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MK4 stuck in reverse, clutch won't fully disengage

12K views 19 replies 6 participants last post by  BrawndoVR6 
#1 ·
My 01 GTi (12v VR6) was having some trouble shifting into, and out of, first and reverse so after a bit of research I decided to try adjusting the shift linkage as it seemed like a possible easy fix. After doing that I tried backing it up in the driveway and after a couple of shifts to different gears it ended up getting stuck in reverse. When I pushed in the clutch pedal to let it roll forward I noted that it seemed to be resisting rolling forward despite the steep incline. Once it reached a less steep incline it stopped rolling forward completely, so I'm thinking that it probably won't come out of gear because the clutch won't disengage all the way.

I've done some searching around and from what I've read so far it sounds like it could be a worn or damaged clutch fork, the hydraulic lines, master or slave cylinder, or even a broken clutch plate. What I don't want to do is pull the transmission and clutch, only to find that it was something much easier to fix. I have no experience troubleshooting this sort of thing so I'm looking for advice on what to check for and what order to start trying things (moving from easier/cheaper on to more difficult/expensive.)
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the reply. If anyone else can add any useful information it would be appreciated so I know as much as possible going into this project. For example which other parts should I be sure to replace while I have it all torn apart? So far I've selected:

  • Clutch Kit - Without Flywheel - Assembled by ECS
  • Transmission Input Shaft Seal (I've been noticing oil leaking out where the transmission connects to the clutch housing and have read it can be this seal)
  • Dogbone Mount Bushing Kit With Stretch Bolts (Not sure if I should just buy a while new dogbone or whether is this enough)
  • Clutch Release Lever (I've seen mention that its a good idea to replace this as it can cause problems as it gets old)
  • Clutch Installation Kit (Not sure whether I really need this, I might just wait to see how worn the fasteners actually are)

Fortunately this is not my daily driver so I can take my time and have the luxury of ordering parts AFTER I get it all torn apart. No need to buy stuff I might not need but if it's something that should just always be replaced I'll definitely do it.
 
#5 ·
I wouldn't bother with the dogbone unless you think it's worn or want to upgrade.

If you realize the input seal isn't the cause, I wouldn't mess with it even if you have the seal. Could end up creating a leak and then the tranny needs to come out again. You 100% need a throwout bearing though.

I'd recommend getting a clutch kit that includes a G60 flywheel or at least one with a single mass / solid flywheel.
 
#6 ·
Picking this thread back up because I finally got around to pulling the trans out, now 7 months later.

Photos here:

http://imgur.com/a/QfTjP

Based on what I'd read I was expecting to find some obvious part failure either in the throwout bearing, clutch fork, or possibly a shattered clutch plate. I'm not seeing anything here that looks like an obvious failure to me, but this is my first clutch job on a car so I don't know what I'm looking for. The throwout bearing rotates smoothly without any rough patches. Maybe someone can spot an obvious problem in the photos.

I did notice that much less trans fluid than expected drained out. At first just enough to cover the bottom of the small drain pan, and then about as much poured out once I pulled the trans down out of the engine bay. This is far less than the 2.5qts that it's supposed to hold. I'd previously mentioned that oil was leaking out where the transmission connects to the clutch housing. In the 2nd to last photo you can see where this dark fluid was draining down out of the trans. I'm not sure where it was coming out from.

I also noticed a heavy layer of built up grease/dirt gunk around the inside of the flywheel (visible in photo #6) and the inside of the hole in the clutch plate (visible in photo #3).

Looking for advice on how to proceed. I'd feel better about putting it all back together if I had some idea why the clutch was not operating.
 
#7 ·
If you had tranny oil (or brake fluid from a bad slave cylinder) leak onto the clutch disk, pressure plate and/or flywheel, it will make the clutch slip which can burn and warp the clutch friction disk. If/when the disc gets warped or swollen, it won't completely release. The amount of room for this to work properly is very small, so just a little deflection will cause the clutch to not fully release and probably getting it hot, doing more damage.
I ruined a clutch with a slave cylinder that leaked a bit of brake fluid. Took a while, and several tranny r/r to figure out it wasn't a problem with slave not actuating etc,
Check the friction disk and pp for any warpage or swollen friction material. Compare it carefully to the new parts.
 
#8 ·
I'm not seeing any signs of oil absorption, swelling or damage on the clutch disk but I guess I don't really know what I'm looking for outside of the obvious. Do you see something in the photos that might indicate this happened?

Also I'm still wondering why there was so little fluid in the trans and why most of it leaked out at the seam where the trans attaches to the engine. In the 2nd to last photo you can see a closeup of where it leaked down.

There was less than half a quart, possibly less than a quarter of a quart, of trans fluid that drained out in total. It seems like this could have caused the trans itself to fail, couldn't it?
 
#9 ·
Inside the bellhousing area looks like most everything has got a coating of oil on it. Transmission input shaft seal bad?
Clutch disc looks good shape. Not burnt or swelled. Pp maybe looks blued, but may be reflection off something in the picture.

The 1.8 parts car I bought wouldn't go into first gear, although the rest worked fine. Finally chalked it up to bent shift fork or something else internal. Swapped a different tranny in it. In the process the slave cylinder leaked brake fluid and of course got on the clutch, flywheel, pp. Clutch slipped and quickly burnt and warped the disc, which caused it to not release. It was pretty obvious compared to the condition of yours, which looks good.

Had you tried unhooking the shift cables and just shifting in/out of all the gears by moving the counterweight directly?
 
#10 ·
I was able to shift into gear with some effort and then it eventually got stuck in reverse with the clutch seemingly unable to disengage sufficiently to even roll very far downhill. I had to use quite a bit of downhill momentum to even get it to roll all the way forward into the garage.
 
#11 ·
I agree about the transmission input seal, although it's impossible to make out a clear trail of oil coming out from it because there's a thin film of it everywhere. Is there any reason not to replace the input seal? It's dirt cheap and sounds like an easy replacement.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Just a quick update and bump, hoping to get a few more eyes on this project in case anyone has any advice before I put it all back together. I have the following arriving tomorrow from ECS Tuning...

Transmission Input Shaft Seal ES#: 2561507
Clutch Kit - Without Flywheel ES#: 2083461
2 x Manual Transmission Fluid - 1 Liter ES#: 257578

I'm planning to do the input seal as it seems the most likely cause of the fluid loss. I'll be using this thread as a reference:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=396774

I've been using this thread for the overall teardown and clutch replacement:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...V-VR6-Transmission-Removal-Clutch-Replacement

And again a link to my photos:

http://imgur.com/a/QfTjP
 
#13 ·
One more question: I'm trying to get to the transmission input shaft seal. I've removed the 3 bolts surrounding the input shaft but the metal shroud underneath the 3 bolts seems to be adhered tightly in place. You can see the 3 bolts and metal shroud at the center of this photo:

http://i.imgur.com/vBcbb2O.jpg

Am I on the right track in trying to remove that shroud? If so, how do I loosen it?
 
#18 ·
Just wanted to update this thread for the sake of anyone who might happen upon it needing help...

I replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate, and throwout bearing and put the car back together. After that, the car ran perfectly, smooth shifts in all gears. I suspect it was the pressure plate that was the problem but it could have been the throwout bearing.


I did still have the trans fluid leak so I pulled it back apart. That effort continues on this other thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...sion-input-shaft-seal&p=88146121#post88146121
 
#19 ·
I'd be worried it was the input shaft seal that caused the problem. The fluid possibly got on the clutch, and the fluid being that low in the trans isn't helping anything. Replace that seal before you get it back together, lol. Wish I could help you but I have no experience with the input shaft seal.
 
#20 ·
As mentioned in the thread I linked above, I've already replaced the input shaft seal but it may have been the outer gasket seal for its metal housing that was the source of the leak. There was no oil on the clutch plate. I haven't yet put it all back together but will keep these threads updated with the outcome.
 
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