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Golf R 400

235K views 2K replies 257 participants last post by  2016vwturbo 
#1 ·
#42 ·
Weight and cost of development seem to high. That's my only real point.
 
#43 ·
I would love to see the VR6T in the Golf RS or whatever it will be called. A lighter 6 cyl with turbocharging will make the car pretty special but my gut tells me that it'll probably come with a highly boosted 2.0T. VW seems hell bent on proving to AMG that they can do it too, judging by all these concepts.

Its a shame that they might not want to continue with a VR6 which really gives VW a unique identity.
 
#46 ·
same here, would be awesome to own but I'm not paying 50+ grand for it.
 
#50 ·
Made sure I was in my local VW dealer first thing this morning to make sure I'm # 1 on the list if we get it - was assured I would be . Unlike many concept cars shown ( by many brands ) this has the air of production ready about it . I think the seats might be a problem for the US market ( ala 911 GT3 ) , but I could live without them . I could live with DSG ( never had it ) , but would prefer a manual . I'm hoping there is some truth to the idea of a carbon fiber roof to insure we DON"T get a damn sunroof on a car of this type . Realistically , I think we're looking at a $45,000 - $50,000 car which I'm OK with . Maybe it ends up as a limited run ( 500 - 800 cars ) like the 1M from 2011 . I've been driving VW's since 1975 and have never seen one I've wanted more - make it happen VW !!!!
 
#55 · (Edited)
I miss the R32s. Just with downsizing and all, full-sized Audis are getting 6-cylinder engines. They did a thing on AFTER/DRIVE about "when is too much horsepower enough?" - are we really needing more than 400HP(+tuning magic) stock in a Golf? If they can hit 3.9 secs to 60 while being able to brag about record-high specific output...I ask "why does anything justify a VR6 in a Golf over a 2.0T getting 200HP/liter?" And they haven't even touched on aluminum or electric supercharger technology like the Hyboost. Anything justifying a hi-tech V6 justifies a 4 of the same tech unless we expect absurd HP #s.

4 is the new 6.
 
#56 ·
I agree with Revolver. 4 is definitely the new 6. All of the German manufactures will have to bring out a model with a high performance 2.0 Lt turbo to compete with or better the AMG CLA / A45, looks like VW is just coming to the party first.

Anyone who's worried about reliability, don't. These engines can take it and much more.

And yes I too used to own a Mk V R32, one of the sweetest sounding engines in the world, on par with Maserati and AM, but, to be honest it was a slug, and I haven't looked back now that I have my R. And the posters here that say, yeah but the 'new' VR6 will be a turbo, well, there goes the sweet sound. Never heard a turbo engine that sounds any good.

The R400 will be a beast, and I'm sure VW will have designed it to have minimal lag, probably identical to the R, just with more power across the rev range.

VW will sell and many of these as they can build, so I'm very glad they have announced it is going into production, I just hope we don't have long to wait. One last thing VW, get rid of those wheels, they are horrid, the wheels on the Mk VI R have so much more appeal. :laugh:
 
#59 ·
Anyone who's worried about reliability, don't. These engines can take it and much more.
Can't say that for sure yet. Wait 2-4 years then we can say whether reliability is a concern in these high output 4 pots.

For some I think it really is about power delivery and how an engine drives. My VI R in boost was quite fun to drive and I am sure that even at Stage I it would have held it's own against my B6 S4...out of the box the handling of the R was already better. But in daily the lack of low end torque in the R was the only thing I didn't like about the car, below 3000 RPM it was pretty anemic.
Low end power is exactly why I'm not interested in this car. Sure it will be NUTS to drive, but this car is a ticket magnet because most of the actual fun to be had in this car will most definitely past posted speeds on American roads.

To those interested in this car: A) hopefully it makes it across the pond (we need more hot hatches) and B) I will enjoy the view and the sound when you fly by me :wave:
 
#57 ·
For some I think it really is about power delivery and how an engine drives. My VI R in boost was quite fun to drive and I am sure that even at Stage I it would have held it's own against my B6 S4...out of the box the handling of the R was already better. But in daily the lack of low end torque in the R was the only thing I didn't like about the car, below 3000 RPM it was pretty anemic. Some people prefer the feeling of a small displacement big turbo car with a surge of power as RPM builds and some prefer the feeling of instant throttle response and power of larger displacement/more cylinders. I like both for different reasons, quite simply I want a car that keeps me in the power band for the type of driving I'm doing.

I agree with others that have posted in other threads that some of the R32 push/oversteer had a lot to due about chassis tuning. One post I read showed there is not a huge difference in weight from the R32 to the VI R in terms of front/rear weight distribution. If the new VR6T were aluminum I bet that it would be a marginal difference in front end weight and I would gladly make that trade-off to have (what I assume would be) a lot more low end grunt.

But I also agree that trying to push as much power out of the 2.0T is getting a bit crazy especially because the power really is only attainable as you wind out the engine and start exceeding all posted limits. It's great for technology advancement though so I say keep going.
 
#58 ·
I hope they move the battery to the trunk, like the MKV R32.

I think it should come in DSG only (manual fanboy here).

I'd love a Golf with actual concavity to the wheels, hope that stays.

Make it 45-48k, no options, 1 way only, no sunroof, battery in trunk, summer only high spec tires (r comps maybe?) All the electronic tq biasing differentials, defeatable ESC, etc.

I'd buy.
 
#61 ·
Mitsubishi has been making high output 2.0s in the UK for awhile now. They just released the FQ-440 with 440HP. This may have also influenced the decision to release this. Anyways, that may be a decent gauge for reliability even though it's a completely different engine.
 
#62 ·
The issue here is that Mitsubishi didn't make those cars. Any of the FQ cars are joint ventures with HKS. HKS mods everything and Mitsu throws a warranty at it. They are made in such low volume that Mitsu saves money even if everyone blows up their motors because Mitsubishi didn't have to invest any R&D into it. They probably just drew a line in the sand and said our product cannot go past X amount before failing.
 
#64 ·
Take APR's ability to improve a 2.0T and add the millions in R&D, talent and years of industry knowledge in every price point of car. One that just made the 918. Are we still doubting they have what it takes to make a new 4-cylinder that's reliable at 400hp?
 
#72 ·
I don't think they will offer something that is laggy. They will either have some sort of variable vain turbo or maybe borrow from the McLaren P1 and offer Torque Fill!!! haha I wish...

Lag is almost fun though if you think about it. It gives character. It makes it dramatic to drive. You want a car like this to feel special when you drive it, and a huge smack in the back of the head when you hit boost is AWESOME! That is why old Porsches are fun, because they want you dead. I feel that you connect emotionally with a car that has character.

If something is hum drum and fast, that is fine and dandy, but you don't respect it. One of my favorite quotes is "A car is just fast enough when you stand in front of it in the morning and are afraid to unlock it" Walter Rohrl.

I want something that demands respect...
 
#73 ·
Miss the VR6 who me!?

I do not miss the VR6 (.:R32)!!!............................................... That's also because I STILL OWN ONE AND I ALWAYS WILL!!:laugh:;) I love the VR6 so much the next owner of my .:R32 will have to pry the keys out of my cold dead hands!!!!! The Wookiee has character.... that's C-H-A-R-A-C-T-E-R if you were not paying attention. That makes a car desirable and that helps sales and resale value for years to come. I love both of my .:Rs (MKIV.:R32 and MKVI Golf.:R) but the 6 has no character like the 4. The 4 is more "analog" and the 6 is "digital". Putting a VR6 turbo would be a big EFF-U to the JDM twins and the hot hatches in Europe we never see. My 6 is my "GT" performance car and my 4 is my "Track" performance car.

When I first heard the 6 has a sound-something-or-ruther under the hood I was so offended. Fake engine sounds WTF? My 4 has a sound generator under the hood........ Its called an engine!! Everywhere I drive the 4 peeps are like "Holly Ish that GTI sounds mean." The sound tells peeps my .:R means business and then I correct\educate them. Now once again i'm not dissing my 6 I love it and would ONLY trade it in on an .:R like this. The .:R brand was founded on being brash and in your face. What better way to do than with a 6 pot when everyone is going 4?

Side note what's up with the transmission in this thing? It looks like a proper VW manual with a 6 speed "H" pattern and Reverse up and to the left...... Then it has DSG paddles and only two peddles........ Which is it or is it something new?
 
#74 ·
I do not miss the VR6 (.:R32)!!!............................................... That's also because I STILL OWN ONE AND I ALWAYS WILL!!:laugh:;) I love the VR6 so much the next owner of my .:R32 will have to pry the keys out of my cold dead hands!!!!! The Wookiee has character.... that's C-H-A-R-A-C-T-E-R if you were not paying attention. That makes a car desirable and that helps sales and resale value for years to come. I love both of my .:Rs (MKIV.:R32 and MKVI Golf.:R) but the 6 has no character like the 4. The 4 is more "analog" and the 6 is "digital". Putting a VR6 turbo would be a big EFF-U to the JDM twins and the hot hatches in Europe we never see. My 6 is my "GT" performance car and my 4 is my "Track" performance car.

When I first heard the 6 has a sound-something-or-ruther under the hood I was so offended. Fake engine sounds WTF? My 4 has a sound generator under the hood........ Its called an engine!! Everywhere I drive the 4 peeps are like "Holly Ish that GTI sounds mean." The sound tells peeps my .:R means business and then I correct\educate them. Now once again i'm not dissing my 6 I love it and would ONLY trade it in on an .:R like this. The .:R brand was founded on being brash and in your face. What better way to do than with a 6 pot when everyone is going 4?

Side note what's up with the transmission in this thing? It looks like a proper VW manual with a 6 speed "H" pattern and Reverse up and to the left...... Then it has DSG paddles and only two peddles........ Which is it or is it something new?
Not that the 6 is a bad motor. It is great and sounds amazing. The only issue is that carbon emissions in EU as well as Cafe standards makes it hard to justify it over a highly boosted 4 pot. The 4 will be lighter and more economical where the 6 would have more torque and sound better. Unfortunately you can not have one motor do everything.

For the trans, they said it will be 3.9 seconds 0-60 in the DSG, but the concept car has a 6 spd in it. Who knows really. Its likely that this car is just a tarted up Golf R just so that they could have something to show. It will be likely that the production car will have DSG, and I would be surprised if it came with a 6 spd. I am not sure if the 6 spd could handle the extra power reliably.
 
#79 ·
So this is my theory… Production will be made with the 4 cylinder. Why you ask? Audi is planning on launch a production version of the TT 420 concept which also utilizes a similar if not same engine. Both the 400 and 420 are meant to be lightweight focused performance and are not meant to replace the R and RS… Audi has already confirmed that the Mk3 TTRS and the new RS3 will continue with the turbo 5 pot. With the 400 and 420 think a VW Golf and Audi TT GT3. Knowing Audi's plan I definitely see VW mirroring it with a slight detune. I do agree that the six cylinder sounds better, but I think the chances are pretty slim knowing the above.
 
#80 · (Edited)
#81 · (Edited)
#84 ·
The only thing that will distinguish this car is the 400 HP? I'm sure many a golf vii R will be reliably tuned to 400 HP.vw should think about variety, instead of one engine in every car.
Subaru Impeza is not only fast but unique in its sound
Audi TT RS not only beautiful and fast, 5 cylinder engine sounds beautiful.
 
#87 ·
Having different motors gets expensive especially when it is a limited run vehicle. The STI sounds great, but every Subaru is a boxer motor so it really isn't that different. The WRX shares its motor with the Forester XT and STI. The STI just has different heads and turbo.

I think the Mk7 R sounds good, so why won't a 400hp version sound good? More power=better everything. Plus they will have bespoke brakes, bodykit, wheels, interior pieces and so on. A lot to make it different.
 
#95 ·
I don't think that is the case chalice12, if you have a close look at the photo's on the vortex page related to this car, there are numerous things that will set this car apart and above the standard R. Such as;

Flared Guards - although it hasn't been mentioned, I dare say that the track of this vehicle is also wider, as the wheels / tyres seem to fill the width of the guards, unless the tyres are significantly wider of course.

Front Brakes - close inspection of the brakes the disks appear to be a rather dull colour, hinting at possible ceramic disks, and the callipers appear larger 4 pot or could we hope for 6 pot.

Interior - Alcantara and carbon interior

Engine - yes it only 400 HP, however remember it comes with full factory warranty, unlike plenty of tuned cars that have gone horribly wrong. I would much rather take a factory 400 HP than a 250 or 300 HP engine that has been tuned to 400 HP or beyond.

Exclusivity - this will sit at the very top of the Golf tree, I doubt we will see any other high performance R. You can all definitely put out of your minds any hope of a VR6, that is never going to happen. If you want a VR6, hunt around for a Mk V R32 in good condition. I was sad to let mine go, but the increased power of my Mk VI R more than made up for it. And the R400 will make me forget I ever owned a car as slow as the R32. In fact, I would suggest that the R400 could possible be faster that the incoming RS3 and M2, rumours suggest approx. 380 HP in both those engines with low '4's' for the 0 - 100 times, and it will kill the AMG CLA / A45, until they bring out a 'Black' version.

In any case, its shaping up as a great time to be an enthusiast. :laugh:
 
#85 ·
maybe i have not looked at the new Golfs or new Rs enough but this looks like it has new bumpers and slightly wider fenders


punching some numbers up - at 45k it has a buffer from a C7 Vette. But if it gets to that 50k sticker - that is a tough call for someone just looking for a track toy
 
#94 ·
Do you guys think this (& more importantly the R; this ain't coming) will have a bigger buzz than the past models? They all had something left on the table by VW (trans & doors). I do, and am a bit nervous about getting one in the first year...
 
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