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    Thread: hospital shootout

    1. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      07-25-2014 11:33 AM #1
      http://www.latimes.com/nation/nation...724-story.html
      http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20..._hospital.html

      doc ignores the "no firearms" rule and ccw.
      psych patient starts shooting and kills case worker
      doc "fixes" it
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      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

    2. 07-25-2014 11:42 AM #2
      Not even going to bother reading that stuff, as it'll all end up being stupid.

      However, I can't think of a better place to be in a gunfight...than a hospital. Good job to the doc. This is something that a lot of "grey man" forums discuss heavily. Is it worth breaking a law if by breaking that law you end up saving your life or someone else?

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      07-25-2014 11:44 AM #3
      Good move. Sounds like the Doc might have been afraid about his patient. That is what Fox News speculated.

      I am not sure if he always brought a gun with him, or just did for that day.
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      07-25-2014 11:47 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      Not even going to bother reading that stuff, as it'll all end up being stupid.

      However, I can't think of a better place to be in a gunfight...than a hospital. Good job to the doc. This is something that a lot of "grey man" forums discuss heavily. Is it worth breaking a law if by breaking that law you end up saving your life or someone else?
      ^ I don't understand how it ever wouldn't be worth it, since the whole point of laws is to lenghten and improve our quality of life. OT though, PM if you'd like.

      I say props to the doctor.

    5. 07-25-2014 11:57 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by J2G View Post

      I say props to the doctor.


      I'm sure he'll lose his ability to work at the hospital but I'm sure he's more concerned about the safety of everyone he saved that day. No telling how bad it could have turned out had he not acted as he did.
      "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."

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      07-25-2014 12:03 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by foxtrot762 View Post


      I'm sure he'll lose his ability to work at the hospital but I'm sure he's more concerned about the safety of everyone he saved that day. No telling how bad it could have turned out had he not acted as he did.
      Th Chief of Police believes the guy would have shot as many people as he could have.

      So props to the Doctor.
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      07-25-2014 12:09 PM #7
      I read about this last night. Amazingly, it took until the 3rd paragraph to indicate it was a psychiatrist, not an MD. The anti's will be throwing their spittle at this, claiming "If he was concerned enough to carry a gun, why didn't he call the police?"

      "They kept coming," Williams said. "Guys with helmets and automatic weapons kept jumping out of their cars. It was total panic. . . . I saw three people come out in stretchers."

      Really? Are you trained to know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic weapons there, Alfred?

      Anna Smith, an ultrasound technician, was on the first floor of the building celebrating a colleague's 60th birthday when police burst in and told everyone to leave through the back door, she said.
      "There's a sign on the door that says you have to check your weapons at the front," she said. "But you can't expect every crazy person to do that."
      But, but, there's a SIGN!
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    8. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      07-25-2014 12:37 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      But, but, there's a SIGN!
      that sign better be at least bulleproof and big enough to hide behind
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      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

    9. 07-25-2014 12:40 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      I read about this last night. Amazingly, it took until the 3rd paragraph to indicate it was a psychiatrist, not an MD. The anti's will be throwing their spittle at this, claiming "If he was concerned enough to carry a gun, why didn't he call the police?"


      Really? Are you trained to know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic weapons there, Alfred?
      [COLOR=#000000]


      But, but, there's a SIGN!
      Uh, a psychiatrist is an MD

      Psychiatrists go through medical school & residency.
      Psychologists do not.

    10. 07-25-2014 12:52 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      . This is something that a lot of "grey man" forums discuss heavily. Is it worth breaking a law if by breaking that law you end up saving your life or someone else?
      I normally don't post without rechecking..

      But I'm 99% sure the law in GA just changed (or it is awaiting sig from gov) that said you could not be prosecuted if you broke the law by carrying into an off limits location but the used it to protect yourself or others against an attacker.

      For example you carry into a school, someone comes in firing, you take them out, you could not be charged with carrying in the school.

      But if you carry in the school, someone sees it randomly you could then be charged.

    11. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      07-25-2014 01:41 PM #11
      considering "concealed" is the key word in "concealed carry" nobody *SHOULD* ever know you were carrying nor see it randomly
      Demokratikally Elekted Fist Lieutenant of the Outside Cavalry of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

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      07-25-2014 01:47 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by joness0154 View Post
      Uh, a psychiatrist is an MD

      Psychiatrists go through medical school & residency.
      Psychologists do not.
      What's next, you're gonna call a Chiropractor a doctor, too?

      What I meant was the incident wasn't a "turn your head and cough" exam or "does it hurt when you pee?" type of thing. It was mental illness, which no one really wants to talk about in the open. Just the small confines of offices decorated by someone who loves the color brown.

      A more appropriate headline would be "Pennsylvania piece-packing psychiatrist prevents psych patient's rampage." Or something.
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    13. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      07-25-2014 02:05 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      A more appropriate headline would be "Pennsylvania piece-packing psychiatrist prevents psych patient's rampage." Or something.
      you're so alliterate

      Pennsylvania piece-packing psychiatrist precariously prevents pissed psych patient's populicide.
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      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

    14. Member GreenandChrome's Avatar
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      07-25-2014 02:10 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      I normally don't post without rechecking..

      But I'm 99% sure the law in GA just changed (or it is awaiting sig from gov) that said you could not be prosecuted if you broke the law by carrying into an off limits location but the used it to protect yourself or others against an attacker.

      For example you carry into a school, someone comes in firing, you take them out, you could not be charged with carrying in the school.

      But if you carry in the school, someone sees it randomly you could then be charged.

      The language appears to allow immunity from criminal prosecution if one has to resort to force to protect themselves. The language is:

      A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, 16-3-23, 16-3-21.1, or 16-3-24 shall be immune from criminal prosecution therefor unless in the use of deadly force, such person utilizes a weapon the carrying or possession of which is unlawful by such person under Part 2 of Article 4 of Chapter 11 of this title.
      Maybe I'm reading it wrong by inserting commas where they should to be, but it reads that a self-defense shooter is immune unless they are at a prohibited place, or they are prohibited from possessing a firearm.
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      07-25-2014 02:11 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      you're so alliterate

      Pennsylvania piece-packing psychiatrist precariously prevents pissed psych patient's populicide.
      oh, populicide, good one. I'd use "proactively" instead of "precariously."
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    16. 07-25-2014 02:16 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      considering "concealed" is the key word in "concealed carry" nobody *SHOULD* ever know you were carrying nor see it randomly
      GA among other states are also open carry. Where you can and cannot carry doesn't change whether it is concealed or open.

    17. 07-25-2014 02:38 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      The language appears to allow immunity from criminal prosecution if one has to resort to force to protect themselves. The language is:



      Maybe I'm reading it wrong by inserting commas where they should to be, but it reads that a self-defense shooter is immune unless they are at a prohibited place, or they are prohibited from possessing a firearm.
      plain text version I read a few months ago:

      The bill expands the state’s “Stand Your Ground” law, a version of which rose to prominence in the legal debate over the shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Florida. Before, you couldn’t invoke that defense — which provides immunity from prosecution — if you used a banned firearm in self-defense. Now, you can: “this bill provides that a person will be immune from prosecution in using deadly force in self-defense or defense of others or property even if the person utilizes a weapon in violation of [the Georgia Firearms and Weapons Act],” the report finds.
      So yes (it seems) it is covering you now in places you previously would have been prosecuted for carrying, those banned places are set out in the GFWA and were also revised to include more allowed places in HB60


      It would also seem to cover someone who did not have a Georgia weapons license, since the GFWA is what currently dictates the laws regarding licensing.
      Last edited by chris86vw; 07-25-2014 at 02:41 PM.

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      07-25-2014 02:45 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by joness0154 View Post
      Uh, a psychiatrist is an MD

      Psychiatrists go through medical school & residency.
      Psychologists do not.
      What about analrapists ?


      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      you're so alliterate

      Pennsylvania piece-packing psychiatrist precariously prevents pissed psych patient's populicide.
      Gold

      The location isn't a "hospital", its an outpatient center. Open doors, no security. Carry whatever you want.
      Expose your cracks and love will fill them.

    19. 07-25-2014 02:51 PM #19
      I'm interested to know if anyone is seeing this story on their local news. National media doesn't normally cover stories about good guys with guns stopping bad guys with guns.
      "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."

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    20. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      07-25-2014 03:01 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      oh, populicide, good one. I'd use "proactively" instead of "precariously."
      not sure if he was Proactive since he was reacting after the Perp
      Precariously was just the first thing that Popped into my head
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      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

    21. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      07-25-2014 03:02 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by MAC View Post
      The location isn't a "hospital", its an outpatient center. Open doors, no security. Carry whatever you want.
      they do have a sign (article said so)
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      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

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      07-25-2014 03:04 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      not sure if he was Proactive since he was reacting after the Perp
      Precariously was just the first thing that Popped into my head
      In any event the act was premeditated.
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    23. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      07-25-2014 03:05 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by foxtrot762 View Post
      I'm interested to know if anyone is seeing this story on their local news. National media doesn't normally cover stories about good guys with guns stopping bad guys with guns.
      washington post
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...lphia-suburbs/

      i like this part: "The scene was secured, and is no longer considered an active shooter situation."
      it stopped being an active shooter situation right after the patient suffered an allergic reaction to high velocity lead ...

      usa today
      http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...nter/13113555/
      Last edited by mad8vskillz; 07-25-2014 at 03:08 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

    24. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      07-25-2014 03:07 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.FOH!! View Post
      In any event the act was premeditated.
      suspect was pacified
      Demokratikally Elekted Fist Lieutenant of the Outside Cavalry of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
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      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

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      07-25-2014 03:08 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.FOH!! View Post
      In any event the act was premeditated.
      Precisely

    26. 07-25-2014 03:13 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      washington post
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...lphia-suburbs/

      i like this part: "The scene was secured, and is no longer considered an active shooter situation."
      it stopped being an active shooter situation right after the patient suffered an allergic reaction to high velocity lead ...

      usa today
      http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...nter/13113555/
      This is the part I was interested to see would make the story
      Investigators believe the suspect was then shot several times by the doctor in a room
      and slightly wounding the doctor, who shot the gunman with his personal firearm, authorities said.
      Seems every shooter lately has been a mental case.
      "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."

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      07-25-2014 03:17 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.FOH!! View Post
      In any event the act was premeditated.
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      suspect was pacified
      Quote Originally Posted by bubbagti View Post
      Precisely
      Prolific, pithy prose, people.
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      07-25-2014 03:22 PM #28
      body quickly rejected copper coated lead administered by doctor
      Last edited by mad8vskillz; 07-25-2014 at 03:37 PM.
      Demokratikally Elekted Fist Lieutenant of the Outside Cavalry of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

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      07-25-2014 03:38 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by foxtrot762 View Post
      Seems every shooter ever has been a mental case.
      ftfy... (i don't mean the gang/drunken argument/robbery guys, i mean the "let's shoot up a mall" guys)
      Demokratikally Elekted Fist Lieutenant of the Outside Cavalry of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

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      07-25-2014 04:00 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      body quickly rejected copper coated lead administered by doctor
      Procedural code? "ICD-9"
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    31. 07-25-2014 04:32 PM #31
      Great job doctor! who knows how many lifes he saved.

      "Gun Free Zone" laws should only be used against unlawful use of firearms, as an extra charge. People simply carring for their own protection should be protected against the laws.

      also

      inbefore some one says CCW holders, never make a difference and are all pussies.

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      07-25-2014 04:40 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      GA among other states are also open carry. Where you can and cannot carry doesn't change whether it is concealed or open.
      That's not always entirely true. In many states, you can't carry within x distance of a gun free zone like a school without a CCW (which instead usually draws the line at that property). Or you have states like PA, where this story took place, in which you can't transport a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a CCW. There are many situations in many states where you have more ability with a CCW than you do without.

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      07-25-2014 05:03 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by dj age one View Post
      Great job doctor! who knows how many lifes he saved.

      "Gun Free Zone" laws should only be used against unlawful use of firearms, as an extra charge. People simply carring for their own protection should be protected against the laws.

      also

      inbefore some one says CCW holders, never make a difference and are all pussies.

      Most lives ever saved by a psychiatrist.

      In all honesty I have thought of this scenario. At this stage in my career (Residency) I'm not sure that I'd have the legal backing of the hospital if something like this were to transpire. And also as a surgeon in training, we treat gunshots...would I be ethically obligated to treat the man I shot (docs are not supposed to be judgemental and we are to treat the child molestor as the child molestee)
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    34. 07-25-2014 05:08 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Internal Combustion View Post
      Most lives ever saved by a psychiatrist.

      In all honesty I have thought of this scenario. At this stage in my career (Residency) I'm not sure that I'd have the legal backing of the hospital if something like this were to transpire. And also as a surgeon in training, we treat gunshots...would I be ethically obligated to treat the man I shot (docs are not supposed to be judgemental and we are to treat the child molestor as the child molestee)
      That's why you have to make your shots count. No use in operating on a dead man.
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      07-25-2014 05:23 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      considering "concealed" is the key word in "concealed carry" nobody *SHOULD* ever know you were carrying nor see it randomly
      Around Cary, I've seen a few people with their weapons holstered and in plain sight. Not as if it's a long rifle on a three-point sling, just a pistol. If visibly carrying could keep someone from thinking twice about going white boy crazy and shooting up a place then I'm all for it.
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