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    View Poll Results: Do you believe you should be liable for a ticket if you leave your car idling in your driveway?

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    Thread: Do you believe you should be liable for a ticket if you leave your car idling in your driveway?

    1. Member H.E. Pennypacker's Avatar
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      01-11-2017 02:02 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      Good thing your car pollutes totally different air from that air in your neighbor's driveway! Also, it's good that the CO2 from your car only goes into your own personal atmosphere, and not Earth's atmosphere.
      That's such a lame excuse. Ever had to drive back to the office because you forgot something? Oh my god I can't believe you'd be so selfish. That's my air too!

      You forgot your lunch today. Do you A: pollute into my atmosphere more to drive to the store, B: DoorDash food and have someone else pollute into my air to your request, or C: starve. I hope you'll starve before you hurt Earths atmosphere.

      Back on topic, I don't personally warm up cars in California because I have no need to. At most in Northern AZ I would warm up my 16V if I needed the defroster to work after getting the snow off the windshield.

      I wouldn't personally leave any of my cars running and unattended (LEAF was an exception; I'd used the mobile app to turn it on to preheat or cool it, but it shuts off automatically when the door is opened), so I don't take issue with the ticket if that's the reason why it was issued. It's also an ineffective way to warm a car up, so I won't do it unless like I said above you need some time to defrost a stubborn windshield.
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    3. Member sirswank!'s Avatar
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      01-11-2017 02:13 PM #28
      winter is here, so I need to idle the car before I can drive it to warm it up. so, when it's 10 degrees out and your windshield is covered in ice, what is the best method for clearing it? freeze outside with a plastic scraper? freeze in the car using the washer fluid? wait in the house with a cup of coffee? no idle laws here, so I know which one I'm choosing. deal with it.
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      01-11-2017 02:14 PM #29
      The problem arises from so many stolen cars. City of Atlanta averages over 100 cars stolen every month. Leaving the car running makes it easy for the crooks. The problem is that it's easier to ticket a citizen than it is to car chase a stolen car then a foot chase after they crash followed with a use of force. Media and liberals blame the cops for the car chase. Media and liberals blame the cops for using force to arrest the violent criminals. Atlanta cops can't even chase a stolen car unless it was from a recent car jacking by a armed person. If your car gets stolen in Atlanta the cops are instructed to not even follow it.

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      01-11-2017 03:08 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      That's such a lame excuse. Ever had to drive back to the office because you forgot something? Oh my god I can't believe you'd be so selfish. That's my air too!

      You forgot your lunch today. Do you A: pollute into my atmosphere more to drive to the store, B: DoorDash food and have someone else pollute into my air to your request, or C: starve. I hope you'll starve before you hurt Earths atmosphere.

      Back on topic, I don't personally warm up cars in California because I have no need to. At most in Northern AZ I would warm up my 16V if I needed the defroster to work after getting the snow off the windshield.

      I wouldn't personally leave any of my cars running and unattended (LEAF was an exception; I'd used the mobile app to turn it on to preheat or cool it, but it shuts off automatically when the door is opened), so I don't take issue with the ticket if that's the reason why it was issued. It's also an ineffective way to warm a car up, so I won't do it unless like I said above you need some time to defrost a stubborn windshield.

      I agree but I don't believe this law was made with environmental impact in-mind. From what I can find they where formed to stop car thefts

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      01-11-2017 03:11 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      Good thing your car pollutes totally different air from that air in your neighbor's driveway! Also, it's good that the CO2 from your car only goes into your own personal atmosphere, and not Earth's atmosphere.
      Don't be daft. One neighbor is a retired guy that never leaves the house. The other is a single woman that idles her car for far longer than I would bother. When she comes home from work she is always on the phone and will sit in her car and talk for sometimes 20-30 mins while the car idles regardless of the time of year.

      All of my cars have cats and would pass emissions easily, if we had such a thing. Not to mention all of the light duty diesel trucks, be it your average contractor truck or your brodozer type. A couple 4 bangers and small 6 isn't anything worth batting an eye at.

      Here's the thing:

      Phoenix avg. Jan low temp: 43
      Green Bay avg. Jan. low temp: 9

      I don't care what you think about my car idling for 2-5 mins while I scrape ice and the defroster attempts to function. You can't tell me that people in your area don't do the exact same thing in summer while waiting for the car to "cool down."
      To be fair I'd be more concerned about off highway emissions in my area, as it's very industrialized in addition to being historically very fertile farming land. Law enforcement leave their vehicles running 24/7/365. Taxis and Uber etc do too.

      At what point do we decide who can do this and who can't? And where?
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      01-11-2017 03:25 PM #32
      Wow, I cant believe how many people are vehemently for massive fines for idling an engine for more than a few minutes Clearly they've never experienced real cold, that turns your transmission and clutch fluid into cement. And many of the cars I've owned never even had a spare key, and I don't live in a sketchy-ass area so my car is never locked unless I'm parked in Sheboygan.

      FYI, I rarely wait more than 15 seconds, but if I have an opportunity I'll let it warm up for a minute or two.
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    8. Member Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      01-11-2017 03:33 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by 03gli401k View Post
      I agree but I don't believe this law was made with environmental impact in-mind. From what I can find they where formed to stop car thefts
      Oh I know. I was being facetious towards the post I quoted.
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      Quote Originally Posted by bothhandsplease View Post
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    9. Member Dravenport's Avatar
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      01-11-2017 03:35 PM #34
      it doesn't really matter what we think, it matters what the law in our area is
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      01-11-2017 03:43 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumGLS View Post
      The ticket I have seen for it recently happened locally. It wasn't because he was idling his car in his driveway but because he was doing so with it unlocked and unattended.
      So is it ok for a cop to search a car on private property?
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    11. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      01-11-2017 03:50 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Tdi13golf View Post
      The problem arises from so many stolen cars. City of Atlanta averages over 100 cars stolen every month. Leaving the car running makes it easy for the crooks. The problem is that it's easier to ticket a citizen than it is to car chase a stolen car then a foot chase after they crash followed with a use of force. Media and liberals blame the cops for the car chase. Media and liberals blame the cops for using force to arrest the violent criminals. Atlanta cops can't even chase a stolen car unless it was from a recent car jacking by a armed person. If your car gets stolen in Atlanta the cops are instructed to not even follow it.
      thats some great logic.

      we can't catch the crooks, so lets penalize law abiding citizens by creating a law to make normal, non-issue behaviors illegal and then fine them.
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      01-11-2017 03:59 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Silly_me View Post
      So is it ok for a cop to search a car on private property?
      I am sure there is no restriction on looking inside through the windows and/or confirming if it is locked or not.

    13. 01-11-2017 04:00 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by GoHomePossum View Post
      That's why you idle it in your garage instead
      Embarrassed to admit but I've let my car idle in the garage for up to a couple of minutes. To top it off I live in the GA so in comparison it doesn't get very cold.
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      01-11-2017 04:00 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Clearly they've never experienced real cold
      Or we have experienced real cold and made the smart decision to move.
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      01-11-2017 04:03 PM #40
      A few minutes? No problem.

      Neighbors who idle their modded borla lifted Truck & SUV exhaust for hours at midnight to 3am ona Tuesday are inconsiderate. Did I mention their head lights are always on? The kid has no clothes for school the next day, but Mommy & Daddy have the latest trucks in their rental house.

      I'd much rather see distracted driving aka cell phone holders ticketed. Never thought I'd agree to that, but that time has come.

    16. Senior Member patrikman's Avatar
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      01-11-2017 04:04 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by dunhamjr View Post
      thats some great logic.

      we can't catch the crooks, so lets penalize law abiding citizens by creating a law to make normal, non-issue behaviors illegal and then fine them.
      More importantly, are we being responsible taxpayers and homeowners by asking public servants to come onto private property and fine us in exchange for hopefully deterring crime? Who gives them the right to discern a locked running car from unlocked running car on private property? A stealable or nonstealable running car on private property?

      As a citizen I'm not comfortable with any of those scenarios, there are bigger fish to fry with an increasingly tighter budget for man hours, training, and upgrading equipment.
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      01-11-2017 04:16 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      More importantly, are we being responsible taxpayers and homeowners by asking public servants to come onto private property and fine us in exchange for hopefully deterring crime? Who gives them the right to discern a locked running car from unlocked running car on private property? A stealable or nonstealable running car on private property?

      As a citizen I'm not comfortable with any of those scenarios, there are bigger fish to fry with an increasingly tighter budget for man hours, training, and upgrading equipment.
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      01-11-2017 04:16 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Claff View Post
      I don't think you can draw any parallels between idling your Mazda3 in your driveway and idling tractor-trailers all night in a highway rest stop, which is what that graphic posted above relates to.

      In nearby PG county here (DC 'burbs) I remember a law enacted to prevent warming up of cars in driveways because it was leading to car theft.

      I don't think there is such a law in my county. I'll fire up the remote start on my truck on cold mornings, but don't make a habit of using that.
      Curious if you leave your house unlocked while not inside if they would ticket you because it leads to burglaries ?

      ... laws ... because someone else might do something bad
      I honestly can't understand this.
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    19. Member 03gli401k's Avatar
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      01-11-2017 04:39 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Oh I know. I was being facetious towards the post I quoted.
      No I got that, I was just agreeing with you

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      01-11-2017 04:39 PM #45
      I do not think it should be legal (due to pollution) and it is not legal here either.

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      01-11-2017 04:52 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by GTijoejoe View Post
      Curious if you leave your house unlocked while not inside if they would ticket you because it leads to burglaries ?

      ... laws ... because someone else might do something bad
      I honestly can't understand this.
      As some one who lives in PG County you can leave your vehicle idling in your driveway, parking lot or street for up to 5 minutes. The EPA did/does have their hands in writing these laws. When idling not at operaring temp, open loop more emissions blah blah blah. Most remote starts that I have encountered will cut off before 5 min. Most cops don't care about it. Auto theft was a problem before remote starts were as prevalent as they are today. It was just an excuse given by lawmakers to help get people on board with the law. Total BS, can't give a ticket unless they can prove it was idling for more than the law permits. Like cop was watching the whole time and then let your car get stolen. But that is another discussion.🍺

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    22. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      01-11-2017 05:02 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Galrot View Post
      I do not think it should be legal (due to pollution) and it is not legal here either.
      as mentioned above.

      wouldnt it also be polluting the exact same amount to just sit in the car with it running?
      what about the pollution caused by forgetting something and needing to make multiple trips?
      or the pollution caused by simply going to the store 3 times per week instead of once?

      this fine ISNT about the pollution prevention in pretty much all instances (obviously there are always some small amount of exceptions).

      if they honestly want to prevent pollution then they need to ban ICE vehicles completely. the amount of pollution from unattended idling cars is much smaller than the overall ICE pollution numbers no matter what time frame or location you select.
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    23. 01-11-2017 05:08 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Wow, I cant believe how many people are vehemently for massive fines for idling an engine for more than a few minutes Clearly they've never experienced real cold, that turns your transmission and clutch fluid into cement. And many of the cars I've owned never even had a spare key, and I don't live in a sketchy-ass area so my car is never locked unless I'm parked in Sheboygan.

      FYI, I rarely wait more than 15 seconds, but if I have an opportunity I'll let it warm up for a minute or two.
      I'm from Wisconsin. I still don't warm the car up. I drive gently until it warms up, but I still drive.

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      01-11-2017 05:12 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by dunhamjr View Post
      as mentioned above.

      wouldnt it also be polluting the exact same amount to just sit in the car with it running?
      what about the pollution caused by forgetting something and needing to make multiple trips?
      or the pollution caused by simply going to the store 3 times per week instead of once?

      this fine ISNT about the pollution prevention in pretty much all instances (obviously there are always some small amount of exceptions).

      if they honestly want to prevent pollution then they need to ban ICE vehicles completely. the amount of pollution from unattended idling cars is much smaller than the overall ICE pollution numbers no matter what time frame or location you select.
      We really can't generalize as every jurisdiction's different, but the ones I'm familiar with make no distinction from idling unattended versus idling with an occupant. It's the idling that is ticketed.

    25. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      01-11-2017 05:17 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      We really can't generalize as every jurisdiction's different, but the ones I'm familiar with make no distinction from idling unattended versus idling with an occupant. It's the idling that is ticketed.
      people above have stated above that they have seen in their areas that its unattended idling, not just idling.

      so both scenarios are possible.
      and in both scenarios it's stupid to get fined for it.

      if the issue is with the pollution, this is not the fix.
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