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    Thread: Doesn't look good for the BMW i8

    1. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 11:43 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by PoorHouse View Post
      I'll disagree with you on this.

      And, if they don't, they may want to give the perception of caring.
      Or they may want to drive their sports car into the heart of congestion taxed, and CO2 taxed, cities across Europe and the UK where the electric portion of the hybrid allows it to get in without a tax (or where straight dino fuel cars aren't even allowed)
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      02-17-2017 11:56 AM #27
      "Niche luxury car depreciates rapidly. More news at 11!"



      As far as luxury hybrid ownership is concerned I suspect people are buying these to be perceived as hip environmentalists, not to save money on gas.
      Last edited by PsychoVolvo; 02-17-2017 at 12:01 PM.

    3. Member 82Turbo930's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 11:59 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by BlakeV View Post
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/car...te-slowly.html



      Before some tabloid nazis jump on DM, this comes from another site WeBuyAnyCar.com

      Consolation, the R8 does worse.


      Reminds me too much of Apple products. I won't follow the crowd of brainwashed zombies.
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      02-17-2017 12:21 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Son View Post
      Nobody, literally not one single person, in the US seems to get that fuel efficiency isn't only about a smaller gas bill, it's also about smaller CO2 emissions, i.e. saving the environment. This car sells to those who a) make ideological choises and b) want something futuristic.

      This is one of those cars that you shouldn't judge only as one single model. This is a step on the development path towards the future of sportive motoring. At some point you have to productize your R&D work to get real world experience, even if it wasn't quite there yet.
      I live in an area with probably the highest concentration of i8s in the country, and this car seems to primarily appeal to people who like its looks. I've heard plenty of noise about this car and none of it pertains to fuel economy. It's also not all that efficient for the performance it provides, it's efficient compared to other cars of the same price, all of which are significantly faster

      Also, I don't think BMW should get a pass for "productizing their R&D work". This thing isn't even as fast (nor as efficient for that matter) as a Tesla Model S which is a family car that costs significantly less

      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      I'm curious if those of you who are negative on this car have ever driven one? I have not, so I don't comment on anything other than its looks (which I personally like, as a slightly futuristic statement car). I am generally of the view that your opinion on a car's usefulness or desirability is less valid until you have spent some time driving it. Otherwise you're just repeating what you have heard, read, or assumed. Not every car you drive has to be the fastest in its class to be enjoyable. If you drive it, you might just get out and say "I like that". As others here have pointed out, there are many factors that a buyer might value that have nothing to do with 0-60 times, skidpad Gs, or rich Corinthian leather.
      I mostly agree, although you can still get a sense of what a car is supposed to offer from reading. Driving is definitely required to figure out the nuances of a car, but the general idea of how a car drives can definitely be informed by a combination of the layout, the specs, and reading driving impressions. And there is absolutely nothing I've read about this car that suggests it is anything special with regards to the driving experience. Nobody is saying 0-60 times and skidpad Gs are everything. I prefer a Miata to 99% of the cars on the street, many of which have better specs on paper. But this car is $150k, is it wrong to expect all-around excellence (including spec sheet excellence, although the spec sheet isn't the only place where this car is lacking compared to its competitors) at that price point?

      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Rich people have the luxury of choice and many i8 owners probably own several high end cars.

      Wayne Rooney from the OP owns cars from Aston Martin, Range Rover, Bentley, and Lamborghini all in addition to the i8.
      Sure, lots of people who buy one of these can buy other cars, but does that mean a $150k car shouldn't be exceptional to drive compared to other cars that cost a similar amount?

      Quote Originally Posted by Tdi13golf View Post
      We love our i3. The driving dynamics is what the car delivers. I'm not a tree hugger or a snowflake. So the EV or saving polar bears want my goal. We wanted a fun and effeicent city car and the i3 is it. If the i8 has the same quality of driving dynamics then it would be a great car. Most all high end cars loose value.
      I've driven an i3 and found nothing special at all about the driving experience, that's just my opinion though, I know a few people around here seem to like them
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      02-17-2017 12:21 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by 82Turbo930 View Post
      Reminds me too much of Apple products. I won't follow the crowd of brainwashed zombies.
      Well, it also takes premium

      Brainwashed zombies? As an i3 driver, we went from a Plug In Prius to an i3 as it was the best tool for the job. Didn't matter the badge or anything else. It just turned out to be an awesome driving experience.

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      02-17-2017 12:30 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Tdi13golf View Post
      We love our i3. The driving dynamics is what the car delivers. I'm not a tree hugger or a snowflake. So the EV or saving polar bears want my goal. We wanted a fun and effeicent city car and the i3 is it. If the i8 has the same quality of driving dynamics then it would be a great car. Most all high end cars loose value.


      I actually like the i3. I would much rather have an i3 than a Prius or the Lexus equivalent.
      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

    7. Senior Member Ryukein's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 12:30 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      It's also not all that efficient for the performance it provides, it's efficient compared to other cars of the same price, all of which are significantly faster
      Which of its competitors are significantly faster?

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Also, I don't think BMW should get a pass for "productizing their R&D work". This thing isn't even as fast (nor as efficient for that matter) as a Tesla Model S which is a family car that costs significantly less
      The Model S is also a very different type of car.

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      But this car is $150k, is it wrong to expect all-around excellence (including spec sheet excellence, although the spec sheet isn't the only place where this car is lacking compared to its competitors) at that price point?
      I don't think you should be expecting all-around excellence, even at this price point.

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Sure, lots of people who buy one of these can buy other cars, but does that mean a $150k car shouldn't be exceptional to drive compared to other cars that cost a similar amount?
      I don't think that BMW was trying to make a sportscar that is exceptional to drive.
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    8. Member catastrophicwizard's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 12:34 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post
      It is nice to see i8 and R8 depreciate like a falling stone.... I hope these depreciate kings are apply in North American as well. I may have a better chance to own an used one in future. Specially BMW i8, it is probably the "cheapest" car with "billionaire door" (in North America)...
      Might be affordable to purchase used eventually, but I would imagine that the care and replacement parts would still make it costly to own.

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      02-17-2017 12:44 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      Which of its competitors are significantly faster?
      Every single car around $150k along with several (dozens?) of cars that are much cheaper

      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post

      The Model S is also a very different type of car.
      Yeah, the Model S is a 7 passenger family car and is cheaper. Both reasons why it shouldn't be faster than the i8

      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      I don't think you should be expecting all-around excellence, even at this price point.
      A car that costs about 5x the price of the average car shouldn't be excellent in every regard? Why not?

      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      I don't think that BMW was trying to make a sportscar that is exceptional to drive.
      I guess wanting it to be exception to drive is expecting too much from a car that costs $150k, is made by the apparent purveyor of the "Ultimate Driving Machine", is ostensibly a sportscar, has a mid-engine layout and outrageous styling
      "Plenty of poseurs drive all sorts of sports cars, but poseurs won’t survive the Viper"-Car and Driver

    10. Senior Member Ryukein's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 12:51 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Every single car around $150k along with several (dozens?) of cars that are much cheaper
      I didn't say which $150k car, I said which competitor. The i8 is on-par with things like a Carrera 4 and the Lexus LC.

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Yeah, the Model S is a 7 passenger family car and is cheaper. Both reasons why it shouldn't be faster than the i8
      The Model S is also fully electric, isn't made of exotic materials, and (in some variants) is optimized for performance.

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      A car that costs about 5x the price of the average car shouldn't be excellent in every regard? Why not?
      I would not expect a sportscar that is compromised in some regards to be perfect.

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      I guess wanting it to be exception to drive is expecting too much from a car that costs $150k, is made by the apparent purveyor of the "Ultimate Driving Machine", is ostensibly a sportscar, has a mid-engine layout and outrageous styling
      They've never tried to position it as anything that it's not.
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    11. Member alleghenyman's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 01:03 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Every single car around $150k along with several (dozens?) of cars that are much cheaper



      Yeah, the Model S is a 7 passenger family car and is cheaper. Both reasons why it shouldn't be faster than the i8



      A car that costs about 5x the price of the average car shouldn't be excellent in every regard? Why not?



      I guess wanting it to be exception to drive is expecting too much from a car that costs $150k, is made by the apparent purveyor of the "Ultimate Driving Machine", is ostensibly a sportscar, has a mid-engine layout and outrageous styling
      I said it in the NSX thread and will repeat it here - the comparisons to the Tesla Model S really show the limitations of PHEVs versus EVs. Tesla is faster, cheaper, and easier to build.

      That said, you're really trying to make this car into something it's not. BMW could have done what Benz did with the AMG Coupe and built a 911 Turbo-rival, but that's not what they wanted to achieve. I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that some people like this car because it's futuristic and don't care about some numbers-driven notion of maximum speed.
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      02-17-2017 01:09 PM #37
      What I also think people tend to forget was the mission of the i Program.

      It was a multi pronged approach over changes on how to construct cars, how to power them, how to design them. How the i3 is constructed is fascinating. In an accident, the CF frame has exposed cut marks; cut the one closest to the affected piece, and by gluing in a new piece you have a bond that is stronger than the original piece. All of the new "ordinary" BMW models will eventually contain techniques learned during the development. AFAIK, the i's are also the most recyclable cars built, and are also assembled with nearly 100% renewable resources.

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      02-17-2017 01:13 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by alleghenyman View Post
      That said, you're really trying to make this car into something it's not. BMW could have done what Benz did with the AMG Coupe and built a 911 Turbo-rival, but that's not what they wanted to achieve. I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that some people like this car because it's futuristic and don't care about some numbers-driven notion of maximum speed.
      Sitting in NYC traffic most days, I get a chuckle over everyone sitting there in their leased 911 Turbo not moving any faster than I am. I wouldn't be surprised if less than 10% actually get driven anywhere near their maximum limits. For sitting in traffic, the idea that you are running on EV resources - and not dealing with some mandated start/stop system to "save" fuel - is actually a great feeling.

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      02-17-2017 01:21 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Sure, lots of people who buy one of these can buy other cars, but does that mean a $150k car shouldn't be exceptional to drive compared to other cars that cost a similar amount?
      Same could be said of most high end vehicles as I'm sure there is a cheaper performing option without the fancy badge. Most of us don't shop for cars going by absolute best performance for the money.
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      02-17-2017 01:26 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by alleghenyman View Post
      I said it in the NSX thread and will repeat it here - the comparisons to the Tesla Model S really show the limitations of PHEVs versus EVs. Tesla is faster, cheaper, and easier to build.

      That said, you're really trying to make this car into something it's not. BMW could have done what Benz did with the AMG Coupe and built a 911 Turbo-rival, but that's not what they wanted to achieve. I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that some people like this car because it's futuristic and don't care about some numbers-driven notion of maximum speed.
      It was also pointed out in the NSX thread that the Tesla is only quicker in ideal circumstances with a healthy state of charge. The NSX still puts a faster lap around popular circuits such as the lighting lap where the NSX completed the lap is 2:50.2 vs 3:17.4 in the P85D.
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      02-17-2017 01:29 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by BlakeV View Post
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/car...te-slowly.html



      Before some tabloid nazis jump on DM, this comes from another site WeBuyAnyCar.com

      Consolation, the R8 does worse.
      Lol, the source of the depreciation is some scammy, low-balling car buying TV/radio commercial?

      What idiot uses that as an accurate gauge of what a car is really worth? Oh yea, the click-baiting morons at the dailymail.

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      02-17-2017 01:33 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      I didn't say which $150k car, I said which competitor. The i8 is on-par with things like a Carrera 4 and the Lexus LC.
      I know what you said. I also know you've drunk the industry Kool Aid and believe everything these companies tell you about which cars compete with which. If you don't cherry-pick two of the slowest possible competitors, both of which are significantly cheaper, you'll see that there are plenty of cars that do a lot of things better than be i8 for similar or less money

      And what is the point of exotic body planels if not to recuse weight and subsequently increase perofmance? Just to say they're there?
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      02-17-2017 01:34 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Somedog View Post
      And what is the point of exotic body planels if not to recuse weight and subsequently increase perofmance? Just to say they're there?
      Provide BMW more experience in building CF production cars, then more cost efficiently apply that knowledge to future models.
      Last edited by 2.0T_Convert; 02-17-2017 at 02:36 PM.
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      02-17-2017 01:38 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by alleghenyman View Post
      I said it in the NSX thread and will repeat it here - the comparisons to the Tesla Model S really show the limitations of PHEVs versus EVs. Tesla is faster, cheaper, and easier to build.

      That said, you're really trying to make this car into something it's not. BMW could have done what Benz did with the AMG Coupe and built a 911 Turbo-rival, but that's not what they wanted to achieve. I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that some people like this car because it's futuristic and don't care about some numbers-driven notion of maximum speed.
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Same could be said of most high end vehicles as I'm sure there is a cheaper performing option without the fancy badge. Most of us don't shop for cars going by absolute best performance for the money.
      Again, you guys are talking to a former Miata owner about the idea that speed isn't everything. I get that. But the i8 doesn't sound like it's providing anything special outside of the numbers either. When the most remarkable thing about a car is the price that's a problem
      "Plenty of poseurs drive all sorts of sports cars, but poseurs won’t survive the Viper"-Car and Driver

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      02-17-2017 01:38 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      I know what you said. I also know you've drunk the industry Kool Aid and believe everything these companies tell you about which cars compete with whichy
      It's pretty delicious.

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      you'll see that there are plenty of cars that do a lot of things better than be i8 for similar or less money
      No ****, but those cars are not really competitors for the i8. BMW didn't set out to build a car that will crush a 911 Turbo or a Z06.

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      And what is the point of exotic body planels if not to recuse weight and subsequently increase perofmance? Just to say they're there?
      They DO reduce weight and increase performance. Who said that they didn't? But 2.0T_Convert and TDIBUGMAN gave additional explanations as to why BMW did what they did.

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Again, you guys are talking to a former Miata owner about the idea that speed isn't everything. I get that. But the i8 doesn't sound like it's providing anything special outside of the numbers either. When the most remarkable thing about a car is the price that's a problem
      If you still don't get it then I really don't know what to tell you.
      Last edited by Ryukein; 02-17-2017 at 01:41 PM.
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      02-17-2017 01:42 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Again, you guys are talking to a former Miata owner about the idea that speed isn't everything. I get that. But the i8 doesn't sound like it's providing anything special outside of the numbers either. When the most remarkable thing about a car is the price that's a problem
      It's a quick BMW that's also fuel efficient and cool looking. I drove one in SoBe and it felt 'special' to drive. Opinions may vary.
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      02-17-2017 01:48 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      It's pretty delicious.



      No ****, but those cars are not really competitors for the i8. BMW didn't set out to build a car that will crush a 911 Turbo or a Z06.



      They DO reduce weight and increase performance. Who said that they didn't? But 2.0T_Convert and TDIBUGMAN gave additional explanations as to why BMW did what they did.



      If you don't get it then I really don't know what to tell you.
      Where did I say they needed to build a car that crushed a 911 Turbo or Z06? Forget those cars, how about giving your $150k sportscar the ability to out-accelerate a $35k Mustang? How about not putting a 3 cylinder engine in a car that costs 5x as much as an average car? Why isn't your "technological showcase" able to perform better than a (signicantly cheaper) SUV from Tesla?

      And my point is that the use of exotic materials is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. And there is nothing special about the performance or the weight of his car, so forgive me for not being impressed by BMW's application of exotic materials

      Sure, BMW gained valuable experience from building this car but that doesn't make it a good car, that makes it a good R&D platform
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      02-17-2017 01:49 PM #48
      It's a UK article, everything over there depreciates like a rock.
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      02-17-2017 02:17 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Provide BMW more experience in building CF production cars, then more cost efficiently apply that knowledge to future models.
      I've been mal-attributed, I demand a retraction to your post!
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      02-17-2017 02:21 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      It was also pointed out in the NSX thread that the Tesla is only quicker in ideal circumstances with a healthy state of charge. The NSX still puts a faster lap around popular circuits such as the lighting lap where the NSX completed the lap is 2:50.2 vs 3:17.4 in the P85D.
      That's fine, but my point is that the EV is cheaper to build, faster, and more responsive than the NSX (I don't know re the i8). It's a large sedan, not a track car, but do you really doubt that Tesla could build a coupe with a bigger battery better-managed for a few laps at a track?
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