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    Thread: A quick D.I.Y. Cam Chain and Tensioner *BPY engines

    1. 01-17-2017 12:02 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by nater View Post
      Well, you stated that you just picked up the car and it doesn't run. Most likely due to HPFP but who knows. I guess he's trying to tell you to start fresh if you're going to be in there.
      Get the cam locking tool, if you take the chain off one of the cams may move slightly and you'll be in trouble. Get it at TDC, lock the tool/cams in place, then just swap the chains (counting links if you want).
      Spin the engine more than once/twice and make sure ALL marks align and voila!
      For what its worth. I have the genuine cam lock tool and there is still a lot more play in the cams than I would have expected.

      I'm no expert here.

      I think the cam lock tool is more of an idiot proof appliance.

      I don't think anyone here will recommend you do it without the tool.

      You seem to sound fairly confident.

      If it was me and I had a non running car with doubts with respect to the timing of the engine, I would be pulling the timing belt and cam chain and following a best practice guideline for retiming everything.

      Just as a heads up, chain slack should be at the top. Chain should be tight underneath.

      I could see this being possible to do without the cam lock. .... in theory but I'm definitely not a pro and have never have to fully retime an engine so I'm kinda talking out my ass at this point.

      Sent from my ASUS_Z012DC using Tapatalk

    2. 01-17-2017 12:07 PM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by redneckG33K View Post
      For what its worth. I have the genuine cam lock tool and there is still a lot more play in the cams than I would have expected.

      I'm no expert here.

      I think the cam lock tool is more of an idiot proof appliance.

      I don't think anyone here will recommend you do it without the tool.

      You seem to sound fairly confident.

      If it was me and I had a non running car with doubts with respect to the timing of the engine, I would be pulling the timing belt and cam chain and following a best practice guideline for retiming everything.

      Just as a heads up, chain slack should be at the top. Chain should be tight underneath.

      I could see this being possible to do without the cam lock. .... in theory but I'm definitely not a pro and have never have to fully retime an engine so I'm kinda talking out my ass at this point.

      Sent from my ASUS_Z012DC using Tapatalk
      Bah. I read but didn't absorb the point where you said the engine is timed correctly.

      So ignore everything I said about retiming. Everything else still stands.

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    3. Angry Turtle Administrator nater's Avatar
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      01-17-2017 06:56 PM #103
      Not sure if this vid helps you at all but watch and let me know.
      I just put this engine back together and it runs smooth like a top.
      https://youtu.be/SVitvQBf0ao
      I can dig up more pics, I'm sure.
      If you notice, the tensioner is not fully extended at the top, but trust me that changes as you rotate the engine over.
      There is no chain noise, no CEL, nothing.
      Hope it helps.


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    4. 01-18-2017 12:13 PM #104
      My whole point to this thread was to try and explain and get reasonable input on the reasoning behind the cam lock tool. This site and forum is made up of DIYer's, not professional mechanics that can afford to purchase specialty tools. If there is a way to accomplish this without the special tools I would like to know and share with rest of the forum. I still believe that you can replace the cam chain without the tool as long as your cams are timed correctly prior to starting the job. 99% of people just read something and never ask why or really think about how something works..... In this case all you have to do is replace the new chain with the exact amount of links between the sprockets as the one removed. Same concept as this timing belt video. around 3:00 mark they mark the belt....

      https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...44&action=view

    5. 01-18-2017 03:08 PM #105
      @kjr6306 I am a professional mechanic and I've posted information on this thread when it first started, if you don't use the cam locking tool you are going to give yourself a whole heap of trouble, even though the inlet cam moves a tooth out of synch either way with the tool in and yes Mark the cams with a fine scribe to the cam girdle. The exhaust cam adjusters screw is that tight you will break something costing you more money by doing it the bodge job way

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    6. 01-18-2017 03:24 PM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by peterarries View Post
      @kjr6306 I am a professional mechanic and I've posted information on this thread when it first started, if you don't use the cam locking tool you are going to give yourself a whole heap of trouble, even though the inlet cam moves a tooth out of synch either way with the tool in and yes Mark the cams with a fine scribe to the cam girdle. The exhaust cam adjusters screw is that tight you will break something costing you more money by doing it the bodge job way

      Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
      Ah that's a really good point. I doubt you would be able to get that bolt out without the lock in place.

      That bolt is in there. I mean its REALLY in there.


      Also i have read posts where people buy a cheap knock off cam lock tool where the bars that slide into the groves are screwed into the base of the lock tool as opposed to being welded in, and the bars bend inwards as the exhaust cam starts rotating as torque is applied to the bolt. I had to use a huge long extension pipe on the end of a breaker bar to break the bolt free.

      On that note, I'd suggest only the genuine socket as well.

      This is likely a one time job. I'd suggest sourcing genuine tools for this job.

      If you were going to skip on a tool I would say skip the rotating bar and instead rotate engine via the 12 point bolt on the crank pulley. But maybe someone more knowledgeable than I might chime in with a reason not to do that.

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    7. 01-18-2017 03:46 PM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by redneckG33K View Post
      Ah that's a really good point. I doubt you would be able to get that bolt out without the lock in place.

      That bolt is in there. I mean its REALLY in there.


      Also i have read posts where people buy a cheap knock off cam lock tool where the bars that slide into the groves are screwed into the base of the lock tool as opposed to being welded in, and the bars bend inwards as the exhaust cam starts rotating as torque is applied to the bolt. I had to use a huge long extension pipe on the end of a breaker bar to break the bolt free.

      On that note, I'd suggest only the genuine socket as well.

      This is likely a one time job. I'd suggest sourcing genuine tools for this job.

      If you were going to skip on a tool I would say skip the rotating bar and instead rotate engine via the 12 point bolt on the crank pulley. But maybe someone more knowledgeable than I might chime in with a reason not to do that.

      Sent from my ASUS_Z012DC using Tapatalk
      I posted about the cheap tool imploding after I purchased 1 and had it welded so it would stand the force of loosening the screw, and yeah only the correct ribe tool can be used to loosen the screw otherwise it will round off and you will end up having to take cam shaft out and drill it out

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      01-18-2017 07:28 PM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by redneckG33K View Post
      Ah that's a really good point. I doubt you would be able to get that bolt out without the lock in place.

      That bolt is in there. I mean its REALLY in there.
      Yup. I dived in and figured that I would rig up something to work and if not, I'd put it back together and get the cam lock tool. I was thinking that there was a hole in the cam girdle aligned with the slot in the cam and I could use some combination of bushings and pins to do the trick but I realized that it wouldn't work once I saw it. I wound up grinding a flat on a pin and using a vise grip to hold it in the cam slot. It was sketchy as hell and I'm lucky I didn't accidentally drive a valve into a piston. I just wish there was a better option than a cheap tool that probably won't work and a tool that will work but is very expensive and you'll only use it once.
      Quote Originally Posted by MachnickiA3 View Post
      stick that in your "fleshy patch"

    9. Angry Turtle Administrator nater's Avatar
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      01-18-2017 07:57 PM #109
      It's a $60 tool. I wouldn't call that "very expensive". What's very expensive is what could go wrong.


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      01-18-2017 08:22 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by nater View Post
      It's a $60 tool. I wouldn't call that "very expensive". What's very expensive is what could go wrong.
      The $60 one is known to fail... quite easily. The good one is around $120. While "very expensive" may be a bit of an exaggeration, I think that's a bit much to spend on something you are likely to use only once. If I had to do it again I'd probably buy the $60 one and mod it to be much stronger. Or buy the $120 one and sell it after.
      Quote Originally Posted by MachnickiA3 View Post
      stick that in your "fleshy patch"

    11. Angry Turtle Administrator nater's Avatar
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      01-18-2017 08:36 PM #111
      My opinion is different than most I think. $60 or $200...to me the peace of mind is well worth it. As they say, if you wanna play you gotta pay!
      I've seen things go terribly wrong, very quickly. Not just in VW, but across many makes/models.


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    12. 01-18-2017 08:41 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by nater View Post
      My opinion is different than most I think. $60 or $200...to me the peace of mind is well worth it. As they say, if you wanna play you gotta pay!
      I've seen things go terribly wrong, very quickly. Not just in VW, but across many makes/models.


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      I'd say go oem tool and then ebay it - buyer pays shipping

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    13. n00b GTIF's Avatar
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      02-02-2017 02:44 PM #113
      I tried moving the intake advanced one tooth and put it back together and it ran like crap so I put it back to original position. So then I bought a new cam adjuster and put it in and I'm still getting P0016 even though the car runs great. An expert told me it could be an oil pressure problem, so my next step is to install a test gauge where the oil sender is. If the cam adjuster is not getting 40-75 psi it won't behave correctly and sets the code. Problem could be a worn oil pump or too much play in the balance shafts, reducing pressure to the top end. The car has 207K miles, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's it.

      Both times I pulled the cam chain I used only an air impact gun set at 150psi with a modified T-55 bit, and held the intake cam with a small right angle bar (a nail puller). Serious heat with an acetylene torch was required to get the bolt to move. I'm hoping to find the issue with the oil pump so I can clear this code.

    14. Angry Turtle Administrator nater's Avatar
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      02-02-2017 02:58 PM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by GTIF View Post
      I tried moving the intake advanced one tooth and put it back together and it ran like crap so I put it back to original position. So then I bought a new cam adjuster and put it in and I'm still getting P0016 even though the car runs great. An expert told me it could be an oil pressure problem, so my next step is to install a test gauge where the oil sender is. If the cam adjuster is not getting 40-75 psi it won't behave correctly and sets the code. Problem could be a worn oil pump or too much play in the balance shafts, reducing pressure to the top end. The car has 207K miles, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's it.

      Both times I pulled the cam chain I used only an air impact gun set at 150psi with a modified T-55 bit, and held the intake cam with a small right angle bar (a nail puller). Serious heat with an acetylene torch was required to get the bolt to move. I'm hoping to find the issue with the oil pump so I can clear this code.
      Unsure exactly what p0016 is but sounds like a cam adjuster oil seal code, no? Did you carefully analyze those orings??


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      02-02-2017 03:39 PM #115
      Yeah if it's an oil pressure issue that just popped up after you replaced the chain/tensioner look into the cam adjuster oil rings as Nater said. If any of them got damaged during the cam chain/tensioner replacement then there's your problem. Make sure you replace with the revised ones if you do need to replace. There's a good thread on here that you'll find if you google search those rings by name. You better hope it isn't the oil pump because they are a PITA to remove, they're very complex (compared to models prior to 2006) and they are VERY expensive units.
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 02-02-2017 at 03:42 PM.
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    16. 02-12-2017 11:39 AM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by groundshock View Post
      If anyone needs the cam locking tool and the #10 Polydrive socket, LMK. I only plan to do this job once. I'll gladly give someone a fair deal on the Assenmacher/VW tools I have here.
      Do you still have these tools for sale?

    17. 03-07-2017 09:28 AM #117
      I just wanted to post a quick comment for all those saying buy the tool. After quite a bit of research I have discovered that the tool is not a fool proof way to time the cams. There is enough slop in the tool to allow you to be one tooth off. So if you buy the tool, you have the possibility of having to do the job twice along with potentially breaking/stripping the adjuster bolt and possibly breaking the tool.

      I chose to do the job with out purchasing the tool because I had to remove the exhaust cam which required removing the cam cradle anyway. Its a bit longer but much easier and safer. For those of you that say its safer to do it with the tool and spend an extra 60 bucks, think twice.

    18. 03-15-2017 07:47 AM #118
      I completed this job with the locking tool about a year ago. With the locking tool in place, the exhaust cam is locked in place and the intake cam has a three tooth range of rotation. This is by design. If you follow the factory service manual, the play on the intake cam is addressed and in fact used to make the job easier.

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      04-20-2017 11:19 PM #119
      Inside the cam-chain cover area[IMG][/IMG]
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      http://www.philipsautolighting.com/popup_bulbfinder.asp


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      04-21-2017 10:12 AM #121



      Cmshaft adjuster housing seal Set
      Seals the control valve stud to the adjuster unit
      Last edited by ndccpf1; 04-22-2017 at 06:48 AM.
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    21. Member FerVR6's Avatar
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      05-14-2017 11:44 AM #122
      I'm having a hard time getting the cam bolt out. I started to drill it out but It's very hard. I broke some drill tips and the top of one Ez out tip.

      Is any easyer way to remove the bolt?
      Any specific bolt extractor kit?

      Please I need some help..

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      05-14-2017 12:09 PM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by FerVR6 View Post
      I'm having a hard time getting the cam bolt out. I started to drill it out but It's very hard. I broke some drill tips and the top of one Ez out tip.

      Is any easyer way to remove the bolt?
      Any specific bolt extractor kit?

      Please I need some help..

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      Aside from buying better quality bits/EZ outs or softening up the bolt with a torch first I can't think of anything else. I landed myself in the same situation and was able to get it with some basic craftsman EZ outs. It took a lot of patience and you gotta oil the tips and stop drilling periodically let them cool frequently. If you still can't get it you're gonna have to do the job the long way which involes removing the camshaft girdle/cage (the thing that sandwhiched between the head and the valve cover which has like 20-something torx bolts holding it in). There are topics om vortex about it but if you can't get enough info I'll do my best to explain the process. If you wind up going that route make sure you don't cheap out on the sealer used when you resecure the girdle or you'll be doing the job again later and remember the bolts securing the girdle are torque to yield so they need to be replaced. You can get a reusable and significantly stronger set of ARP bolts from integrated engineering for not much more than the cost of the OE bolts so I'd recommend that while you're in there.
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 05-14-2017 at 12:12 PM.
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      05-14-2017 12:11 PM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by FerVR6 View Post
      I'm having a hard time getting the cam bolt out. I started to drill it out but It's very hard. I broke some drill tips and the top of one Ez out tip.

      Is any easyer way to remove the bolt?
      Any specific bolt extractor kit?

      Please I need some help..

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      There are a few tricks to drilling into hard steel. Mostly you have to use a lot of pressure, go slow, and use lube (motor oil will work). Do not just rev the drill up and let it spin on the surface or you will quickly dull the drill bit and get nowhere.

      On tough bolts like this, an extractor may not work. I usually wind up drilling the hole larger until I'm close to the smaller diameter of the bolt and then it usually comes out easily, but sometimes I will need to grind a slot onto the bolt head and use a screwdriver. Since that bolt is down in a hole you can't do that but you might try to jam something in the hole and turn it (any screwdriver, allen wrench, etc. that's a tight fit).

      However... did you break off the ez-out tip and leave it in there? If so, that's possibly hardened tool steel which is a whole other level of drilling. Now you need a carbide tipped drill and more pressure and lube. Possible several carbide tipped drills, as they will wear out quickly no matter what you do. As a former tool & die maker, I gave up on ez-outs a long time ago. Too much trouble and rarely work because they put expansion force are a bolt that's already stuck.
      Quote Originally Posted by MachnickiA3 View Post
      stick that in your "fleshy patch"

    24. Member FerVR6's Avatar
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      05-14-2017 12:53 PM #125
      Thank you for the input guys.. I got a new set of ez tips. The broken one I was able to take it out, so not problem for that. I will follow your the drilling tips.

      Round 2!

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