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    Thread: Master cylinder upgrade after BBK install

    1. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      08-27-2016 07:51 PM #1
      So I recently installed a 17z BBK on my mk6 GTI, pedal now feels pretty awful. Power bled the entire system, including the rears. So there is absolutely no air in the system what so ever. However, I have noticed that giving them a slight pump improves the pedal immensely.

      I went ahead and ordered this to help to compensate for this problem of mine:

      http://www.hstuning.com/product_info...oducts_id=4463

      This is coming in the mail Monday, and it'll be going on the same day. I guess it's the same master cylinder as the TT RS and RS3 master cylinder, part number 8J1611021E.

      I guess I'm just curious in asking if anyone else has had the same "issue" that I'm having now and/or if they upgraded their master cylinder for BBKs, or if anyone else here has used this product from HSTuning.

      And before the negative comments start flying about the the 17z upgrade, I know. I did my research. I know what I was/am in for. Again, just curious to know if anyone has upgraded their master to compensate for BBKs, not to be learned and scolded about 17z's.

      Here's a picture just because I'm proud of the setup lol.




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    2. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      08-29-2016 08:06 PM #2
      Am I the only one that feels like all the trolls on this website drove off all the members that are actually helpful?

      Anyways, installed the RS3 master cylinder earlier today, pedal is much better...who would have guessed...

      So for anyone that gives a flying ****, the RS3/TTRS master cylinder is a definite MUST for the 17z caliper upgrade.


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    3. 08-29-2016 08:15 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by MkIII2ohslow View Post
      Am I the only one that feels like all the trolls on this website drove off all the members that are actually helpful?

      Anyways, installed the RS3 master cylinder earlier today, pedal is much better...who would have guessed...

      So for anyone that gives a flying ****, the RS3/TTRS master cylinder is a definite MUST for the 17z caliper upgrade.


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      Was there any way to tell if there was just too much wear/age on your original master cylinder? I haven't actually done anything to brakes, so no direct experience, but it seems strange for you to have had this problem. Perhaps it was about to go regardless?

    4. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      08-30-2016 12:56 PM #4
      The car has about 23k on it, the master cylinder being worn is highly unlikely. Fact of the matter is that the larger 17z 6 piston calipers just demanded way more fluid than the stock master cylinder could supply.


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    5. 08-30-2016 01:37 PM #5
      You are right with what you did. The 17z is an affordable BBK but the pedal feel does degrade by a lot due to extra volume the bigger calipers have, and like you did, the only way around this is upgrading the master cylinder which isn't cheap.

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      08-30-2016 02:13 PM #6
      I just finished the 18z on my car and while I havent driven the car yet on the road, I have moved it around a bunch and what not. I did notice it seems to take a bit more travel in the pedal, and would imagine the 17z are worse as they have larger pistons and require even more fluid.
      ***from my vortex observations I have come to the conclusion that post count has no direct effect on automotive knowledge, or even common sense for that matter***

    7. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      08-30-2016 02:29 PM #7
      Trust me, spend the $400 now and get the master cylinder from HStuning. Made the upgrade all that much more worth it. If you don't, I promise you that you'll be upset you didn't.

      You can pick up the same master cylinder from ECS for $375, but the HStuning MC comes as a kit. All the hardware was included for the install and made installation a breeze. Don't bother with the "modified" res for the extra $150. All you have to do it drill out the one mounting clip on the res a little bigger. You'll see what I mean when you start the install. Also, I'd highly recommend purchasing a power bleeder for the install. Made the install that much easier, no need to bench bleed the master if you use a power bleeder.


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      08-30-2016 02:55 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by MkIII2ohslow View Post
      Trust me, spend the $400 now and get the master cylinder from HStuning. Made the upgrade all that much more worth it. If you don't, I promise you that you'll be upset you didn't.

      You can pick up the same master cylinder from ECS for $375, but the HStuning MC comes as a kit. All the hardware was included for the install and made installation a breeze. Don't bother with the "modified" res for the extra $150. All you have to do it drill out the one mounting clip on the res a little bigger. You'll see what I mean when you start the install. Also, I'd highly recommend purchasing a power bleeder for the install. Made the install that much easier, no need to bench bleed the master if you use a power bleeder.


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      Gotcha. I totally missed your post that you changed it. Thats awesome it makes that much of a difference. Ive seen it discussed before but seemed like no one pulled the trigger.
      ***from my vortex observations I have come to the conclusion that post count has no direct effect on automotive knowledge, or even common sense for that matter***

    9. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      08-30-2016 07:29 PM #9
      That's because all the people that are talking **** about the 6 pot caliper upgrades and MC upgrades are all full of ****. Because they are basing everything they "know" off of **** they read on forums, posted by people that don't actually know what they're talking about. It's the people like us that are actually trying these things with trial and error to get the best possible results. Not to be cocky or anything, but that's usually how it goes. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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    10. 08-31-2016 12:33 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by MkIII2ohslow View Post
      That's because all the people that are talking **** about the 6 pot caliper upgrades and MC upgrades are all full of ****. Because they are basing everything they "know" off of **** they read on forums, posted by people that don't actually know what they're talking about. It's the people like us that are actually trying these things with trial and error to get the best possible results. Not to be cocky or anything, but that's usually how it goes. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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      Truer words have not been spoken. I usually mind myself as my cars progress, I'll post occasional pictures, maybe the occasional install but avoid build threads and things of that nature. My selections and purchases are not up for public scrutiny as I, quite frankly, give 2 ****s about the opinions of strangers.

      I will be doing my own 17Z install here soon once I decide on a color/coating for my calipers. (Also trying to find a 2 piece rotor option other than Racing Brake so if anyone has a lead on a manufacturer let me know). I have noticed since I bought my car last year the pedal feel is awful. I power bled the entire system with fresh fluid and nothing changed. I recently purchased the Spulen silicone booster hose to no avail which means I'll be replacing the vacuum pump shortly as my local VW parts counter actually keeps them in stock. After speaking with a service tech he confirmed the vacuum pumps were not on the water pump level of failure, but common enough they move a unit or two every couple of weeks. So he would not be surprised if the pump was leaking vacuum. It's good to know the TT master helped with the pedal feel. I will add that to my next round of purchases.

      Really digging the RPF's. I run them on my Focus ST as well as my old A4. Will be getting a set for the GTI also although I'll be going gold in a 5x114 fitment as the 5x112 offered are awful in regards to offset and width. I would love to run the 9's, but at a +35 offset the fitment would not work...that and brake clearance is non existent on the flat face wheels.

    11. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      08-31-2016 05:30 PM #11
      My RPF1's are 18x8 et35 5x112, in my opinion, the fitment is perfect all around with about -1.2 camber in the rear.

      As far as I know, racing brake is the only company that makes 2 piece rotors for this swap. I hate the amount of weight that's been added to the front of the car. Steering is heavier, acceleration isn't as good, and the pedal feel isn't really ideal for me.

      Actually considering selling the setup and running the Boxster S setup with 2 piece B5 S4 rotors. Not sure, we'll see.


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    12. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      09-01-2016 10:23 AM #12
      Was messing around with the scan tools here at work today, looks like there's a test plan to set basic settings on the brakes/bleed the ABS pump. Gonna try this later today and see what happens. Hopefully a better bias and a better pedal.


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      09-03-2016 04:10 AM #13
      Nice work! Can you provide me with the part number of your original master cylinder? I must admit I am conflicted. Some say the master cylinder isn't required and they just get accustomed to the new pedal travel. How long did it take for you to do this upgrade?

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      09-03-2016 04:11 AM #14
      Should it matter if the car is LHD or RHD?

    15. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      09-03-2016 07:50 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Rawcpoppa View Post
      Nice work! Can you provide me with the part number of your original master cylinder? I must admit I am conflicted. Some say the master cylinder isn't required and they just get accustomed to the new pedal travel. How long did it take for you to do this upgrade?
      Upgrade took maybe 2 hours start to finish? I'll have to look into the part number of the original. And yes is absolutely matters for RHD and LHD. There is a different part number between the LHD and RHD master cylinder.


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      09-03-2016 08:30 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by MkIII2ohslow View Post
      Upgrade took maybe 2 hours start to finish? I'll have to look into the part number of the original. And yes is absolutely matters for RHD and LHD. There is a different part number between the LHD and RHD master cylinder.


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      I have a RHD mk6 Jetta. It has the same size brakes as a mk6 GLI in the US which is like your GTI so I expect the same pedal issue. I wonder if European spec cars have a different sized master cylinder when compared to the US versions.

      Do you have a build thread for the 17z or can I ask here what rotors you went with etc?

    17. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      09-03-2016 11:11 AM #17
      There is a different master cylinder part number for the RHD vehicles because of the different booster, size should be the same. Part number for the RHD TTRS master cylinder is 8J2611021F. For the master cylinder upgrade, you'll also need to buy the gasket for the master to the booster, the grommets for the res that fit your original master cylinder, as well and the pin that holds the res to the MC.

      Parts list for the 17z upgrade includes:

      17z brembo calipers from a Touareg

      330mm brake pads (single pin) for from a Touareg (I went with Hawk HPS pads)

      2008 Mercedes Benz ML350 330mm rotors (I went with stoptech slotted rotors)

      2004 VW R32 front brake hoses (I went with stainless lines from ECStuning)

      65mm-67mm hubcentric rings for the rotors (eBay)

      And mounting bolts to bolt the caliper to the spindle (I believe I got them from racingbrake.com or something)


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      Last edited by MkIII2ohslow; 09-03-2016 at 11:14 AM.

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      09-03-2016 11:15 AM #18
      Thanks again. I went with stoptech slotted and cross drilled ml350 rotor. Did you have to do any grinding of anything to prevent rubbing?

      I pretty much have everything else you mentioned except the pads and I got stainless steel lines from stoptech. Really looking forward to this mod.

      The rhd master cylinder seems to be cheaper.

    19. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      09-03-2016 02:27 PM #19
      I haven't yet, but I'll have to grind a little bit off either the calipers or the control arms. They touch at full lock.


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      06-18-2017 08:53 AM #20
      Did you eventually install the RS3 Brake Booster or are you still running OEM GTI Brake Booster? I have a 2013 GLI and I am running the same exact setup as you are, 17Z Calipers in the front and I also am running the same size RPF1s. I contacted a HS Tuning rep this week and they told me the Master Cylinder doesn't fit with the OEM GLI Brake Booster. So they quoted my 700 dollars for the Master Cylinder and Brake Booster from an RS3. How much of a difference do you feel in the Brake petal? I am involved with the SCCA and have been doing their track events. They wheels and brakes are incredible for the track but I just want that extra feel in the petal.

    21. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      06-18-2017 09:17 AM #21
      The rs3 master cylinder bolted straight up to my GTI brake booster, all I had to do was modify the res a little bit (drilling one of the holes for the retainer clips a bit larger). I'm not sure if the GLI brake booster differs from the GTI brake booster, so I can't help you there. However I'm no longer running the 17z calipers on my GTI, I switched to Porsche Boxster calipers in the front and r32 brakes in the rear.








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      06-18-2017 09:47 AM #22
      Thanks for the quick response, glad good people are still on here! Damn that setup looks great. I'm building my bbk for the rear now. I have the dual caliper bracket so all I need is the parking brake caliper and I'll be done. And so I'm going to have to be the guinea pig on this one. And if you had to guess would you say that the GTI Brake Booster could and would bolt up and work on the GLI. I know you wouldn't know because you don't need to worry about it but if you had to guess what do you think. Thanks


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    23. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      06-18-2017 04:15 PM #23
      I would honestly guess, and only guess, that the rs3 master cylinder would bolt up to your booster. I can't see there being a huge, if any difference between the two.

      Be sure to post pictures of your brake setup!! I thought about doing the dual caliper setup in the rear as well, and running the larger boxster s calipers/b5 s4 rotors in the front, but decided that a light weight setup was more important to me. Going from the stock GTI setup with steel knuckles to the boxster calipers/2 piece rotors/Passat aluminum knuckles, I saved close to 15lbs a side.


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      06-19-2017 02:04 PM #24
      Thank you for your honest guess haha once I start to get things moving I'll pull the trigger on the RS3 Master Cylinder and attempt to bolt it to my Brake Booster (which HS Tuning told me that it wouldn't work) I'll call a VW parts department at a dealership and hope I get lucky with the person I'm talking to. If it doesn't work then I'll be buying the RS3 Cylinder and Booster.

      When it is all done I will definitely post pictures of my progress and the final product. I was thinking about going with the smaller brakes better for weight but then I realized I could put 6-piston Porsche brakes on a Jetta and I was like.... why not haha and for the rear I haven't seen maybe more than 2 people who are currently running the dual caliper setup so I want to do it for it's functionality and to be different.

      Thanks for your help I'll keep you posted!!


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    25. Member MkIII2ohslow's Avatar
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      06-19-2017 07:17 PM #25
      It just occurred to me that I'm a VW tech at a VW dealership lol. PM me your vin and I'll cross mine and yours to see if there is a part number difference between the boosters....that should give you a pretty good answer!


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