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    Thread: Recommended Performance Upgrades for Stage 2+ 12v VR6

    1. Junior Member
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      04-17-2017 11:24 AM #1
      No I have a 2001 Golf 12v VR6. It isn't my daily but it does get some use. I have done almost everything under the sun to this car modification wise but I wanted to post on here and see of there was anything else I could do to improve performance and overall enjoyment of the car.

      **List of mods (i might forget some)**

      -Fully rebuilt engine 30,000 miles ago
      -Unitronic Stage 2+ Tune (adjusted by local tuner to have a SAI and CAT delete)
      -Port and polished head
      -Full custom 2.5" stainless steel exhaust system (catless with dual wideband o2 sensor)
      -Sachs street stage 2 clutch and 7lb custom machined aluminum flywheel
      -Audi 4.2L v8 MAF housing (stock MAF sensor tho)
      -Custom fabbed Short Ram Intake
      -K&W Coilovers
      -Stiffer control arm bushings
      -Potenza Tires
      -BBS Rims
      -Rear Strafe bar
      -B&M Short Shifter
      -New engine mounts
      -New trans mounts

      As I said I could be forgetting some, but my main goal is to either squeeze out more horse power or squeeze out for enjoyment. My budget isn't small but a $2k turbo kit is out of the question as I am not looking for 350whp haha. Just shoot your suggestions my way and as always, drive safe and have fun! - MK4NOIR 😀

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    2. Member jcsfearless's Avatar
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      04-17-2017 01:30 PM #2
      The magic number for a 12v seems to be around 200whp. The only things I can think of that would give you more power are the following:
      Cam (for bang for the buck go autotech 262 or tt 268)
      Have your tune changed for the cam you get.
      Either port out your exhaust mani and downpipe (there are diy' s on here for that) or the tt downpipe is apparently the only one that actually makes a little power.
      A short runner intake (schimmel performance claims that theirs adds 20hp, idk how accurate that claim is)
      And finally, oversized valves. (I just had four season tuning build me a big valve head and couldn't be happier)

      Please keep in mind this is just from what I know or have read so please anyone correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

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    3. Member jcsfearless's Avatar
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      04-17-2017 01:34 PM #3
      Also this thread is very helpful. It is where I got most of my info.


      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...e-powerful-Vr6

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      04-17-2017 02:12 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by jcsfearless View Post
      The magic number for a 12v seems to be around 200whp. The only things I can think of that would give you more power are the following:
      Cam (for bang for the buck go autotech 262 or tt 268)
      Have your tune changed for the cam you get.
      Either port out your exhaust mani and downpipe (there are diy' s on here for that) or the tt downpipe is apparently the only one that actually makes a little power.
      A short runner intake (schimmel performance claims that theirs adds 20hp, idk how accurate that claim is)
      And finally, oversized valves. (I just had four season tuning build me a big valve head and couldn't be happier)

      Please keep in mind this is just from what I know or have read so please anyone correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

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      Thank you for the reply! I have definitely looked at Cams, the Autotech 262 and the Shick 268s or whatever they are. Both seem like a good option but from the VW meets I have gone to on the west coast a LOT of my VR6 buddies have not seen any noticeable HP gains, more just a difference in powerband placement. They still might be viable but until i see definitive numbers I don't want to drop $800 on the Shicks. I could definitely be interested in the Big Valve build. How much does that run and what are the benefits of it? Higher rpm redline? More air/fuel intake and quicker and easier exhaust exertion? And I have already broken the 200whp number on multiple occasions. On 93 octane, with all my mods, 2-3 days after the rebuild was done I pulled 214whp and 223wtq. These numbers were an average of 3 pulls on a dynojet dyno at Lovefab in Buckley, MI. But please give me more info on the Big Valve kit, that sounds fun.

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    5. Member jcsfearless's Avatar
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      04-17-2017 04:08 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by PlusNoir View Post
      Thank you for the reply! I have definitely looked at Cams, the Autotech 262 and the Shick 268s or whatever they are. Both seem like a good option but from the VW meets I have gone to on the west coast a LOT of my VR6 buddies have not seen any noticeable HP gains, more just a difference in powerband placement. They still might be viable but until i see definitive numbers I don't want to drop $800 on the Shicks. I could definitely be interested in the Big Valve build. How much does that run and what are the benefits of it? Higher rpm redline? More air/fuel intake and quicker and easier exhaust exertion? And I have already broken the 200whp number on multiple occasions. On 93 octane, with all my mods, 2-3 days after the rebuild was done I pulled 214whp and 223wtq. These numbers were an average of 3 pulls on a dynojet dyno at Lovefab in Buckley, MI. But please give me more info on the Big Valve kit, that sounds fun.

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      The 262's are nice for the price. To be honest I have no dyno numbers of before and after my cams. All I can say is that without a tune for a cam it doesn't make much difference. I had a giac stage 1 tune on my car and put the cams in and hardly noticed a difference. After I got the UM tune programmed for the 262's it made a world of difference. As far as the bigger valves go the motor just pulls from 3500 rpm and on. the caveat to that is that a Big valve head is close to a grand to have done yourself. I paid 2200 for mine since I am on head number 3 on this motor and am tired of having issue after issue. HIgher RPM redline is based on the tune you have and whether its safe to do so (HD valve springs make it safer). if you've broken 200whp then im hoping I've done the same. The only dyno near me never ****ing responds to my messages...its like they don't want free money lol

    6. Member jcsfearless's Avatar
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      04-17-2017 04:19 PM #6
      Cuz here is my mod list:
      Big Valve Head with +1mm intake and +.8mm exhaust ferrea everything with blended bowls and multi angle valve job.
      Autotech 262 Cams
      United Motorsport Cam tune file
      MK4 headgasket (It's a mk3 VR)
      42DD metal intake elbow with 1.8t AIT sensor bung
      Neuspeed intake heat shield with K&N cone filter
      10lb Autotech Flywheel
      And finally, some sort of custom exhaust that I have no idea the diameter of the piping lol.

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      04-17-2017 04:24 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by jcsfearless View Post
      Cuz here is my mod list:
      Big Valve Head with +1mm intake and +.8mm exhaust ferrea everything with blended bowls and multi angle valve job.
      Autotech 262 Cams
      United Motorsport Cam tune file
      MK4 headgasket (It's a mk3 VR)
      42DD metal intake elbow with 1.8t AIT sensor bung
      Neuspeed intake heat shield with K&N cone filter
      10lb Autotech Flywheel
      And finally, some sort of custom exhaust that I have no idea the diameter of the piping lol.
      Ya i would definitely be surprised if you aren't just at the 200whp number. I know the mk3 vr6s make power a little different than the mk4 ones but they are so damn similar. Where are you located at? Got pics?

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    8. Member jcsfearless's Avatar
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      04-17-2017 04:28 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by PlusNoir View Post
      Ya i would definitely be surprised if you aren't just at the 200whp number. I know the mk3 vr6s make power a little different than the mk4 ones but they are so damn similar. Where are you located at? Got pics?

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      I'm in Yuma, AZ. I'd be surprised as well lol.

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      04-17-2017 04:32 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by jcsfearless View Post
      I'm in Yuma, AZ. I'd be surprised as well lol.

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      Oh nice! Do you have 93 octane out there? I lived in LV for a while and only watery 91 haha

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    10. Member jcsfearless's Avatar
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      04-17-2017 04:39 PM #10
      Just 91 but we do have 100 and 110

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    11. Junior Member
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      04-17-2017 04:43 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by jcsfearless View Post
      Just 91 but we do have 100 and 110

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      When i had my VW in LV for a couple months i ran 100 octane fuel the whole time I was there, performance was mehhh but the knocks and pings went away instantly. On your build idk if it makes a difference but west coast 91 has the highest water percentage in fuel. Look up some lab test.

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    12. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      04-17-2017 06:58 PM #12
      Cams, something. The stock ones are well stock.

      I dropped a tenth after I put Schrick 268s in and took the Autotechs out. Not sure who your friends are but I doubt they tested anything well.
      -Paul
      1992 Corrado - ALL MOTOR Drag Project
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning

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      04-18-2017 01:44 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Cams, something. The stock ones are well stock.

      I dropped a tenth after I put Schrick 268s in and took the Autotechs out. Not sure who your friends are but I doubt they tested anything well.
      I think you misinterpreted my comment, or i misrepresented what I was trying to say. I have a multitude on friends with VR6 engines, from the corrado 2.9 to the R32 3.2, some have a ton of mods, some have none, the guys that I know who have the exact same engine as me who have ran autotech 262s or 268s haven't seen dyno number results, we all use the same dyno when we have our quarterly dyno days, and granted there was a 6-7whp increase, but over a 3 pass dyno average that 6-7whp was inconsistent. The powerband was noticeably different and the way the car idled at revved sounded different, but for number wise, it was there. Also, we don't run the 1/4 or the 1/8 mile so we don't habe a clue about those times or their effects, neither do we care as for that isn't what we are shooting for.

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    14. Member Black86GTI's Avatar
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      04-18-2017 09:35 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Cams, something. The stock ones are well stock.

      I dropped a tenth after I put Schrick 268s in and took the Autotechs out. Not sure who your friends are but I doubt they tested anything well.
      Paul is the guy to talk to about VR6 performance but it sounds like you already know everything...

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      04-18-2017 09:39 AM #15
      I definitely don't know everything, but when you have put close to $4000 grand in mods into your vr6 you kinda filter through a lot of parts. I didn't know about the schimmel intake, i had seen other ****ty ones but none that are high quality. That is probably gonna be ordered within a day or 2, even if it doesn't ad 20hp it looks awesome and im sure with inprove a lot of lowend performance

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    16. Member Black86GTI's Avatar
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      04-18-2017 01:43 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by PlusNoir View Post
      I definitely don't know everything, but when you have put close to $4000 grand in mods into your vr6 you kinda filter through a lot of parts. I didn't know about the schimmel intake, i had seen other ****ty ones but none that are high quality. That is probably gonna be ordered within a day or 2, even if it doesn't ad 20hp it looks awesome and im sure with inprove a lot of lowend performance

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      dont waste your time with a schimmel intake for a N/A motor. look into the noobworks VR6 short runner it at least has velocity stacks and a larger plenum. also short runners kills low end power

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      04-18-2017 01:44 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Black86GTI View Post
      dont waste your time with a schimmel intake for a N/A motor. look into the noobworks VR6 short runner it at least has velocity stacks and a larger plenum. also short runners kills low end power
      I was reading about the loss in low end torque, and i do a lot of city driving so i like my lowend torque. Would i be better off power wise to stick with the stock variable geometry intake?

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    18. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      04-18-2017 08:35 PM #18
      The way you guys were testing with just some pulls across random days is the issue. I will leave it at that.
      -Paul
      1992 Corrado - ALL MOTOR Drag Project
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning

    19. Member VR6ix's Avatar
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      04-19-2017 12:39 AM #19
      It's been a while but maybe OP is coming around... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...0-Cam-upgrades

      The best bang for the buck is usually a big shot of nitrous

      To be constructive... you don't mention anything about the exhaust manifolds or downpipes, that's free horsepower just waiting for a die grinder and manual labor. 3" exhaust is another proven upgrade. IF the head porting is good then why not throw valve springs & 268 cams in there. The "custom fabbed short ram intake" sounds like a hot-air intake which will cost you power. And post the 214whp dyno sheets!
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      04-19-2017 12:45 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6ix View Post
      It's been a while but maybe OP is coming around... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...0-Cam-upgrades

      The best bang for the buck is usually a big shot of nitrous

      To be constructive... you don't mention anything about the exhaust manifolds or downpipes, that's free horsepower just waiting for a die grinder and manual labor. 3" exhaust is another proven upgrade. IF the head porting is good then why not throw valve springs & 268 cams in there. The "custom fabbed short ram intake" sounds like a hot-air intake which will cost you power. And post the 214whp dyno sheets!
      It has a full 3" stainless steel exhaust from the headers back, catless too, also has an ichiban wideband o2 sensir for some reason. I always wanted to buy a new set of higher flowing headers but never got a good recommendation. Also the short ram intake isn't so short haha, we used aluminum 4" piping from the throttle body all the way to underneath the fog lights, or at least where the fog lights should be. Along with a 4" maf housing instead of the standard 3". I am going back to the shop this weekend I'll see if they can reprint my 3 passes and my buddies with 268 cams and whole bunch of other mods. Link me a good set of high flow headers. Ty!

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      04-19-2017 12:47 AM #21
      Oh i guess on the OP i said 2.5" piping, it is 3" but after the Borla muffler is 2.5". Which only equates to about 8-10inchs to the exhaust tip. I'll see if i have a good pic of the system. We custom made it, not just threw a straight pipe on there haha

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    22. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      04-19-2017 01:53 AM #22
      I have yet to be pleased with a single header available. I still recommend ported manifolds and the tt 2" downpipe.
      -Paul
      1992 Corrado - ALL MOTOR Drag Project
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning

    23. 04-19-2017 02:42 PM #23
      First of all. Hey Paul it's been about a long minute hope everything is going well for you and the family. 2nd Need a VR6 aka Paul knows his stuff when it comes to The 12v VR6. If you are looking to squeeze as much N/A power out of your 12v VR6 I would recommend this.

      1st I would get bigger valves. The only problem with this is that sometimes it doesn't even help sometimes it does wonders. If you plan on stay stock displacement don't go above 41mm intake and 36mm exhaust or else the uneven air flow can cause a hp reduction. If you plan on going above stock displacement 42mm intake and 36mm exhaust works

      2nd If you can I'd get a pair of DRC268 Race Cams(not even sure he still makes them. John Doherty Race Cams). If you can't get a hold of those(depending on your budget)you can go for Schrick 268's or if you don't mind losing little power down low get TT288's b/c they would work well with your P&P(and possibly BVH if you should so choose to go that route)head. The only thing with TT288's is that most of the time the rev limiter with an after market chip is set at only 7200RPMS which for the most part if using cams that are 268 in duration plus the lift exh/intake is more than enough but The TT288 Cams tend to continue to make power past 7200RPMS. I would say maybe a 7500 or even 7800RPMS set Red Line. Paul if I am off please correct me.

      3rd. Get your hands on a 3.94 R&P Final Drive. It will correct your power band and you want to save gas put a TDI 5th gear in so you can cruise. I did this and finally every mod I had on my car was able to literally work together and also 1st and 2nd gear were a lot of fun. With the 3.94R&P as well as light racing pulleys and an Autotech 10lb. Fly Wheel, it was very easy to get going if you know what I mean. Also if you so choose to go the TT288 Route you will get into the power band that much quicker. The 3.94 R&P doesn't add power it just corrects your power band by lower the gear ratios so that when you redline you end up right at the power band you need but if you do the 288TT and higher redline not sure what that will do. Paul you might need to explain b/c even I don't know that.

      4th. Paul is right. TT down Pipes. Port and Gasket Match your lower intake mani and exhaust manifolds as well. As much even air as possible so as little flow is obstructed as humanely possible.

      5th If you are in a place of high chance of going through puddles I would get a Stock Airbox cheese it out and get a K&N Drop Filter. The problem with a Short Air Ram Intake is that it's great the beginning but the engine compartment heats up way too quickly and once that hot air is the only thing that Short Air Ram Intake gets the air gets way too hot and you actually lose power even over the air box b/c the air box is covered up hence swiss cheese the air box and drop a K&N Filter in. Or if you are not around a lot puddles get a Cold Air Intake. If Turn2 Was still around(God I'm old)I'd say get their CAI but it's not so go with the next best thing. Also Race Pulleys are nice unless you plan on going Super Charged then I wouldn't use them b/c they mess up the S/C.

      6th The only think I can think of after that is to up displacement but that costs a lot of money and usually for each .10th of displacement you usually only get around 10hp/10tq at best. However if you so choose to go this route shop around and be careful b/c your engine could easily get messed up. Other things are higher compression but since you have a MKIV you already have the MKIV Head Gasket giving you 10.1:5 Compression. Unless you want to get higher compression pistons which the results I don't really think are worth the cost also depending on what kind of gas you get in your area you might not even benefit from them.

      Also TT High Flow Cat can help. The TT Exhaust has been proven time and time again to make most power with the rare exception of the 3.0 MSB( think that's what it was called)exhaust.



      Paul if I left anything out or was wrong on anything let me know.
      Last edited by VR6DPLMT; 04-19-2017 at 06:23 PM.

    24. 05-27-2017 08:41 PM #24
      Hey guys was wondering what route I should take. I have a 2002 gti vr6 12v with:
      -unitronic stage 2 ecu tune
      -stage 2 south blend clutch
      -msd coils
      -bfi motor mounts dog bones
      -Raceland ultimo coilovers
      -forge short shifter
      -gli front brake kit
      -new control arms and ball joints
      -cold air intake
      -magna flow exhaust tips and basically straight pipe all the way down the car

      I want to add some gains to the car because the car feels sluggish when I step into the gas. I was talking to my mechanic who did all the mods and he said after the ecu tune he didn't feel a big difference, he recommended I change to a different ecu tune if I wanted more hp(previous owner added the ecu tune). I was thinking of switching to flex fuel then getting a dyno tune, what ideas do yall have for performance mods? Should I get a new ecu tune 1st? Custom ecu tune? Or go straight flex then dyno?

      Also last question if I do get flex fuel will I have to get rid of my unitronic stage 2 and get a custom ecu tune for the new fuel (I always run 93).

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