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    Thread: Doesn't look good for the BMW i8

    1. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 02:34 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by alleghenyman View Post
      That's fine, but my point is that the EV is cheaper to build, faster, and more responsive than the NSX (I don't know re the i8). It's a large sedan, not a track car, but do you really doubt that Tesla could build a coupe with a bigger battery better-managed for a few laps at a track?
      Reading here a P85 owner took his car to the track where the car starting pulling back power on the second lap. Heat management was a possible culprit.

      I'm sure we will see electric track cars soon but until then there is nothing wrong with choosing a fast hybrid
      Last edited by 2.0T_Convert; 02-17-2017 at 02:40 PM.
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      02-17-2017 02:57 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      The i8 does nothing well. And most luxury cars are going to lose a good chunk anyways.
      Was going to say this very thing.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      You're a self-serving Japanese car-hating asshat.
      I drive two Japanese cars.

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      02-17-2017 03:18 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      The i8 does nothing well. And most luxury cars are going to lose a good chunk anyways.
      it does the looks department better than almost anything on the road, maybe even the best.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

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      02-17-2017 03:31 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      it does the looks department better than almost anything on the road, maybe even the best.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      You're a self-serving Japanese car-hating asshat.
      I drive two Japanese cars.

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      02-17-2017 03:35 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Where did I say they needed to build a car that crushed a 911 Turbo or Z06? Forget those cars, how about giving your $150k sportscar the ability to out-accelerate a $35k Mustang? How about not putting a 3 cylinder engine in a car that costs 5x as much as an average car? Why isn't your "technological showcase" able to perform better than a (signicantly cheaper) SUV from Tesla?

      And my point is that the use of exotic materials is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. And there is nothing special about the performance or the weight of his car, so forgive me for not being impressed by BMW's application of exotic materials

      Sure, BMW gained valuable experience from building this car but that doesn't make it a good car, that makes it a good R&D platform
      Luckily, the i8 is quicker than the Stang GT, 0-60. 3 cylinder? Good for them, getting that 0-60 number out of a car with a 3 cylinder motor/electric hybrid system. That IS a feat in itself.

      The "technological showcase" uses far more exotic materials than Tesla. Hence, the Tesla is significantly cheaper. Though, oddly, the i3 uses the SAME exotic materials and costs far less than a Tesla. Why is the i8 that much more than an i3? Simple - CFRP is extremely difficult to work with (at this stage), so the i8 body is significantly more money to build. Personally, I'd love to see an i8 with the i3 drive system, but then there's the loss of AWD.

      Having driven a Tesla, having an i3 in the garage, and having behind the wheels experience with an i8, the materials used in either BMW product is far, far better than what Tesla uses in their interiors. They obviously chose to control costs how they saw fit; as did BMW. To different strategies to bring a vehicle to market.

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      02-17-2017 04:13 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by TDIBUGMAN View Post
      Luckily, the i8 is quicker than the Stang GT, 0-60. 3 cylinder? Good for them, getting that 0-60 number out of a car with a 3 cylinder motor/electric hybrid system. That IS a feat in itself.

      The "technological showcase" uses far more exotic materials than Tesla. Hence, the Tesla is significantly cheaper. Though, oddly, the i3 uses the SAME exotic materials and costs far less than a Tesla. Why is the i8 that much more than an i3? Simple - CFRP is extremely difficult to work with (at this stage), so the i8 body is significantly more money to build. Personally, I'd love to see an i8 with the i3 drive system, but then there's the loss of AWD.

      Having driven a Tesla, having an i3 in the garage, and having behind the wheels experience with an i8, the materials used in either BMW product is far, far better than what Tesla uses in their interiors. They obviously chose to control costs how they saw fit; as did BMW. To different strategies to bring a vehicle to market.

      Let's put the performance argument into perspective:


      2016 BMW i8


      Coupe
      AWD
      6A
      4.0 sec
      12.5 sec @ 113 mph
      Car and Driver

      2015 BMW i8

      Coupe
      AWD
      6A
      3.6 sec
      12.1 sec @ 116 mph
      Car and Driver

      Coupe
      AWD
      6A
      4.4 sec
      12.9 sec @ 110 mph
      Motor Week

      Coupe (EV Mode)
      AWD
      6A
      9.2 sec
      17.2 sec @ 74 mph
      Car and Driver

      2016 Ford Mustang

      EcoBoost Premium Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      5.6 sec
      14.0 sec @ 102 mph
      Car and Driver

      EcoBoost Premium Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      6.3 sec
      14.5 sec @ 98 mph
      Motor Trend

      GT Premium Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      4.3 sec
      12.9 sec @ 112 mph
      Car and Driver

      GT Premium Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      4.6 sec
      12.9 sec @ 110 mph
      Motor Trend

      GT Premium Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      4.7 sec
      13.2 sec @ 109.8 mph
      Road & Track

      Shelby GT350 Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      4.3 sec
      12.5 sec @ 117 mph
      Car and Driver

      Shelby GT350 Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      4.3 sec
      12.5 sec @ 119 mph
      Car and Driver

      Shelby GT350 Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      4.1 sec
      12.4 sec @ 117.8 mph
      Motor Trend

      Shelby GT350R Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      3.9 sec
      12.2 sec @ 119 mph
      Car and Driver

      Shelby GT350R Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      3.9 sec
      12.1 sec @ 119.6 mph
      Motor Trend

      Shelby GT350R Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      4.0 sec
      12.2 sec @ 118.9 mph
      Motor Trend

      Shelby GT350R Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      4.0 sec
      12.3 sec @ 119 mph
      Motor Week

      Shelby GT350R Fastback
      RWD
      6M
      4.0 sec
      12.3 sec @ 117.9 mph
      Road & Track

      2017 Chevrolet Corvette

      Grand Sport 1LT Coupe (Z07 Package)
      RWD
      8A
      3.9 sec
      12.3 sec @ 116 mph
      Motor Week

      Grand Sport 2LT Coupe
      RWD
      7M
      3.9 sec
      12.3 sec @ 117 mph
      Car and Driver

      Grand Sport 3LT Coupe
      RWD
      7M
      3.8 sec
      12.2 sec @ 117 mph
      Car and Driver

      Grand Sport 3LT Coupe (Z07 Package)
      RWD
      8A
      3.6 sec
      12.0 sec @ 116.6 mph
      Motor Trend

      Grand Sport 3LT Coupe (Z07 Package)
      RWD
      7M
      3.9 sec
      12.2 sec @ 116.1 mph
      Motor Trend

      Grand Sport 3LT Coupe (Z07 Package)
      RWD
      7M
      3.7 sec
      12.1 sec @ 117 mph
      Road & Track

      2016 Chevrolet Corvette

      Callaway SC757 Z06 Coupe
      RWD
      7M
      2.8 sec
      10.5 sec @ 131 mph
      Motor Week

      Stingray Z51 2LT Coupe
      RWD
      7M
      3.9 sec
      12.2 sec @ 119 mph
      Car and Driver

      2017 Audi R8

      V10 Plus Quattro Coupe
      AWD
      7A
      2.9 sec
      10.9 sec @ 129 mph
      Car and Driver

      V10 Plus Quattro Coupe
      AWD
      7A
      2.6 sec
      10.6 sec @ 130.3 mph
      Motor Trend

      V10 Plus Quattro Coupe
      AWD
      7A
      3.0 sec
      11.0 sec @ 128 mph
      Motor Week

      V10 Plus Quattro Coupe
      AWD
      7A
      2.8 sec
      10.8 sec @ 129.5 mph
      Road & Track

      V10 Plus Quattro Coupe (Euro Spec)
      AWD
      7A
      2.6 sec
      10.6 sec @ 129.8 mph
      Motor Trend

      2016 Audi R8

      V10 Plus Quattro Coupe (Euro Spec)
      AWD
      7A
      2.7 sec
      10.6 sec @ 132 mph
      Car and Driver


      2017 Tesla Model S


      P100D Ludicrous+
      AWD
      1A
      2.28 sec
      10.5 sec @ 125 mph
      Motor Trend

      2016 Tesla Model S

      60
      RWD
      1A
      5.0 sec
      13.6 sec @ 103.5 mph
      Motor Trend

      P90D Ludicrous
      AWD
      1A
      4.0 sec
      12.4 sec @ 114 mph
      Motor Week

      2015 Tesla Model S

      70D
      AWD
      1A
      5.1 sec
      13.8 sec @ 101 mph
      Car and Driver

      P85D
      AWD
      1A
      3.3 sec
      11.8 sec @ 114 mph
      Car and Driver

      P85D
      AWD
      1A
      3.1 sec
      11.6 sec @ 115.2 mph
      Motor Trend

      P85D
      AWD
      1A
      3.2 sec
      11.7 sec @ 113.7 mph
      Motor Trend

      P90D Ludicrous
      AWD
      1A
      2.8 sec
      11.1 sec @ 121 mph
      Car and Driver

      P90D Ludicrous
      AWD
      1A
      2.6 sec
      10.9 sec @ 122.7 mph
      Motor Trend

      2016 Tesla Model X

      75D
      AWD
      1A
      5.5 sec
      14.1 sec @ 100.6 mph
      Motor Trend

      P90D Ludicrous
      AWD
      1A
      3.3 sec
      11.8 sec @ 116 mph
      Car and Driver

      P90D Ludicrous
      AWD
      1A
      3.2 sec
      11.7 sec @ 116 mph
      Motor Trend

      2014 Porsche Panamera

      4S
      AWD
      7A
      4.4 sec
      13.0 sec @ 104.6 mph
      Motor Trend

      Turbo
      AWD
      7A
      3.4 sec
      11.8 sec @ 116.4 mph
      Motor Trend

      Turbo
      AWD
      7A
      3.4 sec
      11.9 sec @ 114.4 mph
      Road & Track

      Turbo Executive
      AWD
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      3.3 sec
      11.8 sec @ 118 mph
      Car and Driver

      Turbo S Executive
      AWD
      7A
      3.5 sec
      11.7 sec @ 120 mph
      Car and Driver






      2016 Cadillac CTS-V

      Sedan
      RWD
      8A
      3.6 sec
      11.8 sec @ 124 mph
      Car and Driver

      Sedan
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      3.8 sec
      11.9 sec @ 122 mph
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      Sedan
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      11.9 sec @ 126 mph
      Motor Week

      Sedan
      RWD
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      3.5 sec
      11.6 sec @ 126.1 mph
      Road & Track


      2014 Cadillac CTS-V


      Wagon
      RWD
      6A
      3.9 sec
      12.3 sec @ 115 mph
      Motor Trend

      2012 Cadillac CTS-V

      Hennessey Hammer Wagon
      RWD
      6M
      3.6 sec
      11.8 sec @ 126 mph
      Motor Week

      Sedan
      RWD
      6M
      4.2 sec
      12.5 sec @ 115.3 mph
      Road & Track
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      You're a self-serving Japanese car-hating asshat.
      I drive two Japanese cars.

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      02-17-2017 04:18 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by DJMRDARK View Post
      Let's put the performance argument into perspective:

      [
      For all of that copying and pasting, let me just point out that thetopdog pointed out it was not faster than a $35K dollar Mustang GT. Clearly it is.

      That there are other cars with better performance does not surprise me. None of the cars on that list have a 3 cyl. motor though,

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      02-17-2017 04:30 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by TDIBUGMAN View Post
      For all of that copying and pasting, let me just point out that thetopdog pointed out it was not faster than a $35K dollar Mustang GT. Clearly it is.

      That there are other cars with better performance does not surprise me. None of the cars on that list have a 3 cyl. motor though,
      And there are others with no motor(ICE) at all, ie. Tesla.

      The larger point Topdog is making is that the i8 does nothing in particular well. Its compromised. You can have better luxury, better performance, and have it all in one better package for less money. Yes it has exotic materials, but so what. They don't make it a better car. For the money you have far better options.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      You're a self-serving Japanese car-hating asshat.
      I drive two Japanese cars.

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      02-17-2017 04:32 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      it does the looks department better than almost anything on the road, maybe even the best.
      It's definitely the in-car to be seen in. Best looking? Taste is very subjective, like music.



      The styling is polarizing, that's for sure.
      I feel like this has all happened before.

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      02-17-2017 04:33 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by DJMRDARK View Post
      For the money you have far better options.
      For what purpose, though? No other car is like the i8. To say that it does nothing well is just wrong.
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      02-17-2017 04:33 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by TDIBUGMAN View Post
      For all of that copying and pasting, let me just point out that thetopdog pointed out it was not faster than a $35K dollar Mustang GT. Clearly it is.

      That there are other cars with better performance does not surprise me. None of the cars on that list have a 3 cyl. motor though,
      In those numbers that were posted, the 2016 Mustang GT has a 1mph slower 1/4 mile trap speed than the 2016 i8. Of course the i8 is faster 0-60, it's an AWD Hybrid with an automatic transmission so it will definitely get off the line more quickly than a RWD car with a manual. Still the point remains, the i8 is in the same realm of performance as a not-even-top-of-the-line Mustang

      And why should an i8 get brownie points for using a 3 cylinder engine? None of those other cars have 3 cylinder engines because no other company is arrogant enough to try to get away with putting a 3 cylinder engine in a "performance car"
      "Plenty of poseurs drive all sorts of sports cars, but poseurs won’t survive the Viper"-Car and Driver

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      02-17-2017 04:40 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      For what purpose, though? No other car is like the i8. To say that it does nothing well is just wrong.
      Using your logic, you can say "no other car is like it" for almost every single performance car on the market. Almost all of them have something unique about them. Uniqueness for uniqueness sake isn't something to be praised, especially at this price point

      How do you guys defending the i8 feel about the Cadillac ELR? There is no other 2 door, luxury, plug in hybrid coupe with low-slung, aggressive styling on the market (or at least there wasn't when the ELR debuted) but the ELR was widely recognized as an overpriced turd because you could buy better-performing and/or more efficient cars for the money, regardless of how unique the ELR was. Why should BMW get a pass here?
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      02-17-2017 04:41 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      For what purpose, though? No other car is like the i8. To say that it does nothing well is just wrong.
      What does it do well exactly?
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      You're a self-serving Japanese car-hating asshat.
      I drive two Japanese cars.

    14. Senior Member Ryukein's Avatar
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      02-17-2017 04:42 PM #64
      [QUOTE=thetopdog;103418801]Uniqueness for uniqueness sake isn't something to be praised, especially at this price point/QUOTE]

      Why not?

      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      How do you guys defending the i8 feel about the Cadillac ELR? There is no other 2 door, luxury, plug in hybrid coupe with low-slung, aggressive styling on the market (or at least there wasn't when the ELR debuted) but the ELR was widely recognized as an overpriced turd because you could buy better-performing and/or more efficient cars for the money, regardless of how unique the ELR was. Why should BMW get a pass here?
      The ELR was a glorified Volt. The i8 isn't just some normal BMW with a cool-looking body slapped on...
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      02-17-2017 04:48 PM #65
      The i8 is cool.

      Hence all the hate in here.

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      02-17-2017 04:51 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by George Bluth View Post
      The i8 is cool.

      Hence all the hate in here.
      No. This car is lame. Overpriced for what it is and lame. Here in LA it really amounts to being a big "MEH".

      @Ryukein - Still waiting to see what this car does well relative to the competition.
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      02-17-2017 04:52 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      Lol, the source of the depreciation is some scammy, low-balling car buying TV/radio commercial?

      What idiot uses that as an accurate gauge of what a car is really worth? Oh yea, the click-baiting morons at the dailymail.
      Didn't like your little cereals this morning?

      The "low-balling car buying TV/radio commercial" is from a company with an $750M income, similar to cars.com.

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      02-17-2017 04:53 PM #68
      A yuge difference in the performance is what's easier to achieve. Most of the other cars listed require a perfect race launch to receive those times. Often needed to warm the tires up first. Where the i8 offers better daily street use acceleration. No need to look or sound like a teenager trying to impress his buddies.

      We use full throttle on our i3 very often. Pleasurable dynamics with just a pure power delivery.

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      02-17-2017 04:55 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by BlakeV View Post

      Consolation, the R8 does worse.
      Since when?

      First gen R8's had very little depreciation, it took several years to lose 1/3 of their value.
      Early ones are coming up on ten years old now and still around 50% original value in shady cases.

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      02-17-2017 04:55 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Tdi13golf View Post
      A yuge difference in the performance is what's easier to achieve. Most of the other cars listed require a perfect race launch to receive those times. Often needed to warm the tires up first. Where the i8 offers better daily street use acceleration. No need to look or sound like a teenager trying to impress his buddies.

      We use full throttle on our i3 very often. Pleasurable dynamics with just a pure power delivery.
      This shows you haven't driven much of what I posted. Do you really think performance isn't easy to access in a Vette or Tesla?
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      You're a self-serving Japanese car-hating asshat.
      I drive two Japanese cars.

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      02-17-2017 04:56 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by IridiumB6 View Post
      They're made of carbon fibre, not plastic..I'm not sure why you think they're poor quality?.
      I was just referring to fit and finish. It is possibly the nature of carbon fibre, but the surfaces were wavy and gaps rather inconsistent.

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      02-17-2017 04:56 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by DJMRDARK View Post
      No. This car is lame. Overpriced for what it is and lame. Here in LA it really amounts to being a big "MEH".
      Why exactly is it overpriced? How would you price it?

      Quote Originally Posted by DJMRDARK View Post
      @Ryukein - Still waiting to see what this car does well relative to the competition.
      I didn't mention any competition.

      It looks like nothing else, it's very efficient, quick, more spacious than you'd think, really good to drive (even in twisties), comfy, usable every day, filled with tech... It does a lot of things well.

      Don't come back and tell me "well a 911 is better in blah blah ways." That's not what I'm saying.
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      02-17-2017 04:57 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      And why should an i8 get brownie points for using a 3 cylinder engine? None of those other cars have 3 cylinder engines because no other company is arrogant enough to try to get away with putting a 3 cylinder engine in a "performance car"
      If one afford an i8 chances are a GT is affordable as well.

      Case in point, the BB player owns an i8, Bentley, Lambo, Range Rover, Mini, etc. Maybe he only drives the i8 to get premium green parking spots or something.
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

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      02-17-2017 05:00 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      ....
      What EXACTLY does it do well?
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      You're a self-serving Japanese car-hating asshat.
      I drive two Japanese cars.

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      Join Date
      Nov 11th, 2008
      Location
      Beverly Hills, CA
      Posts
      4,522
      Vehicles
      2008 Viper, Prior: 2006 Gallardo Spyder, 2001 Miata, 2006 Corvette, 2008 Ninja 650, 1999 Lexus GS400
      02-17-2017 05:01 PM #75
      [QUOTE=Ryukein;103418841]
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      Uniqueness for uniqueness sake isn't something to be praised, especially at this price point/QUOTE]

      Why not?



      The ELR was a glorified Volt. The i8 isn't just some normal BMW with a cool-looking body slapped on...
      Why not? Is that a serious question? Anybody can build a car that's unique, all it takes is the desire and the ability to market the car to people who only demand uniqueness instead of demanding both uniqueness and excellence

      Sure, the ELR was a glorified Volt, but it was uniquely positioned in the maker and it also didn't cost $150k. You're right that the i8 isn't just a normal BMW, it manages to offer less from a performance and driving-experience standpoint than a normal BMW while also costing much more
      "Plenty of poseurs drive all sorts of sports cars, but poseurs won’t survive the Viper"-Car and Driver

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