Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Results 1 to 34 of 34

    Thread: Shooting Drills

    1. 06-18-2013 08:44 PM #1
      A buddy and I were out at another friends farm the other day and we decided it might be fun to run some "drills". Basically we set up some silhouette targets periodically throughout the field and used barrels for cover. I had a lot of fun just running/taking cover/shooting for 30-45 minutes but now that I'm interested in getting more into it, I'd like to learn some more about it. Can anyone recommend drills or videos of drills?

      I appreciate any info offered. I would really like to learn more about tactics and maneuvers.

    2. 06-18-2013 10:15 PM #2
      I don't no where in VA you're located, but give these guys a call.
      https://www.virginia-tactical.com/in...d=49&Itemid=29
      This post was monitored and approved by the NSA

    3. 06-19-2013 07:41 AM #3
      That's not too far. It's about an hour drive for me.

    4. 06-19-2013 12:01 PM #4
      It's good stuff isn't it? Also 10x more important to realize how bad of a shooter you are when you're not standing still, in a perfect stance, shooting slow and steady etc. You looking for classes, or just drills?

      A drill can be made more difficult by something as simple as running 50-100 yards and then beginning a drill.

      There are weapon-malfunction/unknown drills, modified IPSC/USPSA style stuff...you can even make simple, cheap CQB drills using posts and tarps. What are you most interested in?

    5. Member GreenandChrome's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 24th, 2002
      Location
      Washington State
      Posts
      6,523
      Vehicles
      Sportage
      06-19-2013 04:10 PM #5
      this should keep you occupied. not drills, per se, but the 16 stages of the 2012 IDPA.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8iq9LTlPw4
      Colonel Leopold Wraithwood //// twitter: mbull //// blog //// "Marcel Bruwn" - Travoltified
      Stop making things idiot-proof. We're just making better idiots. Not the way we need to be going.

    6. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 3rd, 2013
      Location
      Lynnwood, WA
      Posts
      127
      Vehicles
      2011 VW Tiguan SEL
      06-19-2013 04:22 PM #6
      Here's a good drill with some tips from Jerry Miculek

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuNSB9jkpyQ
      Josh H - Lynnwood, WA
      Current Vehicle: 2011 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion
      Past Vehicles: 2003 Tahoe Z71, 2003 Audi A6 2.7T,
      2001 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 (the one I will always wish I kept)

    7. 06-19-2013 05:02 PM #7
      Also before you start running a lot of drills, it's worth asking what you're looking to get out of it. There is a huge difference between competition shooting, and defensive shooting with realistic firearms. Which aspect do you like?

      Do you want a high-speed gun with a special trigger job, low-power handloaded ammo, shooting static targets as fast as you can...or do you want to run a normal handgun in a realistic defensive scenario? Two entirely different worlds. While basic marksmanship fundamentals and mechanics are gained from both, they're really setting you up for different things.

      I normally try to practice what I suck at...I want failures, I want to shoot off-hand...I do all kinds of stuff that makes me feel like a complete idiot.

    8. 06-19-2013 05:07 PM #8
      Definitely defensive shooting in realistic defensive scenarios.
      So far all I've done is rifle but I'd like to practice with both rifle and pistol (currently looking for a Beretta 92fs for a decent price)

      Right now I'd just like some drills. Classes cost money I don't have (kids are expensive)
      We're going again this Sunday and I've drawn up a couple routes and scenarios I want to try.

      I've even constructed a couple wooden windows out of some scrap plywood and remnants of 2x4's I had laying around. I cut out some BG's from some cardboard at work to place in the windows/behind barrels
      Last edited by foxtrot762; 06-19-2013 at 05:14 PM.

    9. 06-19-2013 05:36 PM #9
      If you're interested I can regurgitate the "Elbows training on the cheap" process...I'm assuming you shoot with one or more people?

    10. 06-19-2013 06:07 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      If you're interested I can regurgitate the "Elbows training on the cheap" process...I'm assuming you shoot with one or more people?
      Just two for now. Myself and a friend and yes, I'd be interested.

    11. 06-19-2013 06:23 PM #11
      Here is a very very simple...albeit incredibly useful system of drills.

      REQUIREMENTS:

      1) 4 or more reasonable targets (for close range etc. I suggest cardboard targets)
      2) Two or more shooters
      3) One handgun with at least 6 round capacity

      TARGETS: My targets are constructed from simple PVC pipe with folding legs, and then small strips of wood to which I attach cardboard targets - using large binder clips (available for cheap in big boxes at Office Max - they're strong, and you won't panic if you shoot some...and no tape needed!)

      This is a very heavily modified adaptation of the El Presidente drill.

      Shooter begins with eyes and ears in place, facing away from the shooting direction, pistol holstered. Electronic hearing protection should be turned off, and eyes kept away from the shooting direction (don't look down range!) so that the shooter can not see nor hear anything which will give him an unfair advantage.

      The other shooter(s) place four targets in any method they choose...at any range they choose. One target is marked with a small indicator (in my case a circle and star). This is the "victim" target and must not be shot. The other targets represent the "baddies".

      Once complete, and the down range area is clear...the shooter will be given a signal to turn and engage all three "baddies" with at least two rounds.

      BENEFITS:
      -Unlike some static, repeated drills, this is a very simple drill which can be altered every single time you run it. The shooter can face dozens of different scenarios in the course of one afternoon.

      -The shooter must turn, draw his weapon and then problem solve prior to shooting. He must be able to identify the victim and then engage the hostile targets. This helps work on the fundamentals of identifying your target before shooting.

      -Using cardboard targets also means that bullets will zip straight through and strike other targets. This means the shooter must be aware of the background of his shots, and position himself in locations where he can get a clean, safe shot with no risk to the victim.

      -While we normally run the drill with 2 shots on each hostile, this means we save ammo. However, sometimes we run the drill with a required "stop" on each hostile. This means we must land enough shots that we're confident the target would be stopped. So if you sling two shots which just wing a hostile's shoulder, you continue to engage until you believe you've incapacitated the target hostile.

      -Alternatively you can even use hidden scoring on targets. I've only run this once and it was interesting as each target had different values (every person is built differently) We decided on a set "score" which would incapacitate a hostile. So this meant you'd end up putting 4-5 rounds in each target to really verify you'd stop them.

      -You can easily incorporate this same drill into the use of cover. Barricades or other cover could expand the drill. Likewise you could adapt the use of a rifle or carbine etc, and extend the range of the drill. Occasionally we'll screw with someone and place all of the targets about 30-40 yards away. This means the shooter turns, and then has to run and "chase" the hostiles until he is within comfortable shooting distance. There are limitless possibilities to adapt the drill.

      All in all, very simple, very effective, and fun (who doesn't like f_cking with your buddies?). Pictures show some examples of what you'd turn around and see when you start your drill.


      The "Victim" target often has a small identifier.


      Upon turning around the shooter may only see one target...


      A quick glance behind the target reveals hostiles dragging the victim away...center mass shots to the initial target may well have struck the victim behind him.


      Some target hostiles may have "body armour" painted on...so shots in this region do not count.


      An example of the blind scoring method...


      It is very important for the shooter to verify where his rounds are going...shooting too fast or recklessly will result in striking the victim (an automatic failure for the drill)


      Sometimes you turn around and find an absolute freakin' mess...You have to figure it out and establish how to place your shots without striking the victim...

      Very cheap, simple, fun, and most importantly - won't get you into a zone of constantly repeating the same drills.

    12. 06-19-2013 07:44 PM #12
      That is excellent. Thanks a lot!

    13. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 3rd, 2013
      Location
      Lynnwood, WA
      Posts
      127
      Vehicles
      2011 VW Tiguan SEL
      06-19-2013 09:16 PM #13
      When I'm doing drills, especially for failures, I'll throw some snap caps randomly in various magazines at different fill points or have friends load them so I don't know where they are. Some of the steel matches I go to, some of which are not full steel challenge matches more "fun steel" will throw in some stages that have no shoot targets within close proximity to the shoot and you get penalized if you hit the no shoots. Much like IDPA/USPSA. Definitely tends to slow you down if you're not used to having to distinguish. It's helped me out immensely just going to those types of matches, enough that I bought a 1911-22 to focus on fundamentals with and a 15-22 to use in the rimfire carbine classes to get in some cheap extra "handling" time with an AR platform.
      Josh H - Lynnwood, WA
      Current Vehicle: 2011 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion
      Past Vehicles: 2003 Tahoe Z71, 2003 Audi A6 2.7T,
      2001 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 (the one I will always wish I kept)

    14. 06-19-2013 09:38 PM #14
      Snap caps are great...as are "unknown weapon status" drills. Run up to a table, pick up your firearm which your friends have prepped (maybe loaded, maybe not, maybe stuck with a double feed intentionally, maybe not...maybe on safety, maybe not etc.). It forces you to immediately determine the status of your weapon, and get it up and running.

      Same can be done with rifles, shotguns etc.


    15. 07-03-2013 01:51 PM #15
      I saw your Navy Qual. video and decided they looked fun so I went out to the farm for about an hour this morning and practiced those at about 75 yards.

      Standing
      5 shots
      mag change

      Drop to knee
      5 shots
      mag change

      prone
      5 shots


    16. 07-03-2013 03:56 PM #16
      Yeah, the modified Navy is a good "diagnostic" drill. Not too crazy, but we do a couple each time we go shooting, just to try to keep the finger on the pulse of where we stand. After 6 months of no shooting my last time was...not so good.



      I believe a proper Navy qual is at 50 yards on an 8" or so section, with the goal of 25 seconds (though lots of high speed guys run them in 13-15 seconds...) My only perfect at the modified 90 yard was 27 seconds.

    17. Member SuperStar's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 12th, 2001
      Location
      Seattle
      Posts
      3,257
      Vehicles
      12 Lexus CT 200h, 07 Chevy Avalanche LTZ
      07-03-2013 05:23 PM #17
      Figure 8 drill is a good one for defensive shooting


    18. 07-03-2013 08:06 PM #18
      That's a good lookin' drill.

      Another thing I really really recommend (and yet don't get to do too often...) is to run drills in less than perfect conditions. It's important to know what changes when you are shooting in the rain, at night etc. You may not notice flash/smoke from your carbine or handgun during the day but at night, with a weapon light it becomes a huge visual factor.

      When we do night drills, my buddy and I will yell at each other and flicker strobe flash lights behind each other and generally be huge dicks to distract each other as much as possible. If you're a police officer or leo, buy a cheap flashing red/blue or even orange light - something you can run off of batteries. Get something which is good at simulating your lightbar when you've pulled someone over.

      The flashing blue and reds can really be distracting when shooting at night. Of course this is all stuff for defensive/reality based shooting. I try to do a mix of fundamentals and reality/defensive stuff. I've been doing hardly any of this lately since I can't afford to shoot my damn ammo...

      Likewise, work the off-hand. This is something I try to do as much as possible. I am not nearly proficient with my offhand, but it will really REALLY show you how bad you are...

    19. 07-04-2013 06:54 AM #19
      Adverse conditions huh?

      Yesterday I had sweat running down into my eyes and a major case of swampass....how's that for "less than perfect"

    20. 07-04-2013 12:24 PM #20
      Hey, I live in Charleston buddy..you don't gotta tell me about swamp ass...

    21. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 3rd, 2013
      Location
      Lynnwood, WA
      Posts
      127
      Vehicles
      2011 VW Tiguan SEL
      07-05-2013 12:02 PM #21
      As far as the adverse daytime conditions I handle that with our steel matches. They're outdoor and up here in Seattle we run them rain, snow, or sun. In fact I was so used to the colder wetter weather this last weekend when it was 90 out I was feeling a lot more fatigued by the last couple stages and it was apparent that my shots were suffering because of it.
      Josh H - Lynnwood, WA
      Current Vehicle: 2011 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion
      Past Vehicles: 2003 Tahoe Z71, 2003 Audi A6 2.7T,
      2001 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 (the one I will always wish I kept)

    22. 07-05-2013 01:51 PM #22
      Man I've got to get a good pistol to train with. All I have is a rifle and I'm itching to practice with a handgun...I suck at pistols.

    23. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 20th, 2000
      Location
      League City, Texas
      Posts
      37,657
      Vehicles
      2001 Boxster, 2012 Kia Soul
      07-06-2013 11:56 AM #23
      I have set up lots of drills before using what I learned before and during my Iraq tour. The videos online from the California National Guard are quite well done:

      http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL42CD069E1B77A4FF

      They use computer simulations as well as live video to give you the idea on how to move. This isn't ARFCOM/Mall Ninja/"I spent $3,000 on an AR-15 so I know all about guns" crap. These are actual tactics and methods right out of IMT training. These squad tactics are based on what actually works in a real life-or-death situation.

      As always I stress SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY. Run through the scenario several times with no guns, then unloaded guns, then pellet guns, and lastly live guns. STRESS SAFETY!!! SAFETY!! SAFETY!! SAFETY!!!!! No training scenario is worth getting injured or worse.

      While trying to find good links for you I came across far too many terrible, unsafe, and ineffective drills filmed by airsoft commandos, paintball kiddies, and ARFCOM mall ninjas. I can't endorse 99% of them. While watching them I said "oh he'd be dead" or "that won't work" or "yeah right your ass would be mowed down quick." Their drills assume that whoever you are fighting against is a terrible shot, has nothing more powerful than a paintball gun, and does not possess anything with a rate of fire faster than a 1850s musket.

      The best youtube channel to learn how difficult and scary real movement is has to be funker530. Learn from actual footage and you will see what months of training and experience look like:

      http://www.youtube.com/user/FUNKER530?feature=watch

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    24. 07-06-2013 12:16 PM #24
      Obin I appreciate the time you took to watch all those horrible videos and narrow it down to the ones you posted. Good lookin' out!

    25. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 20th, 2000
      Location
      League City, Texas
      Posts
      37,657
      Vehicles
      2001 Boxster, 2012 Kia Soul
      07-06-2013 01:11 PM #25
      No problem man. I certainly took one for the team. I spent probably forty minutes sifting through CRAP. One guy I can personally recommend by name is Jason Falla. He's a good guy. Jason and Kyle Defoor taught one of the courses at the Blackwater site in Moyock I took before I deployed to Iraq. I crossed paths with him several times after my deployment as well. He knows his stuff and has years of experience to back his actions. His videos are good. Watch how he moves along walls, across doorways, and through open ground.

      http://www.youtube.com/user/RB1CombatTraining

      These two videos especially should be studied over and over:





      Catch the subtleties on how he moves. Watch how he transitions from left to right; peeks through doorways; and how he peeks around corners. I remember him emphasizing smoothness, economy of motion, and keeping your upper body in nice and tight. If you incorporate proper movement techniques in your drills you will learn a lot more about how to effectively defend yourself. Don't end up looking like one of those jitterbugging jihadists running around getting shot at in the current crop of video footage from Syria.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    26. 07-06-2013 03:55 PM #26
      I also suggest taking training tips from the highly effective Mali army troops.



      Namely...

      1) Don't use sights or optics, they're a waste.
      2) Wave wildly, you expand your target kill zone.
      3) Argue in the open, until one of the arguing parties is shot - this is how you decide the victor.
      4) Storm a location your buddies are shooting at, then pop up yelling, they'll totally not shoot you.

      Magpul ain't got nothing on Malipul.

    27. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 20th, 2000
      Location
      League City, Texas
      Posts
      37,657
      Vehicles
      2001 Boxster, 2012 Kia Soul
      07-06-2013 05:41 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      Namely...

      1) Don't use sights or optics, they're a waste.
      2) Wave wildly, you expand your target kill zone.
      3) Argue in the open, until one of the arguing parties is shot - this is how you decide the victor.
      4) Storm a location your buddies are shooting at, then pop up yelling, they'll totally not shoot you.

      Magpul ain't got nothing on Malipul.
      Those read exactly like the tactics that people who spend way too much time playing video games, paintball, or airsoft think will work in the real world. As you can see they don't work very well at all.

      I found some more good ones for you to develop some drills with. The methods and tactics they go over in the video read exactly like something you would be taught in combat training today. You can see the ineffective things that people do in this video which would get you shot are the same tactics being promoted by people who don't have a damn clue about what they are doing.

      Start paying special attention to this video at the 4:00 mark. See the stupid and dangerous ways of moving across terrain. Note how they avoid being highlighted even in their shadows. Note the dangerous ways which people are peeking over their cover. I can't stand it when I watch a youtube video and "Tactical Timmy's ARFCOM Training Camp" is showing armchair commandos using these tactics which were proven to be ineffective and needlessly dangerous.



      Pay attention to what is mentioned at the 8:18 and further point as well. See how they demonstrate shooting THROUGH an obstacle rather than over the top of it. I remember on this forum about a year or two ago someone was mentioning how they went to a tactical training course and they took photos of some super mall ninja method of laying low and shooting a rifle over a table. All I could think of is "poor dumb bastard. Your head just got taken clean off by a jihadist sniper."

      Check out the other videos uploaded from that user "smp220700" because they can be very effective in developing drills.

      http://www.youtube.com/user/smp220700?feature=watch

      Remember the key to an effective drill is training like you would fight.
      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    28. 07-07-2013 06:17 PM #28
      Is it weird that I do the opposite?

      I bring my real-world shooting stuff into video games... I actually yelled at a buddy of mine (light heartedly) for running into a building the other night on ARMA without clearing it...



      Oddly enough I learned most of my movement from airsoft. I think it's easier to get the point across when someone is shooting something at you. Made me consider trying to make remote controlled airsoft guns for the range. When I got out of airsoft a lot of that stuff carried over into real firearms.

      In fact I aced our little shoot house scenarios in the BP academy based solely on all of my airsoft CQB playing from years earlier. Obin has been posting some great videos. I'm fortunate enough to have never been in an on-duty shooting. I drew my gun a couple of times, but never had to employ it thankfully. Still, the principles all apply. Train like you're going to employ your gun.

      That's something I need to work on. I am too used to using a duty style holster and not operating from a concealed carry. I'll be working on that I hope.

    29. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 20th, 2000
      Location
      League City, Texas
      Posts
      37,657
      Vehicles
      2001 Boxster, 2012 Kia Soul
      07-08-2013 02:36 PM #29
      It's not unusual at all. I don't play many video games but when I do I employ real tactics. I believe it makes the gaming more fun actually. Airsoft and paintball CAN BE USED for realistic drills. Don't think I am saying otherwise. They are valuable as training aids and can be realistically employed for tactical training.

      On the other hand the vast 99% of youtube paintball and airsoft videos are not worthy of using to develop realistic drills. There's just too much junk to sift through. I would go on the record as saying that if you want a realistic drill by all means use airsoft, or even blanks. We trained for months with nothing but blanks and training rounds. The training was very effective because everyone went through the realistic motions. The live fire exercises were maybe only 10% of all rounds fired. Every other exercise (convoy, counter-IED, riot control, navigation, defense, assault, CQB, etc) was with blanks. Only the final day of each training evolution was with live rounds.

      Consider getting a blank adapter and some blanks for your guns. They are cheap and you will find that your training can be very realistic with them. Of course I stress SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY. On those DAYS that you use blanks there should be no live ammo present. The two should never be mixed on training days. Don't go to live ammo until you've done the same task down to the muscle memory part with blanks. You will find that by the time you're ready do go through a drill with live ammo you will see just how useful practicing with blanks really is.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    30. 07-08-2013 05:19 PM #30
      I agree. Airsoft has some real limitations obviously, but it's an excellent way to ingrain how small you make yourself when someone is firing at you. You'll learn immediately not to stick too much body around a corner, or stick that big chicken wing out...when it gets hit with 400-450 fps pellets, **** hurts.

      That's why I'd like remote airsoft guns for a range, so you could run drills, but someone would be shooting at you sporadically with the airsoft gun. It really makes you learn much faster. Paintballers probably have the same experience. You start learning how to very carefully expose yourself minimally for the least amount of time possible. It's a valuable skill/asset.


    31. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 20th, 2000
      Location
      League City, Texas
      Posts
      37,657
      Vehicles
      2001 Boxster, 2012 Kia Soul
      08-31-2014 02:47 PM #31
      I'm going to bump this thread up to illustrate what happens when you apply Tactical Timmy's ARFCOM Training Regimen. Want to see how NOT to do it?

      Note this video is GRAPHIC. Watch at your own risk. I'm only posting it because I don't want to see or hear about anyone here employing those stupid tactics I warned you about and have been warning you about for years. Watch this stupidity as terrorists employ Tactical Timmy's Awesome ARFCOM techniques. I actually hope that they employ these techniques more so that way the terrorists can be wiped out easier by people who actually know what they are doing:


      First fail: muzzle through wall. He also fired too many shots from the same location.
      Second fail: Exposing body through large open window.
      Third fail: no cover.
      Fourth fail: staying in same location for too long.
      Fifth fail: shooting over the top of a barricade. I actually saw a post here on the vortex years ago when someone went to a tactical rifle class in Pennsylvania and the "instructor" was showing how to shoot over the top of a barricade. I even mentioned in that post how that is one of the most dangerous things I've ever seen and in real life your head would get blown off. I'm glad that these terrorists took the advice from that tactical instructor in Pennsylvania. Hopefully they all will.
      Sixth fail: silhouetting yourself.

      I sincerely hope that all the terrorist scumbags out there keep watching those big budget tactical videos made by bearded dudes with no body armor and chest rigs full of plastic accessories. I hope that the good people here on the vortex take my advice and steer clear of that junk no matter how slick it looks. There is a reason why real training costs lots of money and takes weeks upon weeks to accomplish.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    32. Member
      Join Date
      Feb 11th, 2009
      Location
      Lewiston, Maine
      Posts
      4,613
      Vehicles
      2001 Wolfsburg Jetta
      08-31-2014 06:07 PM #32
      An awful lot of Alooo snackbar in that video. I lol'd. Apparently they need more practice with saying "keep your head down"
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

    33. 08-31-2014 06:19 PM #33
      I've been watching the Syrian threads over on milphotos and it is amazing how many people get killed doing stupid stuff. Now, granted, they're not soldiers...but the huge difference shows. Guys wildly waving AK's while shooting get killed by guys who are proned out, in recessed buildings 500 yards away. Who would have thought?

      Same thing I'm seeing in Ukraine - albeit a mixed bag. Some guys know what they're doing, others don't. I'm blown away by how much ammo is wasted just firing from an "above the shoulder" position in the vague direction of the enemy...

    34. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 20th, 2000
      Location
      League City, Texas
      Posts
      37,657
      Vehicles
      2001 Boxster, 2012 Kia Soul
      08-31-2014 07:00 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post
      An awful lot of Alooo snackbar in that video. I lol'd. Apparently they need more practice with saying "keep your head down"
      Oh I am thrilled that the snackbar commandos are demonstrating the bad advice they've been given. It makes the job the professionals are doing that much easier.

      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      I've been watching the Syrian threads over on milphotos and it is amazing how many people get killed doing stupid stuff. Now, granted, they're not soldiers...but the huge difference shows. Guys wildly waving AK's while shooting get killed by guys who are proned out, in recessed buildings 500 yards away. Who would have thought?

      Same thing I'm seeing in Ukraine - albeit a mixed bag. Some guys know what they're doing, others don't. I'm blown away by how much ammo is wasted just firing from an "above the shoulder" position in the vague direction of the enemy...
      Most of these guys are not soldiers and it shows. Whoever is training them either isn't a professional or these snackbars aren't paying attention during the training. In either case that suits us well. My point remains the same however. Be careful who you are getting your training from and what they are trying to teach you. Hey if you want to spend a thousand dollars standing up on a firing line shooting holes in a paper terrorist with your funky angled forward grip then that's fine with me. Just remember that there's a special place in the youtube hall of fame for people who think those ARFCOM armchair commando techniques actually work. Just look at the recent nominees who all earned the Golden Bullet Award from the Syrian Army.

      The best books written on the subject were written in blood. There's a reason why militaries use them. These tactics and techniques work.
      http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-75/index.html

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •