VWVortex.com - MkIII audio pros help please.
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Results 1 to 24 of 24

    Thread: MkIII audio pros help please.

    1. Member 02GTIFREESKIER's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 3rd, 2006
      Location
      Alta, UT
      Posts
      2,536
      Vehicles
      Nissan Pathfinder 4.0l. KTM 250 XC
      07-23-2014 11:23 AM #1
      So Ive been working on a co-workers mkIII just doing random stuff Tune up, timing belt, hitch install, etc. Everythings been great other than the stereo. It has been the bane of my existence. After getting through the immobilizer issues, now I'm not able to get the speakers in the the rear door to make any decent noise. Even cranked up they kind of just hum along at a real low level. Is this because the aftermarkets are twice the resistance of the factory speakers? If so, is there a solution? The car originally had the "premium anti theft audio" deck in it, and it has the four wire harness for the rear speakers. Now it has a Sony HU, and pioneer premier speakers running the only two wires that would make any sound.

      Thanks
      -Dave
      Corrado: because I always wanted to get heckled by elitist pricks over the internet.

    2. Member 02GTIFREESKIER's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 3rd, 2006
      Location
      Alta, UT
      Posts
      2,536
      Vehicles
      Nissan Pathfinder 4.0l. KTM 250 XC
      07-23-2014 03:49 PM #2
      TTT. Whos got the fix for this?
      Corrado: because I always wanted to get heckled by elitist pricks over the internet.

    3. Member project95mk3's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 27th, 2009
      Location
      Hales Corners WI
      Posts
      1,594
      Vehicles
      put put BANG!!!
      07-23-2014 05:18 PM #3
      have you checked the wires that run thru the door frame to the door something could be lose or broken

    4. Member 02GTIFREESKIER's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 3rd, 2006
      Location
      Alta, UT
      Posts
      2,536
      Vehicles
      Nissan Pathfinder 4.0l. KTM 250 XC
      07-24-2014 11:20 AM #4
      No its getting signal, its just very weak. The original speakers worked fine with the four wire harness but now that there is only two wires running each speaker they are very quiet. I know people have ran into this before with the "Premium" sound system. I just cant recall the fix.
      Corrado: because I always wanted to get heckled by elitist pricks over the internet.

    5. Member 02GTIFREESKIER's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 3rd, 2006
      Location
      Alta, UT
      Posts
      2,536
      Vehicles
      Nissan Pathfinder 4.0l. KTM 250 XC
      08-04-2014 07:46 PM #5
      ttt. Still trying to figure this out.
      Corrado: because I always wanted to get heckled by elitist pricks over the internet.

    6. Banned
      Join Date
      Apr 16th, 2008
      Location
      PTown, VA
      Posts
      1,710
      Vehicles
      1997 GTI VR6
      08-04-2014 08:48 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by 02GTIFREESKIER View Post
      The original speakers worked fine with the four wire harness but now that there is only two wires running each speaker they are very quiet. I know people have ran into this before with the "Premium" sound system.
      I'm not really sure I understand this statement. All speakers have two connections, positive and negative, and there was not much to the "Premium" sound system (at least on my '97 VR). Has tweeters in the dash and mids in the door panels for front and tweeters and mids in the back door panels (3 doors anyway). Nothing special, hell component speakers usually have crossovers which the factory setup never had. They just ran the wires in series to the mids and tweeters. Could be wrong, but it sounds like a short in the rear speaker wires or possibly the rear speakers are toast. Not fun, but it if were me I'd pull the speakers and headunit and run wires directly to both to rule things out and go from there. GL.

    7. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 13th, 2013
      Location
      Lakeland, Fl.
      Posts
      560
      Vehicles
      96 Jetta VR6
      08-06-2014 10:53 AM #7
      i agree.. it has to be a connection or ground issue...

    8. Member 02GTIFREESKIER's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 3rd, 2006
      Location
      Alta, UT
      Posts
      2,536
      Vehicles
      Nissan Pathfinder 4.0l. KTM 250 XC
      08-12-2014 03:44 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by critar View Post
      I'm not really sure I understand this statement. All speakers have two connections, positive and negative, and there was not much to the "Premium" sound system (at least on my '97 VR). Has tweeters in the dash and mids in the door panels for front and tweeters and mids in the back door panels (3 doors anyway). Nothing special, hell component speakers usually have crossovers which the factory setup never had. They just ran the wires in series to the mids and tweeters. Could be wrong, but it sounds like a short in the rear speaker wires or possibly the rear speakers are toast. Not fun, but it if were me I'd pull the speakers and headunit and run wires directly to both to rule things out and go from there. GL.
      Hmm Ill put a meter on it and see if anything is dumping to ground but I'm doubtful. This "premium" audio system has two harnesses with two wires in each harness for a total of four wires for one speaker. Screwy I know, but that's how it is. It also has tweeters in the rear door, and tweeters in the dash. And when you remove the tweeters None of the speakers work. They seem to somehow be wired in series with the other speakers. I know it doesnt make much sense and ive never seen anything like it before. I was hoping someone else had dealt with this issue.
      Corrado: because I always wanted to get heckled by elitist pricks over the internet.

    9. Banned
      Join Date
      Apr 16th, 2008
      Location
      PTown, VA
      Posts
      1,710
      Vehicles
      1997 GTI VR6
      08-12-2014 05:00 PM #9
      Sounds right. Connectors should look like the first pic and second pic is from Dan Reed's site showing how speakers are typically wired in parallel. If you've got something different going on, post a pic of the connectors.




    10. Member RoseBud68's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 13th, 2012
      Location
      PSL,FL
      Posts
      3,068
      Vehicles
      97 GLX, AAA
      08-12-2014 05:03 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by 02GTIFREESKIER View Post
      Hmm Ill put a meter on it and see if anything is dumping to ground but I'm doubtful. This "premium" audio system has two harnesses with two wires in each harness for a total of four wires for one speaker. Screwy I know, but that's how it is. It also has tweeters in the rear door, and tweeters in the dash. And when you remove the tweeters None of the speakers work. They seem to somehow be wired in series with the other speakers. I know it doesnt make much sense and ive never seen anything like it before. I was hoping someone else had dealt with this issue.
      When I purchases a head unit from Crutchfield they recommended floating ground adapter. Had no use for it for my install but your sound like it those.

      Quote Originally Posted by oscar563 View Post
      VW's are like hot models...high maintenance but I just don't care
      Quote Originally Posted by jearp View Post
      zach is troll master

    11. Member mfredrick's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 19th, 2012
      Location
      Coon Rapids, MN
      Posts
      211
      Vehicles
      97' Golf K2 -- 97' Jetta RIP
      08-15-2014 02:46 AM #11
      could just be a difference in resistance between stock speakers and aftermarket. Bose system has an amp and the speakers are somthing like 2 ohm and most aftermarket are 4.
      Quote Originally Posted by masterbeavis
      The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten.
      Quote Originally Posted by MK321 View Post
      Followers are swallowers bro. Go hug a tree.

    12. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 23rd, 2016
      Location
      Mechanicsville, VA
      Posts
      139
      Vehicles
      96 K1500 Suburban, 06 Suburban Z71, 03 Fleetwood Prowler. 99 MK3 Jetta 2.slow (R.I.P.), 01 Golf GLS
      07-23-2016 12:16 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by 02GTIFREESKIER View Post
      Hmm Ill put a meter on it and see if anything is dumping to ground but I'm doubtful. This "premium" audio system has two harnesses with two wires in each harness for a total of four wires for one speaker. Screwy I know, but that's how it is. It also has tweeters in the rear door, and tweeters in the dash. And when you remove the tweeters None of the speakers work. They seem to somehow be wired in series with the other speakers. I know it doesnt make much sense and ive never seen anything like it before. I was hoping someone else had dealt with this issue.
      I wonder if my problem could be related to this...

      Swapped in an Alpine H/U and Alpine front door 6.5's from my "parts car", left OE rear deck speakers (6.5's and tweeters). Planned to do rear deck swap later. Still sounded good.

      Pulled OE rear speakers and tweeters, H/U cut back to just DS front door 6.5 and dash tweeter.

      Figured H/U went in to some sort of "protect" mode (my wife's Saturn Outlook did that when I forgot to reconnect A-pillar tweeters after a speaker upgrade).

      Repaired a bunch of broken wires in both front door harnesses.

      Installed crossovers, mid-bass 6.5's and tweeters (re-used OE tweeters).

      Still nuttin' but the DS door.

      Could the whole body harness be bad?

      Could it be as simple as a bad ground?

      Or could it be the weird way the rears are wired in series as was posted?

      Also considering that it could be a H/U issue, but not likely.

      Am confident my splices are good.

      Have not checked where the harness runs thru the rear doors, does anyone know if the rear deck speaker wires run thru there too?

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid

    13. 07-25-2016 09:35 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Charles_Colfax View Post

      Repaired a bunch of broken wires in both front door harnesses.



      Could the whole body harness be bad?

      Could it be as simple as a bad ground?

      Or could it be the weird way the rears are wired in series as was posted?

      Have not checked where the harness runs thru the rear doors, does anyone know if the rear deck speaker wires run thru there too?

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid
      Any wiring going through any door is suspect, and the I've noticed that the stock blade connectors sometimes don't like to fit snugly on aftermarket speakers.
      The speakers above are wired in parallel, but I've always wanted to replace the stock wiring and connector setup at the speakers with something more reliable because if I smack the dash I can get the dash speakers to fade in and out sometimes.
      =P

    14. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 23rd, 2016
      Location
      Mechanicsville, VA
      Posts
      139
      Vehicles
      96 K1500 Suburban, 06 Suburban Z71, 03 Fleetwood Prowler. 99 MK3 Jetta 2.slow (R.I.P.), 01 Golf GLS
      07-25-2016 10:01 PM #14
      K.

      Looks like I am checking the rear door connectors tomorrow.

      I suxors at reading German wiring diagrams, so I assume the rear speaker wires run thru them.

      Once I address any issues there I'll move on.

      I lose track of the rear deck wires as they disappear back down under the rear seat so I am not sure where the harness splits in to two separate sets of wires for the mid bass 6.5's and the tweeters.
      Both have the same color coding.
      I treated Brown as Negative in all applications.
      I also looked at my crossovers; since it had WF in and TW in, I may try running the factory tweeter wires to the TW in and just make jumpers to go from the XVR to the TW like I did for the WF

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid

    15. 07-26-2016 12:09 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Charles_Colfax View Post
      K.

      Looks like I am checking the rear door connectors tomorrow.

      I suxors at reading German wiring diagrams, so I assume the rear speaker wires run thru them.

      Once I address any issues there I'll move on.

      I lose track of the rear deck wires as they disappear back down under the rear seat so I am not sure where the harness splits in to two separate sets of wires for the mid bass 6.5's and the tweeters.
      Both have the same color coding.
      I treated Brown as Negative in all applications.
      I also looked at my crossovers; since it had WF in and TW in, I may try running the factory tweeter wires to the TW in and just make jumpers to go from the XVR to the TW like I did for the WF

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid
      It's easy enough to check the headunit outputs, but I think that you will find your issues are going to be a problem with stock wiring or connection condition, probably in the door accordion or the barrel connectors for any door speakers, or any connectors along the way or at the components, or something is not hooked up properly. If you look at any of the channels in the diagram, the stock "woofer" and "tweeter" wires are really the same original circuit and carry the same exact original signal. Any filtering in that setup takes place on-board of the original drivers with resistors that are not shown. Not sure what x-overs you are using or how you are jumpering things, but you just need to worry about setting up the x-overs to be bi-wired, since it sounds like it is a bi-ampable passive model. What do you have, one of those for each of the four main channels?
      Last edited by 'dubber; 07-26-2016 at 12:12 AM.
      =P

    16. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 23rd, 2016
      Location
      Mechanicsville, VA
      Posts
      139
      Vehicles
      96 K1500 Suburban, 06 Suburban Z71, 03 Fleetwood Prowler. 99 MK3 Jetta 2.slow (R.I.P.), 01 Golf GLS
      07-26-2016 01:50 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by 'dubber View Post
      It's easy enough to check the headunit outputs, but I think that you will find your issues are going to be a problem with stock wiring or connection condition, probably in the door accordion or the barrel connectors for any door speakers, or any connectors along the way or at the components, or something is not hooked up properly. If you look at any of the channels in the diagram, the stock "woofer" and "tweeter" wires are really the same original circuit and carry the same exact original signal. Any filtering in that setup takes place on-board of the original drivers with resistors that are not shown. Not sure what x-overs you are using or how you are jumpering things, but you just need to worry about setting up the x-overs to be bi-wired, since it sounds like it is a bi-ampable passive model. What do you have, one of those for each of the four main channels?
      That makes sense about the wire color coding and them carrying the same signal only to be "filtered" at the actual driver.

      What is bugging me is that all speakers worked fine (A/M doors and OE rears) when I first swapped H/U in.

      Pretty sure both fronts worked after I pulled the OE rears but I can't remember.

      I also can't remember if the PS fronts cut out before or after a I had a code pulled and cleared.

      Then I could possibly be dealing with the infamous "K-line" issue.

      (The Jetta is a 99 MK3... Late 98 production.)

      I used commercially available adapters on the front doors and my own crimped splices on the XVR and the rears.

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid

    17. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 23rd, 2016
      Location
      Mechanicsville, VA
      Posts
      139
      Vehicles
      96 K1500 Suburban, 06 Suburban Z71, 03 Fleetwood Prowler. 99 MK3 Jetta 2.slow (R.I.P.), 01 Golf GLS
      07-26-2016 02:14 PM #17
      Pics of crossover


      Sent via Turbocharged Droid

    18. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 23rd, 2016
      Location
      Mechanicsville, VA
      Posts
      139
      Vehicles
      96 K1500 Suburban, 06 Suburban Z71, 03 Fleetwood Prowler. 99 MK3 Jetta 2.slow (R.I.P.), 01 Golf GLS
      07-26-2016 02:15 PM #18
      FWIW the car was a GL with the standard, non Bose, non amped stereo

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid

    19. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 23rd, 2016
      Location
      Mechanicsville, VA
      Posts
      139
      Vehicles
      96 K1500 Suburban, 06 Suburban Z71, 03 Fleetwood Prowler. 99 MK3 Jetta 2.slow (R.I.P.), 01 Golf GLS
      07-26-2016 02:18 PM #19
      After looking at crossover wiring instrux again, yes the can be bi-amped, I did not wire them this way. I simply took the + and - that would have gone directly to the rear mid bass woofer and ran it to the woofer in on the crossover

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid

    20. 07-26-2016 04:21 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Charles_Colfax View Post
      After looking at crossover wiring instrux again, yes the can be bi-amped, I did not wire them this way. I simply took the + and - that would have gone directly to the rear mid bass woofer and ran it to the woofer in on the crossover

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid
      Shorted K-line shouldn't matter to the system, but it could kill a scan tool. Looks like you have the two on-board signal jumpers in place on the crossover, so it should be set up to act as bi-wired and you just need to feed main signal to one of the inputs, which you have done. Looks like there is another jumper area there so you can select a slope for something. Start testing the four speaker level output channels from the headunit for signal at various points. You can feed a known-good signal to the crossover input to see if the drivers react. Are you using these crossovers and speakers on all four corners?
      =P

    21. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 23rd, 2016
      Location
      Mechanicsville, VA
      Posts
      139
      Vehicles
      96 K1500 Suburban, 06 Suburban Z71, 03 Fleetwood Prowler. 99 MK3 Jetta 2.slow (R.I.P.), 01 Golf GLS
      07-26-2016 09:26 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by 'dubber View Post
      Shorted K-line shouldn't matter to the system, but it could kill a scan tool. Looks like you have the two on-board signal jumpers in place on the crossover, so it should be set up to act as bi-wired and you just need to feed main signal to one of the inputs, which you have done. Looks like there is another jumper area there so you can select a slope for something. Start testing the four speaker level output channels from the headunit for signal at various points. You can feed a known-good signal to the crossover input to see if the drivers react. Are you using these crossovers and speakers on all four corners?
      Dude you have been so much help... I feel bad that I have not been able to jump on some of these ideas...
      It's tough sometimes working 24-hour shifts and managing 3 kids and two other project vehicles when I'm off.
      LOL
      AFAIK I have them set up correctly as passive crossovers for a single full spectrum, non amped input.
      With short "jumpers" from the respective outputs to the appropriate speakers (woofers and tweeters).
      Since I am using OE tweeters, I used pieces of OE harness that I pulled from the JY with OE clips to attach to speakers with crimped on female blade connectors to attach to the crossover.

      My gut is telling me the problem is well before the rear speakers tho.

      Since the A/M HU worked fine running the A/M front doors and the OE rear components... For a while.

      I just can't precisely identify WHEN the failure occurred.

      I will look at rear door accordions tomorrow. And do my best to check harness between HU and the PS door.

      Then this project will prolly have to take a back burner for a coupla weeks.

      I'm going camping next week and have a few things to finish up on my tow rig and my trailer.

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid

    22. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 23rd, 2016
      Location
      Mechanicsville, VA
      Posts
      139
      Vehicles
      96 K1500 Suburban, 06 Suburban Z71, 03 Fleetwood Prowler. 99 MK3 Jetta 2.slow (R.I.P.), 01 Golf GLS
      07-26-2016 09:28 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by 'dubber View Post
      Shorted K-line shouldn't matter to the system, but it could kill a scan tool. Looks like you have the two on-board signal jumpers in place on the crossover, so it should be set up to act as bi-wired and you just need to feed main signal to one of the inputs, which you have done. Looks like there is another jumper area there so you can select a slope for something. Start testing the four speaker level output channels from the headunit for signal at various points. You can feed a known-good signal to the crossover input to see if the drivers react. Are you using these crossovers and speakers on all four corners?
      Oh, and no. Crossovers are only on the rear deck. All factory harness running the front doors and dash tweeters.

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid

    23. 07-27-2016 03:50 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Charles_Colfax View Post
      Dude you have been so much help... I feel bad that I have not been able to jump on some of these ideas...
      It's tough sometimes working 24-hour shifts and managing 3 kids and two other project vehicles when I'm off.
      LOL
      AFAIK I have them set up correctly as passive crossovers for a single full spectrum, non amped input.
      With short "jumpers" from the respective outputs to the appropriate speakers (woofers and tweeters).
      Since I am using OE tweeters, I used pieces of OE harness that I pulled from the JY with OE clips to attach to speakers with crimped on female blade connectors to attach to the crossover.

      My gut is telling me the problem is well before the rear speakers tho.

      Since the A/M HU worked fine running the A/M front doors and the OE rear components... For a while.

      I just can't precisely identify WHEN the failure occurred.

      I will look at rear door accordions tomorrow. And do my best to check harness between HU and the PS door.

      Then this project will prolly have to take a back burner for a coupla weeks.

      I'm going camping next week and have a few things to finish up on my tow rig and my trailer.

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid
      Quote Originally Posted by Charles_Colfax View Post
      Oh, and no. Crossovers are only on the rear deck. All factory harness running the front doors and dash tweeters.

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid
      Crutchfield has instructions online for your crossovers. that third jumper seems to allow for tweeter attenuation so you can adjust the staging.
      Here is what I would do just to get it going, once you can determine that you have all channels working out of the HU and your wiring and connections are checking good. I would use those crossovers for your front stage. If you have the woofers and tweeters that came with the crossovers, I would also use them up front since they are theoretically matched to the crossover. Put the tweets in the dash holes if you can mount them there effectively, and woofers in the doors. I would not bother to run any rear door tweeters. The wiring going to the rear deck drivers (and presumably back from there to the door barrel connectors to run the tweeters) PROBABLY runs under the front and rear door sill covers and does not go through the door like the door tweeter wiring. Easiest thing to do would be to just run two two-ways in the back deck off of the HU rear channels and you'll have plenty of sound coming from back there and if you want to get crazy find high-pass passive crossovers for them so you don't feed them too much bass. Your HU might even have some x-over settings on-board, but probably going to affect the front channels at the same time. Personally I always liked the idea of running one-way drivers like you have mounted now as more of a rear-fill mid-bass driver at low attenuation with a band-pass crossover chopping out the lows and the highs. Finding a passive band-pass crossover to do that might be a little tough, I have no idea. Later on if you want to and the HU has line-level sub output, add a mono amp with onboard low-pass x-over and 8" sub and you're good.
      =P

    24. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 23rd, 2016
      Location
      Mechanicsville, VA
      Posts
      139
      Vehicles
      96 K1500 Suburban, 06 Suburban Z71, 03 Fleetwood Prowler. 99 MK3 Jetta 2.slow (R.I.P.), 01 Golf GLS
      07-27-2016 02:57 PM #24
      All of that makes perfect sense.
      Yes the rear mid bass drivers are matched to the crossovers.
      The matching tweeters were gone tho.
      I have two ways in the front doors.
      Theoretically a swap is doable

      But first i need to go back to the beginning and figure out why only get sound out of the front DS speaker

      Sent via Turbocharged Droid

    For advertising information click HERE

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •