Last edited by nobbyv; 02-28-2017 at 09:28 AM.
My C63 AMG For Sale: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...nz-C63-AMG-P31
SOLD '15 Lapiz Blue VW Golf R, '13 Sepang Blue Audi S6, '11 Sprint Blue Audi S4, '08 Montego Blue BMW 135i, '04 Deep Blue Pearl VW R32
Note: Did it right from new. Two dealers visually checked all driveline components. The service manager of the first dealership said there is a vibration but he has left the company shortly after that visit.
Two warranty alignments were done within the first 5 months because of poor direction stability(Continental summers and same brand winters)
Last edited by Ed52; 02-28-2017 at 09:40 AM.
1986 MC SS - 180 Raging HP
1997 Jetta Gt - Rustoleum Grey
2016 GSW 1.8T - Silk Blue
take the spare that you have, and the spare from your wife's car (they should be the same) and put them in the front. Go drive around, see if the issue is still there. if still there, put the originals back on and put both spares in the back. if still there, put spares on one side of the car then the other.
They called me first thing this morning to discuss the above, and offered to get me right in to the service bay whenever my schedule permitted. (It's half a work day just to get there and back.) They did ask that I drive the car for a few days first to see if it doesn't "settle out" on its own. Luckily I don't have any road trips planned in the near term.
Bridgestone.OP - Are the tires Continentals? If so, that's your problem.
I think I have at least part of an answer. Or just more questions.
After the alignmentment, the (front) caster angles are 7 deg. 25 min. on the driver's side, and 7 deg. 32 min. on the passenger's side. (A difference of 0.117 degrees.) This didn't get "flagged" because 7-25' is within tolerance, though it is the bottom end of the tolerance range.
This would explain the slight pull to the driver's side:
So, maybe a pothole or curb impact, and something got bent? OTOH these aren't what I'm experiencing:Because the weight of the vehicle causes the wheels to turn to the inside, the side with the least caster exerts the least force. This means that the wheels naturally turn toward the side with the least caster angle. We say a vehicle pulls toward the more negative caster angle.
I'm not getting any pulling or wobble at low speeds like that page describes. This may also be normal as a way to compensate for road crown:
Going back to the selling dealership Friday. I hate to take another day off work, but I need to get this sorted, especially now while the seller is willing to do so.For vehicles set up to drive on the "right" side of the road, the right side is aligned with a little more negative camber (about 1/4-degree) and a little more positive caster (again, about 1/4-degree) to help the vehicle resist the influence of crowned roads that would cause it to drift "downhill" to the right gutter. Since most roads are crowned, cross-camber and cross-caster are helpful the majority of the time, however they will cause a vehicle to drift to the left on a perfectly flat road or a road that leans to the left.
Last edited by g-man_ae; 03-05-2017 at 12:23 AM.
I know you are saying you ruled out the tires, but my wife's old Lexus had a similar problem. Took it to many different tire shops that couldn't figure it out. Ended up being one tire size that was slightly different than the other three. Being AWD, it was causing a hop.
It's worth a quick look to double check the tire sizes.
A few updates...
First, I went back to the selling dealership.
1) Shop foreman drove the car with me in it. Verified slight pull and shaking.
2) Adjusted alignment within spec.
3) Got a fresh set of tires for free. Continental ContiContact unfortunately, but free is free.
The car that tracks arrow-straight now.
At first the tires seemed to make little difference. The vibe simply shifted upward in speed and rearward in the car, i.e. vibe started at 70 mph instead of 60, with less shake in the wheel and more in the seat.
I got to take a long drive and can now refine my initial observations:
- front end vibe at 70-80 mph
- rear end vibe at a 75-85 mph
So things are smooth up to 70 and past 85. It's bad 75-80.
I have more confidence that this was a tire issue before, and a wheel balance issue now. The next step is to get a Road Force balance.
Clearly I've never worked on the car to know anything specifically about it, or the dealership that has worked on it. I do want to point out that Road Force balancing is a way to adjust the balance of the wheel and tire to overcome any deformation of the wheel and tire assembly. If you have a soft spot in the tire it will direct you to put a weight on the opposite side to counteract that. The way it works though is it loads the tire with some predetermined weight. That weight may or may not be the weight that is actually on the tire while in stalled on the vehicle, my money is on it being nowhere particularly close.
What that means is if you Road Force tires at a 1000lb load but install them on a car where the wheel only sees 700lb of force, you can easily still end up with a vibration. The other thing about it, if you have a wheel that has an end play imbalance, like the wheel rim not true on the hub, that in and out vibration will transmit into the vehicle but putting weights on the wheel isn't a great way to negate that.
Just for giggles too, we had a 1974 Camaro that we were doing a bunch of band aide work to a couple years ago and it had a persistent vibration to it, we tried balancing the wheels, rotating the wheels, balancing the drive shaft, nothing helped. Eventually I noticed that the left rear brake drum had core shifted when it was cast and then been machined true on the inside. So the outside of the brake drum was egg shaped when I put it on a wheel balancer but the inside was true to the hub so you didn't get any vibration or pulsation in the brake pedal. That was a weird one.
It's not a ridiculous request for a car to function as it should at 85 mph.
First car: 1997 Jetta GT 2.0 with a slushbox
Winter: 2004 Stage 2 Jetta NevAr lose edition with 5 speed manuél
For fun: 2000 Camaro SS 6spd, 2000 Honda CBR600F4
Road Force balance should have been step one. A decent tech can watch it spin and feel it spin. You can see any imperfections by eye, and the computer will give a high road force number.
You can also put the car in the air and spin the wheels, you should be able to see a bend.
Also as stated wire wheel the hub to remove rust.
I missed that... the place I'm going to for the RF balance of the new tires is a wheel repair place, I'll ask them about it.Also as stated wire wheel the hub to remove rust.
It sounds like the shop is a tad bit incompetent.
RF would have said the tires were flat spotted and they would have been able to see if a wheel was bent.
The shop needs to shake down the control arms and bushings too. This is really simple stuff, that a lot of shops fail at.
Most Common Vibration Issues In Numerical Order:
1. Bent Wheel (Modern day with large diameter wheels, usually it is the wheel not the tire)
2. Out of round tire
3. Bad control arm, ball joint, or other bushing
4. Axles or related part
Last edited by Aonarch; 03-19-2017 at 01:45 PM.