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    Thread: Urgent: Jerking when in low Gears

    1. 03-21-2015 02:51 PM #1
      Hello all,

      First post here; and in advance thank you all for prior help as I have trolled vwvortex for a long time.

      Model: GTI
      Year: 2009
      Transmission: DSG Automatic
      Mileage: 82,000
      Maintenance: Every single maintenance period has been done directly through the the VW dealership.

      Issue:
      The issue typically happens when the car is in 1st or 2nd gear using the automatic DSG but also happens when using the tiptronic. The car feels very jerky; not bumpy but jerky.
      If I am slightly moving forward it feels like the transmission is spinning then slipping and feels like a massive bump on the road. This will persist pretty much always.
      Few things.
      1) It happens on a cold start if I start driving.
      2) It also happens on a warm/hot start if I start driving.
      3) It happens even if I have driven for a while; it is just not as significant.
      4) It appears to only happen in 1,2,3 gears.
      5) It happens when I am in tiptronic manual mode.
      6) VAGCOM diagnostics show no issues.

      I have had this issue for quite a while; Maybe since around 40k. I have mentioned it to the dealer every single time I have taken the car in and they say there is no issue.
      I have replaced my wheels and tires. I have balanced, rotated and aligned.
      I suspect it is a transmission issue.
      I had just done by 80k a month ago which is the major DSG service hoping this would help - it did not. I had also asked the dealer to inspect the transmission thoroughly because if there is a transmission issue then DSG service is not important.
      They mentioned everything was great.


      Any feedback would be absolutely fantatic.
      Thank you,
      Jason

    2. Member
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      RS '04 R, '10 Jetta TDI
      03-22-2015 08:12 PM #2
      Hmmm. What you're describing sounds an awful lot like my #1 in this thread from a while ago. At that point I hadn't had my Jetta all that long, plus it was the first car I've ever owned that didn't have a "old-school full manual" trans... which at this point in our technological history means a transmission with a clutch pedal that you have to shift yourself (that is, no automated manual, manu-matic, etc). DSG is waaay complicated, but when it works well it's a pretty cool contraption. Still, whenever I drive my R it seems I'm reverting to the opinion that manual is "better." Hey, advantages and disadvantages to everything, I guess.

      Anyway, long story shorter is that I brought up this issue at a few different service calls (most were of the scheduled variety) and was assured that nothing was wrong. So I was thinking "Great! What an effed-up invention!" for a while. Then, last service, I was informed that the issue was taken care of and resolved with a ECM reprogramming that used some newer software. So it was not a trans issue at all. And indeed, the car doesn't do this anymore. Ever. What it felt like mostly was a clutch that slips a little and then grabs.

      Soooo... you might wanna check into that. The big mystery on my end is why it took several times bringing it up for a change to result. And why, before that, I kept hearing that nothing was amiss. I'm figuring either that particular software update didn't exist yet, which seems surprising given that this was last fall and the car was 4.5 years old at that point -OR- my longstanding theory that "success" at dealership service is by nature total hit or miss and depends too much on the tech and the service advisor you just happen to get hooked up with at any particular visit.

      BUT, really, look into that ECM update stuff!
      That's my wife, Carolyn. See the way the handle on her pruning shears matches her gardening clogs? That's not an accident.
      --- Lester Burnham

    3. Member
      Join Date
      Sep 12th, 2005
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      RS '04 R, '10 Jetta TDI
      03-22-2015 08:19 PM #3
      Of course... since mine is a diesel Jetta and you're talking petrol GTI, I could be way off. But who knows.
      That's my wife, Carolyn. See the way the handle on her pruning shears matches her gardening clogs? That's not an accident.
      --- Lester Burnham

    4. 03-22-2015 08:31 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by YikeGrymon View Post
      Hmmm. What you're describing sounds an awful lot like my #1 in this thread from a while ago. At that point I hadn't had my Jetta all that long, plus it was the first car I've ever owned that didn't have a "old-school full manual" trans... which at this point in our technological history means a transmission with a clutch pedal that you have to shift yourself (that is, no automated manual, manu-matic, etc). DSG is waaay complicated, but when it works well it's a pretty cool contraption. Still, whenever I drive my R it seems I'm reverting to the opinion that manual is "better." Hey, advantages and disadvantages to everything, I guess.

      Anyway, long story shorter is that I brought up this issue at a few different service calls (most were of the scheduled variety) and was assured that nothing was wrong. So I was thinking "Great! What an effed-up invention!" for a while. Then, last service, I was informed that the issue was taken care of and resolved with a ECM reprogramming that used some newer software. So it was not a trans issue at all. And indeed, the car doesn't do this anymore. Ever. What it felt like mostly was a clutch that slips a little and then grabs.

      Soooo... you might wanna check into that. The big mystery on my end is why it took several times bringing it up for a change to result. And why, before that, I kept hearing that nothing was amiss. I'm figuring either that particular software update didn't exist yet, which seems surprising given that this was last fall and the car was 4.5 years old at that point -OR- my longstanding theory that "success" at dealership service is by nature total hit or miss and depends too much on the tech and the service advisor you just happen to get hooked up with at any particular visit.

      BUT, really, look into that ECM update stuff!


      Thank you for the reply; I read over your other topic and it definitely seems like the same issue based upon how to described
      did you have to go directly to the dealer for the ECM reprogramming? Was this a free thing or a paid service? And just to confirm ECM is the software/firmware the DSG transmission uses?
      This ultimately would be an amazing solution as transmission issues are terrifying. I am going to start researching this a bunch on my side but your input helps!

    5. 03-22-2015 08:48 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by YikeGrymon View Post
      Of course... since mine is a diesel Jetta and you're talking petrol GTI, I could be way off. But who knows.
      After doing further research I am seeing many topics about ECU/ECM reprogramming for DSG jerkiness.
      So this definitely seems relevant.

      For those that look at this in the future

      ECM = Electronic Control Module

      ECU = Electronic Control Unit

      PCM = Powertrain Control Module

      According to most forums "Stage 2" ECM causes jerkiness. Still researching will update as I come across it.

    6. Member
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      RS '04 R, '10 Jetta TDI
      03-23-2015 01:40 PM #6
      Welcome. I'm pretty sure ECM actually stands for engine control module (i.e., computer). This is the thing that started appearing in new cars in a big way in I wanna say the mid-80s sometime that freaked everyone out for a while, because computers finding their way into more and more stuff was still pretty new and they weren't as tested or reliable as they are now. ("Computer in my car! Oh no!") People were convinced that if the thing just "went" completely, they'd be in for a huge and expensive repair. Actually sometimes that's exactly how it happened; I remember hearing horror stories. But you are correct: Transmission issues are terrifying. Especially now. Well, it's ALL terrifying now, or it can be, because everything is SO freekin compex.

      I remember this clearly because the first car I ever bought new was a 1986 Honda CRX (the Si version, which was fuel injected, and fuel injection was still the exception also). I was a little wigged out about this as well, because the big new neato wowie ECM was responsible for controlling a mess of things that used to be set by mechanical methods, like screws being adjusted and/or vacuum lines and other mechanical goings-on. Think choke cable, carburetor rich/lean screw, idle-adjust screw, ignition timing and valve timing that used to be set to accommodate the "average" or typical circumstances, all that (and thus were not set particularly well during conditions other than typical). The ECM monitors a mess of conditions that constantly change and adjusts all this stuff electronically now, all the time. (If I'm oversimplifying this or have it not quite right, someone please weigh in.) This is sorta why a "tune-up" is old-school terminology now: most of the time once electronic stuff is in order it rarely goes out of order. And if it does, part of what else it does is fix itself. That's why many problems appear for a while and then seem to sort themselves out now, because they actually do. It's good and bad. Good for performance, efficiency, pollution levels, general drivability, all that. Bad because it's pretty seriously complicated. Prolly other reasons it's bad, also, but I can't think of any to name right now.

      Anyway, intuitively one would think that this doesn't have much to do with what the transmission's doing. Or that's how it seemed to me. But in my earlier thread I said something about how a fuel-delivery issue might result in the same kind of behavior, so maybe that's exactly what it was, dunno. No spark in a TDI of course, so it wasn't that aspect of it. Could've been valve timing, something going on with how engine and trans communicate. Probably dozens of different things that it could have been, they didn't get into specifics with me. But the DSG has its own software, which gets outta whack sometimes as well. The dealer did tell me it was ECM software though. It was dealership service, yeah. The car's 5yr/60K powertrain warranty still has a few months on it so it was covered last fall, but I remember the guy I dealt with telling me that it would have been about a $70-80 issue without that, so it's not crazy expensive if it's on you.

      One other thing to consider is that your car is a 2009, which is all MkV. I remember when I acquired said Jetta that they told me the 2010 cars (some? many? most? can't remember) had MkVI electronics in them, which were being "phased in" a model year early (identifiable by white-on-black display in the center of the console, rather than the orange-on-dark-grey that was just before that). Meaning that officially or whatever, MkVI started with 2011 cars. SO: your MkV electronics aren't the same as mine. Well some of them might be but then again they might not be. I'm certainly not the one to call that. My car is technically a MkV except for that. Like for everything else (suspension, what have you) it's considered a MkV. This threw me for a while early on. I think it got kinda nerve-wracking when no one could really tell me WHICH Euro headlamp switch I needed when I wanted to make that change (first thing I did, almost immediately). That was 2+ years ago now though so beyond that I don't remember what else was sort of intimidating. I get it now though. And I'm done doing anything to this car anyway, although I haven't really done that much to it to begin with, just some minor suspension tweaking and beyond that it's pretty much cosmetic. But that MkV vs. MkVI part might be important. Like my issue with MkVI electronics might not have anything to do with yours and MkV electronics.

      Bla bla bla. Okay, enough from me.

      Good luck!
      That's my wife, Carolyn. See the way the handle on her pruning shears matches her gardening clogs? That's not an accident.
      --- Lester Burnham

    7. 03-23-2015 02:09 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by YikeGrymon View Post
      Welcome. I'm pretty sure ECM actually stands for engine control module (i.e., computer). This is the thing that started appearing in new cars in a big way in I wanna say the mid-80s sometime that freaked everyone out for a while, because computers finding their way into more and more stuff was still pretty new and they weren't as tested or reliable as they are now. ("Computer in my car! Oh no!") People were convinced that if the thing just "went" completely, they'd be in for a huge and expensive repair. Actually sometimes that's exactly how it happened; I remember hearing horror stories. But you are correct: Transmission issues are terrifying. Especially now. Well, it's ALL terrifying now, or it can be, because everything is SO freekin compex.

      I remember this clearly because the first car I ever bought new was a 1986 Honda CRX (the Si version, which was fuel injected, and fuel injection was still the exception also). I was a little wigged out about this as well, because the big new neato wowie ECM was responsible for controlling a mess of things that used to be set by mechanical methods, like screws being adjusted and/or vacuum lines and other mechanical goings-on. Think choke cable, carburetor rich/lean screw, idle-adjust screw, ignition timing and valve timing that used to be set to accommodate the "average" or typical circumstances, all that (and thus were not set particularly well during conditions other than typical). The ECM monitors a mess of conditions that constantly change and adjusts all this stuff electronically now, all the time. (If I'm oversimplifying this or have it not quite right, someone please weigh in.) This is sorta why a "tune-up" is old-school terminology now: most of the time once electronic stuff is in order it rarely goes out of order. And if it does, part of what else it does is fix itself. That's why many problems appear for a while and then seem to sort themselves out now, because they actually do. It's good and bad. Good for performance, efficiency, pollution levels, general drivability, all that. Bad because it's pretty seriously complicated. Prolly other reasons it's bad, also, but I can't think of any to name right now.

      Anyway, intuitively one would think that this doesn't have much to do with what the transmission's doing. Or that's how it seemed to me. But in my earlier thread I said something about how a fuel-delivery issue might result in the same kind of behavior, so maybe that's exactly what it was, dunno. No spark in a TDI of course, so it wasn't that aspect of it. Could've been valve timing, something going on with how engine and trans communicate. Probably dozens of different things that it could have been, they didn't get into specifics with me. But the DSG has its own software, which gets outta whack sometimes as well. The dealer did tell me it was ECM software though. It was dealership service, yeah. The car's 5yr/60K powertrain warranty still has a few months on it so it was covered last fall, but I remember the guy I dealt with telling me that it would have been about a $70-80 issue without that, so it's not crazy expensive if it's on you.

      One other thing to consider is that your car is a 2009, which is all MkV. I remember when I acquired said Jetta that they told me the 2010 cars (some? many? most? can't remember) had MkVI electronics in them, which were being "phased in" a model year early (identifiable by white-on-black display in the center of the console, rather than the orange-on-dark-grey that was just before that). Meaning that officially or whatever, MkVI started with 2011 cars. SO: your MkV electronics aren't the same as mine. Well some of them might be but then again they might not be. I'm certainly not the one to call that. My car is technically a MkV except for that. Like for everything else (suspension, what have you) it's considered a MkV. This threw me for a while early on. I think it got kinda nerve-wracking when no one could really tell me WHICH Euro headlamp switch I needed when I wanted to make that change (first thing I did, almost immediately). That was 2+ years ago now though so beyond that I don't remember what else was sort of intimidating. I get it now though. And I'm done doing anything to this car anyway, although I haven't really done that much to it to begin with, just some minor suspension tweaking and beyond that it's pretty much cosmetic. But that MkV vs. MkVI part might be important. Like my issue with MkVI electronics might not have anything to do with yours and MkV electronics.

      Bla bla bla. Okay, enough from me.

      Good luck!
      Thank you,

      I will contact the dealer and mention these things to them and see if it is checked when the service intervals are done; if not ill find out if they can do it and how much and report back with results for future VWVORTEX users can find the answer.

    8. 04-20-2015 01:00 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by exoblacky View Post
      After doing further research I am seeing many topics about ECU/ECM reprogramming for DSG jerkiness.
      So this definitely seems relevant.

      For those that look at this in the future

      ECM = Electronic Control Module

      ECU = Electronic Control Unit

      PCM = Powertrain Control Module

      According to most forums "Stage 2" ECM causes jerkiness. Still researching will update as I come across it.
      ECU = Emissions Control Unit, all the other terms (except TCM/PCM) were made up by other people.
      Just a FYI...

    9. 05-04-2015 07:50 PM #9
      Hello All,

      Sorry for the late response. My issue was caused by carbon buildup. Apparently the newer audi/vw/bmw cars with direct injected fuel systems are prone to this issue. The gas no longer sprays on the valves so all of the burn up just builds up around the valves and causes your pistons to misfire. This misfire caused major loss of power and combustion in low gears so when accelerating and moving forward it would jerk and stumble. The mechanic just went in there and cleaned it out. I was charged about $500 on 2015 in San Diego.

      Good luck to the rest of you.

      Jason

    10. 05-11-2015 05:39 PM #10
      Mine is jerky when downshifting too, lower gears. Sometimes it feels
      like it doesn't know what gear to go into from 3rd to 2nd, and it gets
      a double bump sometimes. Depends how fast or slow I come to a stop
      as well, but it is not carbon buildup related. Not the torque mount
      bushing either, I stiffened that up. Changed the fluid, may do another
      one before the next service interval, I let it go way too long for the
      first one.

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