than GTI).

      Don't have time to do the research or math, but if someone else wants to...
      Can I throw in the cost of cam followers and timing belt replacement?

      I don't think the current Golf R will have quite the nice resale value of the MK4.

      Heck the MK5 R32 is starting to slide as a % of MSRP.

    34. 05-08-2013 01:50 PM #34
      Same question as OP but as a weekend fun times/ track car?

      In 2-3 years they will be within a couple grad of each other (CPO '13 R vs Base Mk7 w/performance pack).

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      05-08-2013 02:38 PM #35
      mk7 with performance pack will be much more fun and easier to tune and cheaper to replace parts than the r32. theory, because the r32 being a rare and more high end golf, parts will be more expensive and harder to come by. awd is nice but by the sounds of it, the new diff in the golf is out of this world impressive.

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