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    Thread: In Search of the German Motorcycle Equivalent of the NA Miata

    1. Member lowredcabrio's Avatar
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      02-16-2017 04:25 PM #1
      TLDR: Title says it all.
      Now the long version:

      Hey TCL, it's been a while.

      This past October I moved my life to Germany. I'm a dual citizen, (Canada/Germany) and I wasn't finding the work/living situation I was looking for in Canada, so I picked up and tried something new. Found a great job and I'll hopefully be here a while now!

      I've been a youngtimer guy (German term for E30, NA Miata etc.. also conveniently my last two cars) for the last while and loved it. I always owned a second vehicle just in case (youngtimer Dakota ) and liked turning wrenches in my free time. I had a feeling that wasn't going to be the case in Germany as I probably won't get a garage, and I don't have much desire to accumulate a whole new set of tools on this side of the world. Originally I was thinking I'd pick up a funish newer car (E46 320d) but my budget just couldn't keep up with the crap Canadian dollar against the Euro. I ended up with a Renault Megane 1.9D that's been great to me at a price I had to take. That said, my desire for something fun to drive and turn wrenches on hasn't diminished. Given the comparatively awesome weather here, great driving roads, less/smaller tools required, easier storage, cheaper enviro tax, fuel economy und und und.. I'm strongly considering a jungtimer motorcycle. I had my motorcycle license at home and if my German at the DMV served me at all, I think I'll be getting the endorsement on my German license once it's exchanged. I don't have a ton of experience, but I survived about 2,000 miles across Vietnam and Cambodia on 98cc this spring.

      Rewind four years ago just post E30 collision, I was looking at all kinds of Datsuns, MGB, Triumph.. and I realized NA miata checked all the right boxes while being an awesome daily. I put on about 15,000 nearly entirely trouble free miles each the last two summers. Loved it so much I kept it back home in case things didn't work out here but I'll be getting a buddy to sell it this spring now that things have.

      All that said, I'm looking for the NA Miata of the motorcycle world. A German manufacturer would be bonus points, but I'm open to all options. I'm looking for proven reliability track record, good parts availability, easy enough wrenching for someone who's used to cars, needn't be a speed demon but good power to weight ratio is important, and of course attainable price (thinking ~2000 euros right now). Would be nice if it was capable of about 80mph in case I needed to Autobahn it (400cc?).

      At the end of the day, if I move back to Canada, I'd be wanting to take it with me. Can anyone speak to importing a motorcycle from Germany? Bringing one with you?.. Might be a more Canadian specific question.

      TIA!

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      Last edited by lowredcabrio; 02-16-2017 at 04:31 PM.
      3 + 3 + 3 = NEIN!

    2. Member TooFitToQuit's Avatar
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      02-16-2017 04:26 PM #2
      KTM / Husky

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      02-16-2017 04:36 PM #3
      Ninja 250 is what I just bought for myself.

      I think the ROW models even have fuel injection (USA has carbs) - maybe even ABS?

      I only have a couple hundred miles on mine but I love it. 13000 rpm in 6th gear is like 99 mph and it weighs all of 350ish lbs.

    4. Member lowredcabrio's Avatar
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      02-16-2017 05:13 PM #4
      Ninja 250 would be a blast..

      Don't really know anything about KTM but I've heard they're good starter bikes. I would prefer something a little older. An older ninja could do it though.

      What say ye about something like this? Any reasons to run away?

      https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...97816-305-7692
      3 + 3 + 3 = NEIN!

    5. 02-16-2017 05:51 PM #5
      Be aware that if you wish to bring the bike to Canada it has to be at least 15 years old to the exact manufacturing date (not the model year). To do the same to the USA, it has to be at least 25 years old to the manufacturing date. It is not possible to legally import a newer vehicle for permanent registration. The older vehicles are exempt from compliance to North American emissions and safety standards.

      It sounds like you are looking for something small and light. Ninja 250 is a good choice but don't concern yourself with importing that across the pond, it's not worthwhile. KTM RC390 or 390 Duke is another choice but they're too new to be imported (and are also available here, so there's no point). Europe had better choices of small displacement sport bikes than North America did. A friend of mine just imported his 1993 Kawasaki ZXR400, and he already owns a 1991 Yamaha FZR250, both of which were never available in North America.

      Problem with owning something that was never available on this side of the pond ... Parts! You can't just go to your local motorcycle dealer and order parts that were specific to that model. You have to know what parts from some other bike can be substituted where possible, and you have to order parts from overseas where that is not possible, e.g. for bodywork. Heaven help if you crash it. Even a minor tip-over can damage parts that are unobtainium on this side of the ocean.

      I'd suggest buying something readily available on your side of the pond, then when you are ready to cross the ocean, sell it there and buy something here that's readily available on this side of the pond. Skip trying to import it.

    6. Member Triumph's Avatar
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      02-16-2017 06:22 PM #6
      Paging Atomic Alex!

      If you aren't stuck with graduated licensing, you have a lot of options but I don't think they would be as cheap as in the States/Canada. Besides everything being more expensive over there, and considering the ~1:1 exchange, you'd be hard pressed to find a GOOD bike in the States for $2,000. You can find lots of bikes for that price, but you are teetering very close to the "needs work" spectrum unless you find the odd one that someone just needs to get rid of. That's in the States, I don't know what the used market is like over there.

      Bikes I would look for:
      2nd gen Suzuki SV650. Universally loved as a great starter to mid-level bike. Suspension mods aplenty make it a track day favorite. Plenty of power and torque to do 80 mph all day long. Cheap and reliable.
      BMW F650, with the single cylinder thumper (the naming of this bike got real weird in the last 5 years). Does everything pretty well, master of none. Not as sporty as the SV, but probably more comfortable.
      Kawasaki KLR650. Japanese version of the BMW F650. Does everything the BMW does just as well, at a huge price cut.
      Ninja 250. Ehhh, I would call it underpowered. I have never ridden a Ninja 300, though. They're definitely reliable, frugal, and inexpensive. But they are small and high reving. I personally would prefer the torque of a big single or V-twin (see above)

      One thing that I've heard, is that bike renting is much more common - many dealers will have bikes available for rent. Try before you buy!
      -Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog

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      02-16-2017 06:31 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Triumph View Post
      If you aren't stuck with graduated licensing...
      2nd gen Suzuki SV650. Universally loved as a great starter to mid-level bike. Suspension mods aplenty make it a track day favorite. Plenty of power and torque to do 80 mph all day long. Cheap and reliable.
      Bar none!

      I borrow friends and families motorcycles when I'm visiting Germany. Over the past decade I've had some seat time in an older Africa Twin, 5th gen VFR, newer Suzuki Gladius (SV650) and a Yamaha Roadliner cruising around the Eifel region and I'd recommend any of them but if you're looking for the 'miata' of the bunch, it's the gladius/SV all day, every day in every way. I think it's one of the most raced motorcycles stateside, no?

    8. Senior Member Iroczgirl's Avatar
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      02-16-2017 06:56 PM #8
      See, if you want German-made, and you want reliable/different, you're going to have to get an old bike.

      The NSU Konsul might be a good fit, but I think they're getting pricey. They were available in displacements up to 500cc. Parts supply is decent for any NSU motorcycle. They were once the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world (1955).



      http://www.nsu-schoenhaar.de/seite102.htm

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    9. 02-16-2017 06:56 PM #9
      Yeah, we definitely need Alex on this one.

      If you're not dealing with restricted licenses, I agree that the SV650 is pretty much the Miata of motorcycles. I've heard that the TUV is a bitch, though, so getting a legal one for less than 2000 euro might be difficult.

      Edit 2: Just re-read the OP and saw that you're already there. Makes my initial post look kind of stupid. What's left applies, though.
      Last edited by gr8shandini; 02-16-2017 at 07:04 PM.

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      02-16-2017 07:02 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Triumph View Post
      Paging Atomic Alex!
      I think her pager is off.
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

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    11. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 09:26 AM #11
      What? Did someone ring? Bring bring bring!!!

      Hallo youngtimer.

      We need to talk.

      Firstly, you might not be getting your A license. Did you have already Probezeit? After two years Probezeit, it transfers directly. Otherwise, just go to Fahrschule. 2K€, but a blast anyway and you catch up on the current rules. You are going to send me parts, right? You need immediately to get a Louis card. Or just use mine and get points for me!

      Now, to bikes. You want the NA Miata of bikes over there? Easy-peasy. BMW R100. R80. If you are willing to deal with being called girly, R65. These are called airheads, and you want one. If you want the old look, a twin shock will do. You want a little bit more technology, get a single-shock one. You really want to go all the way? Get a toaster - a shiny metal tank /5. Also known as a Gummikuh (rubber cow). Little bit of frame flex there.... All airheads cross borders with impunity. All do highway speeds. All make other people jealous.

      Really, an R80 sounds exactly what you want. Plenty of variants out there, not horribly expensive, and working on them is sooooo easy. The magic of riding a motorcycle with torque steer is incredible.



      Also available as a GS (the urGS, actually)



      I have other ideas for you, but the R80 is a dead-on match. Let me know what you think.
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    12. Member compy222's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 10:59 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Triumph View Post
      Paging Atomic Alex!

      If you aren't stuck with graduated licensing, you have a lot of options but I don't think they would be as cheap as in the States/Canada. Besides everything being more expensive over there, and considering the ~1:1 exchange, you'd be hard pressed to find a GOOD bike in the States for $2,000. You can find lots of bikes for that price, but you are teetering very close to the "needs work" spectrum unless you find the odd one that someone just needs to get rid of. That's in the States, I don't know what the used market is like over there.

      Bikes I would look for:
      2nd gen Suzuki SV650. Universally loved as a great starter to mid-level bike. Suspension mods aplenty make it a track day favorite. Plenty of power and torque to do 80 mph all day long. Cheap and reliable.
      BMW F650, with the single cylinder thumper (the naming of this bike got real weird in the last 5 years). Does everything pretty well, master of none. Not as sporty as the SV, but probably more comfortable.
      Kawasaki KLR650. Japanese version of the BMW F650. Does everything the BMW does just as well, at a huge price cut.
      Ninja 250. Ehhh, I would call it underpowered. I have never ridden a Ninja 300, though. They're definitely reliable, frugal, and inexpensive. But they are small and high reving. I personally would prefer the torque of a big single or V-twin (see above)

      One thing that I've heard, is that bike renting is much more common - many dealers will have bikes available for rent. Try before you buy!
      All good recommendations, the FZ6r is another one that gets thrown around a lot, the "fazer" is very common in europe, has a strong following, and i recall the later ones having ABS there. it's fuel injected and reliable. i believe it the R model meets the lower licensing reqs.

      I had a ninja 250 and loved it, they are cheap, easy to work on, fun to ride, and i LOVED zinging it to the rev limit. Honestly, the best small bike out there and the Ninja 300 is also a great choice (but newer as mentioned).
      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

    13. Member Kar98's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 11:37 AM #13
      Two wheeled motor vehicle that's the equivalent of the Miata?

      Look no further!



      And some dictionaring: in Denglish, vintage cars are called oldtimers. When I was a kid, ALL vintage cars were called Dixi, after the Austin 7 built by BMW in license as the Dixi in Eisenach. So it's not an old toothless guy rocking on his fron tporch when Germans are talking about oldtimers, but cars older than 30 years. "Youngtimer" was extrapolated from that, meaning "modern classics". "Probezeit" is the probationary period on German drivers' licenses, two years, during which infractions are punished much harder, your insurance is a lot more expensive, and motorcycles are restricted to 47 HP and 0.2 kW/kg, assuming you're 18 and older. If you're 24 or older, you won't be restricted in your choice of motorcycle.

      Regulations keep changing, I've long since given up on trying to keep track, so do your own research as to what's legal this week
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    14. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 12:08 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Kar98 View Post
      Two wheeled motor vehicle that's the equivalent of the Miata?

      Look no further! **KTM**
      No.

      NA Miatas are a sweet package that combines very solid (not special, but solid) handling and braking with moderate power, lighter weight, and a few creature comforts. They are almost Honda levels of reliable/durable.

      A bike that uses an hour meter to schedule oil changes? Nope.

      OP wants a borderless bike (huge hurdle to get over) that evokes his youngtimer mind. We are fully into CBs and GSs on the Japanese side, and boxers on the German side. Italians are off the table for the same reasons the Austrians are not invited.

      Additionally, he needs to stay the hell out of the 250 class due to insurance costs. My CBR250R cost me more to insure than my blasted GS did. Because only sane people ride GSs, and only crazy young people ride 125s and 250s. Yay Germany.
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      02-17-2017 01:05 PM #15
      Oh, you don't want oil changes, you wanna stay out of the 250ccm class, you want moderate power and nimbleness, light weight and old enough to count to be importable?

      Nowdays us made cars what you're proud of

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      02-17-2017 01:50 PM #16
      the VFR400 might work, not sure on HP thought, it could be over the A license limits. also, insurance is likely a lot and buy price could be over 2k euros for a good one.

      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

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      02-17-2017 02:53 PM #17
      Not sure of the license requirements over there-- but I love, and so do a lot of European riders, the Yamaha FZ07.

      Great bike, extremely reliable, and it reminds me of the Miata. Only thing is, if you weigh more than 150# you'll definitely want to upgrade the front shock.
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      02-17-2017 03:27 PM #18
      Wait you can't find BMW bikes out the wazzo there?

      Yep looks like atomicalex is pointing you right.
      Last edited by jszucs; 02-17-2017 at 03:31 PM.

    19. Member Dan92SLC's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 06:59 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by compy222 View Post
      the VFR400 might work, not sure on HP thought, it could be over the A license limits. also, insurance is likely a lot and buy price could be over 2k euros for a good one.

      As a former FZR400 & VFR750 owner (among others) I always lusted for the VFR400 ...it's like a mini RC. Must be heavenly.


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    20. Member lowredcabrio's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 07:42 PM #20
      Awesome replies so far! Thanks everyone.

      I should find out this week what I'll get for a license. There's a solid chance I'll get to bypass the written stuff and be able to challenge the riding test. I already went through the graduated program at home and had an unrestricted license, so I'm crossing my fingers it magically transfers over directly. As mentioned here, it's pretty pricey to jump through the hoops.

      I didn't want to say it outright in the OP, but the R90 has been a dream bike of mine for quite a while! Haven't really seen any in my price range yet, but I haven't looked much yet either. That said, sometimes it's worth it to fork out and get the dream bike now rather than trying to sell the beginner bike in a year's time..

      SV650 wasn't on the radar till now, but I'll definitely keep my eyes open for one!

      Importing the bike is by no means a deal breaker, but the last couple cars I've owned I've told myself I'd like to keep "forever".. one robbed by an accident, and now the miata due to moving. With this bike, I'd like to try to no expenses spared maintain it and actually try to keep it long term, even if I move. Only time will tell.

      Thought this would be an interesting topic. Thanks for all the replies and keep them coming! To me, part of the NA miata feel is the classic feeling with modern reliability.

      edit: yeah R80/90 range is looking like minimum 5k for a decent example! Unfortunately more than I can afford now.
      Last edited by lowredcabrio; 02-17-2017 at 07:46 PM.
      3 + 3 + 3 = NEIN!

    21. Member lowredcabrio's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 07:49 PM #21
      This looks like awesome bang for buck! But not exactly the classic styling I'm dreaming of..

      https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...64865-305-8376
      3 + 3 + 3 = NEIN!

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      02-17-2017 07:54 PM #22
      Not german, but lots of fun:

      Husqvarna Nuda 900R



      Edit: didn't see your price range. KTM LC4 is definitely bang for your buck, and a SV650 is pretty much the "miata of motorcycles" :

      http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/201...ack-1742978925
      Last edited by DG7Projects; 02-17-2017 at 07:57 PM.
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      02-18-2017 12:29 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      ...

      Now, to bikes. You want the NA Miata of bikes over there? Easy-peasy. BMW R100. R80...
      This, another vote for the R100.

      Also look at what flatracer.com/ has to offer for these bikes.

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    24. Member lowredcabrio's Avatar
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      02-18-2017 02:59 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      What? Did someone ring? Bring bring bring!!!

      Hallo youngtimer.

      We need to talk.

      Firstly, you might not be getting your A license. Did you have already Probezeit? After two years Probezeit, it transfers directly. Otherwise, just go to Fahrschule. 2K€, but a blast anyway and you catch up on the current rules. You are going to send me parts, right? You need immediately to get a Louis card. Or just use mine and get points for me!

      Now, to bikes. You want the NA Miata of bikes over there? Easy-peasy. BMW R100. R80. If you are willing to deal with being called girly, R65. These are called airheads, and you want one. If you want the old look, a twin shock will do. You want a little bit more technology, get a single-shock one. You really want to go all the way? Get a toaster - a shiny metal tank /5. Also known as a Gummikuh (rubber cow). Little bit of frame flex there.... All airheads cross borders with impunity. All do highway speeds. All make other people jealous.

      Really, an R80 sounds exactly what you want. Plenty of variants out there, not horribly expensive, and working on them is sooooo easy. The magic of riding a motorcycle with torque steer is incredible.



      Also available as a GS (the urGS, actually)



      I have other ideas for you, but the R80 is a dead-on match. Let me know what you think.
      While the R80/90/100 are a little pricey here, the R65 looks like I could afford it! No problem with girly comments.. After all, I am trying to recreate the Miata experience..

      This one looks reasonable!
      https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...89859-305-8646

      Tell me more about this torque steer...
      Last edited by lowredcabrio; 02-18-2017 at 03:02 PM.
      3 + 3 + 3 = NEIN!

    25. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      02-18-2017 03:16 PM #25
      Longitudinal crankshaft. Get on the throttle and the bike tips over.
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