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    Thread: 16v FAQ: if you are new to the 16v forum, this is the thread for you

    1. 11-28-2002 12:08 PM #1
      With the return of the search function, and in an effort to create a resource for the most commonly asked questions in the 16v forum, this thread is meant to provide a quick reference to those that are new 16v owners or are not familiar with the 16v engine.

      Please add appropriate material to this thread; the things that are repeated will be deleted unless the general concensus is that they are more complete than the one that they come after. Please treat this as a working, breathing, living document and is meant to serve as a resource for commonly asked questions. This thread is not for personal bickering, and any posts that do not add relevant information to this thread will be deleted immediately and without explination.

      I know most of you have something to add here, so get to work



    2. 11-28-2002 12:19 PM #2
      for 020 transmission information check out http://cars.vwsport.com/gears/index.html

      it has gear ratios (1-5 and ring and pinion), information on SMS (self machining syndrome), speed / RPM calculator, excel spreadsheet download to calculate speeds (thanks Ron P), speedometer gear information and part numbers, and lots of other useful information.


    3. Member austin neuschafer's Avatar
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      11-28-2002 01:52 PM #3
      a post about the ABF 16v motor, used in the A3 cars in europe w/pics and links http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=424868
      and some peoples experience and info on how to run the dual exhaust cam setup http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=365948
      cheap alternative to the $100+ oxygen sensor for about $40 http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=877406

      premaid crank trigger wheel for all(older) vws with a external harmonic balancer www.eurospeed.ca prices shown are in canadian $ they also make 16v fuel rails.

      transmission rebuilds are available from HGB on here he is well known and respected in the business

      ce2 swap into a A1 car http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=610111

      actual cuttaway view (not computer generated) of a 2.0 (9A) head ports http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1141959

      what water outlet to use for the clip in style sensors??? P# 068 121 145Q pics and 2 posts about this http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...44950 http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2008943

      I highly recommend using anti seize lubricant went reinstalling water pump housing bolts, cv - hub splines, oxygen sensor threads, exhaust studs. these parts are very prone to corrosion due to either exposure to corrosive chemicals or excessive heat. I speak from experience




      Last edited by austin neuschafer; 10-02-2010 at 01:16 AM.
      87 rocco 2l16v MS3 02a/j with 4.24 on LSD. 91 rado geting 1.8t, 02 cabrio geting vr6, 04 r32 vf stg 2 sc, and a few other goodies

    4. 11-28-2002 02:38 PM #4
      http://www.scirocco16v.com has good tech info and a lot of dyno scans. It is 16volt's site.
      Thanks Shannon and keep it up!

    5. 11-28-2002 02:41 PM #5
      this is what removing the AC on a 2.0L 16v looks like. Notice the cut bracket, the alternator mounted where the A/C was, the 8v alternator pulley and the A/C belt used to drive the alternator.



    6. 11-28-2002 02:44 PM #6
      A flywheel can safely be lightened to 8lbs.




    7. 11-28-2002 02:51 PM #7
      Between a 1.8L and a 2.0L head, the best one is the one that is in the best condtion. If both are perfect condition, check again, one of them has to have some kind of default. In doubt, let the person who will rebuild and port it choose for you. If he does not know which to choose, find another machinist.
      If you plan on not doing a port and polish, re-consider. The head is out of the car, so you might as well quit smoking for a few weeks and spend the 500$ on a p&p.

    8. 11-28-2002 03:46 PM #8

    9. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      11-29-2002 01:04 AM #9
      id like to add that when you first buy your 16v, be sure to change the timing belt regardless of when the previous owner says it was changed, it also doesnt hurt to change it once every year or year and half (depending on how much driving you do)

    10. 11-29-2002 01:58 AM #10

    11. 11-29-2002 02:35 AM #11
      for the new comers...

      the 16v engine came in 2 forms... 1.8L and 2.0L

      the 1.8L 16v (code name PL) made 123hp stock, ran off CIS-e injection, and was introduced in late 86 Scirrocos and eventually found its way into the GLI and GTIs in 1987 to 1989. The bore and stroke are smaller than the 2.0L which enables it to rev to a stock 7200 RPM redline. The head on the 1.8L 16v has larger intake ports but smaller exhaust ports compared to a 2.0 16v head.

      the 2.0 16v (code name 9A) made 134hp stock, ran off Motronic injection, and was introduced in early 90 in GLIs and in late 90/91 in GTIs up to 1992. They were also available in B3 Passats. The bore and stroke are larger than the 1.8L which means it could not rev as high from the factory (approx 6800 RPM) but it has better low end torque due to it's larger stroke and smaller intake ports but larger exhaust ports.

      the only 16v engine that can be chipped is the 2.0 16v because it runs off Motronic injection...

      http://www.Neuspeed.com
      http://www.Autotech.com
      http://www.GiacUsa.com
      http://www.TTTuning.com
      http://www.AdvancedMotorsport.com

      all make chips for the 2.0 16v that greatly increase mid to top end power as well as raising the redline to 7000+ rpm.

      1.8L 16v engines CANNOT be chipped! ...howeverm an option for the 1.8L 16v is the Autotech or TT fuel enrichment module which works similar to a chip by increasing the amount of fuel delivered at high RPM where the stock fuel map tends to lean out.

      Whatever engine you choose, note that the 16v is an interference engine meaning that the piston and valve travel "overlap" which means that if you break your timing belt, there is a good chance that the valves and pistons will collide damaging your engine and valve train. You can prevent all this by properly changing the timing belt if it has not been changed in a while...a small price to pay for protection! The belt should be changed in 40-45K intervals ...


      [Modified by Ted, 11:39 PM 11-28-2002]


    12. Member damion16v's Avatar
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      11-29-2002 07:58 AM #12
      Before modifying the car, make sure that the engine and all it's components (like the timing belt mentioned above) are working properly. If a part looks sketchy, replace it.
      Quote Originally Posted by Rub-ISH View Post
      I am now sucessfully motivated to get TED KENEDY levels of Sh!thoused and antagonize the antagonists...kudos

    13. 11-29-2002 11:55 AM #13
      IDLE OR BUCKING PROBLEMS ON 16V CARS:

      If your motronic 2.0 16V car starts to idle funny, first thing you should do is go to the dealership, and make sure all the recalls have been fixed. Some cars did have recalls on computer wiring harnesses. Next, It seems that corrosion at the electrical connectors around the engine are to blame for the majority of these idling problems. Go to a good electronics store/warehouse, and get a can of Deoxit contact enhancer spray. It's about $14. Spray the inside of every electrical connector under the hood. The most important ones are the ones around the fuel distributor, one next to the firewall (potentiometer), one on the engine side (differential pressure regulator), and two under the intake boot (emmissions related).

      Things that cause erratic idling on all CIS-E or Motronic 16Vs are:

      1. the A/C hoses that run along the passenger side fender, next to the fuel distributor. There is an electrical connector on the side of the fuel distributor and the A/C hoses usually end up resting on it. This is not good. Get zip ties and zip tie the hoses so they do not rest on this connector.
      2. Check for a small tear underneath the intake boot. Remove it completely to inspect it. This is a very common occurence. Any sort of vacuum leak can cause idling problems.
      3. A failing fuel pre-pump. They're $60 bucks and take 20 minutes to replace.
      4. A bad idle switch. The idle switch is located on the throttle body, and will cause idling problems if it doesn't engage and/or if it fails.
      5. A bad oxygen sensor.

      '07 Cayman S & '03 20AE BMP #226 w/Autotech downpipe, Koni Sports, 28mm RSB, ES dogbone bushings, Sparco heel/toe pedal
      Previous Rides: '04 R32 - '03 20AE - '91 GTI 16V - '84 GTI

    14. 11-29-2002 12:46 PM #14
      ah yes, timing the 16v.

      timing belt and tensioner should be replaced every 60,000kms (as per VW), but it's your choice when / if you replace it. Why roll the dice?

      anyway, here are some picture of the timing marks on a 16v. the transaxle / Flywheel mark is accesable under a plastic green screw on cap (no pictures of it - sorry), but it is on the driver side - where the transaxle mates to the engine. It's on top. you can't miss it.

      The cam marks are on the inside (drivers side) of the pulley.

      The crank pulley marks are on the crank (obviously) - but these line up to the plastic lower timing belt cover - and is not that accurate. the crank pulley and flywheel sping at the same rate, so use the flywheel mark.

      The dot on the flywheel is 0° and the notch is factory timing.

      ok, now for the pictures....

      crank marks (line up with "V" notch on transaxle housing)

      Another shot of the whole flywheel

      Cam timing mark

      Another cam mark

      And the distributor (plug wires info and rotation)

      that's it for now...




      Modified by rockin16v at 8:55 AM 12-2-2003


    15. 11-29-2002 01:33 PM #15
      quote:
      wow ! im gona make sure i get a 1.8L 16v head if i go 16v

      don't jump on that just yet ... the 1.8L 16v head may have higher flowing intake ports but it's exhaust ports don't flow as high as a 2.0 16v head. The head you use depends on the engine you are building. This is why the 2.0 16v makes more torque down low due to its smaller intake ports but larger exhaust ports. If you chose to port and polish the 16v head, then either head will work well but the myth that swapping on a 1.8L 16v head to a 2.0 block is the best may not really be beneficial ... I will return later to post more detailed information on this topic...


      also the advertised compression ratio for the 16v engines is as follows:

      1.8L 16v = 10:1 CR

      2.0L 16v = 10.8:1 CR


      [Modified by Ted, 10:36 AM 11-29-2002]


    16. 11-29-2002 01:40 PM #16
      Viewing from the front of the engine, the Scirocco 16v engine has the throttle body on the right side of the intake manifold ... all other 16v engines (both 1.8 and 2.0) have the throttle on the left side of the intake manifold ...

      If you are planning to add a turbo to your GLI or GTI 16v engine, you will need to swap in a Scirocco 16v manifold/throttle body to have the throttle on the right side. If you are going to turbo a Scirocco 16v, you do not need to do this because you already have the correct manifold.


    17. Senior Member IronTrap's Avatar
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      11-29-2002 01:40 PM #17
      If you are even thinking about swapping to Digi. 1 for your 16v... read the following post.... you have pretty much all of your questions and help you need there!!!


      p.s.: get a bentley... it will cover most of what is being covered in this post...

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=537957


      [Modified by littledevil34, 1:41 PM 11-29-2002]


    18. Member 12 Inch Club's Avatar
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      11-30-2002 12:03 AM #18
      In the Scirocco the engine sits on 4 mounts since it's got a Mk1 chassis. In all other cars it's on 3 mounts.
      Can someone post the DIY full conversion of a 16V into any MK2, please.

    19. 11-30-2002 03:22 AM #19
      what mouts do i need for a 2.0L 16v block to fit in a mk1 ?

      I thought i bolted rigt up .


    20. 11-30-2002 04:26 AM #20
      Another possible reason your 16V may be idleing badly - or sounds like it runs on 3 cylinders on startup may be casued by a leaking Distributor. They ALL will leak eventually - and oil can leak into the Distributor cap...causing a misfire.....unhook your distributor cap and look inside - you will know if you have oil in there.....and you can usually see the oil leak down the side of the motor under the distributor cap......new distributors are running about $175 these days with a new cap and rotor - places like http://www.germanautoparts.com has them.

      If you idle is not constant - and the revs bounce - it's probably your Idle stabilizer valve (ISV as people call it here) - kind of a small can looking thing with an electrical connection on it on the right side of the motor - they go bad as well - and can cause the car to stall.....replacement takes only a few minutes...

      16V'S like to run hot - a normal oil operating temperature for 16V is betwwen 190-230 Degrees Farenheight (as seen on the multifunction display) if you temp goes higher than that - a new low temp thermostat and low temp fan switch are good idea's......the water temp should never go much past 1/2 way to 3/4's on the guage - in hot climates it will run at 1/2 to 3/4's - but in cooler climates and when running on the highway it should stay at like a 1/4 on the temp guage......

      more to come later....

      Dan

      Am I OG status yet? Close to 40 years old and still driving a slammed and Boosted 'Dub...cool or sad?

    21. 11-30-2002 06:42 PM #21
      Another thing to note is to not worry if the 16v you are buying has over 100,000 miles on it AS LONG AS IT'S BEEN TAKEN CARE OF! Make sure the previous owner has kept records of everything that has been done.

      The 16v engines are built so tightly from the factory that it doesn't FULLY break in until around 80K - 100K miles ... technically the engine should gain more power as the mileage increases ...

      these engines are well built and with proper care, you should be able to get at least 180K to 200K out of them before any big repairs are needed.


    22. Member
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      12-01-2002 12:02 AM #22
      dist seal part # for the cheepo fix for the oil in the dist cap http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=93065

    23. 12-02-2002 04:49 PM #23
      differences between the 1.8L and 2L (other than bore and stroke)

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=608018


    24. Member nickinboston's Avatar
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      12-04-2002 09:13 AM #24

    25. Moderator 83Caddy16v's Avatar
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      12-06-2002 10:46 PM #25
      To make your TT fuel enrichment module adjustable - replace the resistor with a potentiometer mounted in the engine compartment or in the dash.





      [Modified by 83caddy16v, 7:15 PM 12-8-2002]

      chris@swedespeed.com
      2012 XC90 R-Design | Ice White | 20" Cratus wheels | RSE
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    26. 12-10-2002 12:20 AM #26
      Mostly maintence advice:
      Before you mess with the idle, timing, CO mixture, make sure or try:

      Your injector o-rings/shrouds are good, you can tell by spraying some carb cleaner around the base and if theres a vaccum leak the idle will fluxuate briefly. Or if you grab the injector line and wiggle it, good o rings will be firm, bad ones will wiggle.

      Follow all vaccum lines to their end make sure theres no leaks.

      Your broken dip stick funnel is a vaccum leak.

      Go thruogh all eletrical connections spray them with Wurth Contact OL, its a contact cleaner/enhancer.

      Clean your grounds with some emery cloth, and put dieletric grease on them.

      Make sure your Tune up stuff has been done within the last ~30,000 Miles Bosch plugs, fuel filter, decent wires oem bosch are the best IMO, Mann air filters are good, or make sure you clean your K&N when its full of crap.
      Some dieletric grease around the plug wire boots makes a better contact and lets you take them off easily. o2 sensor should be done every~ 60,000 miles.

      Most 16Vs run noticably better with a good grade of Gasoline.

      A bottle of fuel system cleaner ie Techron, by Chevron will do wonders for dirty injectors, and excessive carbon build up.

      Get a Bently Manual


    27. Member
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      12-10-2002 11:13 PM #27
      quote:
      Go thruogh all eletrical connections spray them with Wurth Contact OL, its a contact cleaner/enhancer.

      I prefer Deoxit

      quote:
      A bottle of fuel system cleaner ie Techron, by Chevron will do wonders for dirty injectors, and excessive carbon build up.

      Techron works well as a maintenance treatment, but Redline's SI-1 works better to get rid of a heavy buildup.

      --------------------
      John

      I'd stop drinking beer, but I'm no quitter.

    28. Member damion16v's Avatar
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      12-20-2002 01:53 AM #28
      Just a suggestion, but can anyone post the common ( and uncommon) bolt sizes on the engine? I ran into this snag as a newbie.
      Quote Originally Posted by Rub-ISH View Post
      I am now sucessfully motivated to get TED KENEDY levels of Sh!thoused and antagonize the antagonists...kudos

    29. 12-23-2002 12:41 AM #29
      Your better off just buying a complete set like 8mm to 22mm wrenches and 30mm socket

    30. Member
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      01-02-2003 01:19 PM #30
      16V head "spotters guide" - some shots comparing external features of 9A and PL 16V heads, to help you in junkyarding or if buying a loose head.
      http://w3.one.net/~rapieper/16Vheadcompare/

      HTH

      Ron


    31. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      01-02-2003 01:39 PM #31
      Very nice Ron!!
      -Josh
      06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 Gti 24v VR6 | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick
      01 ZRX1200

    32. 01-04-2003 08:50 AM #32
      In answer to: please post pics and explanation of sensors on 16v head

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=634038


    33. Member
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      01-15-2003 09:28 AM #33
      FIRING ORDER ON 16V: 1 - 3 - 4 - 2 COUNTERCLOCKWISE rotation


      Unlike all the 8v motors, where the distributor turns clockwise, the 16v is opposite, counterclockwise.


    34. 02-01-2003 03:35 AM #34
      This is further information on rebuilding the 16v distributor that I didn't see anywhere else before diving into mine.

      -----------------------------------

      Just wanted to keep this one alive, especially with people talking about no new 16v dist. available.

      I recently got my distributor back together with the new seal and thought I'd share a couple of things from my experience.

      First off, the volvo seal I had that I thought would work didn't. The O.D. on that seal was too big. I was however able to find an appropriately sized replacement seal from a local transmission shop (correct o.d. and i.d.). I believe the shop said the seal was from a GM manual transmission, from the gear selector input (or whatever you want to call it). I however decided to go with the Chicago Rawhide seal as the GM seal was not spring loaded (ie no spring on the inside of the seal, ya know like on the mainshaft seals.), and the C.R. seal is "proven technology."

      To get to the seal, the washer on the hall sender side of the dist. needs to be removed, but be careful! What people had failed to tell me was that the washer is knurled, and after the washer is installed in the distributor at the factory, the metal lip (part of the distributor body) overhanging the edge of the washer is then slightly pressed in. This explains why it was so stinking hard to get the washer out. I also wound up breaking part of the metal surround that was crushed in, but because of the knurling, and the amount of the rim/surround left the washer would still seat when all was said and done. Also considered not a problem due to the minimal amount of axial end-play allowed through construction (ie able to pull the rotor shaft away from and push back to the engine).

      The other thing I encountered was that the chuck that engages in the head of the engine is offcenter/directional. As such, it can only be installed one way (unless you want to time your distributor 180 degrees off from normal). The tab coming off the dist drive chuck needs to be on the top side of the chuck when reinstalled, with the distributor rotor referenced to tdc.

      I haven't ran the car yet, so don't know how well the reseal worked, but I'll find out soon engough.

      If I find this successful after a bit of driving, I might be willing to rebuild distributors for people (for a fee of course !).

      HTH.

      Derek P


    35. 02-02-2003 05:54 PM #35
      quote:
      Viewing from the front of the engine, the Scirocco 16v engine has the throttle body on the right side of the intake manifold ...

      My 1.8 8v CIS is setup the same way, do you know if the throttle body will match up? I wanna swap heads (and intake manifold) but only if I can keep the plain-jane CIS system. Can it be done??


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