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    Thread: Does Stage 3/3+ really need a rebuilt engine?

    1. Member
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      04-20-2017 04:16 PM #1
      APR "highly recommends" you rebuild the engine with upgraded internals if you want Stage 3/3+. Another poster here says that quite a few people have gone to Stage 3/3+ without rebuilding the engine. What are people's thoughts on this? If you're just building a street machine with occasional drag racing, do you really need to rebuild the engine? Thanks.

    2. 04-20-2017 04:23 PM #2
      Unless you have the funds to rebuild it if it blows then I would take APR's recommendation. I'm sure it's based on lots of testing and experiencing failures along the way. Not sure what's streets you have in your area but with just the stage 1 tune I find it hard to use the power available. Couldn't imagine stage 3 is very useful for the street.


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    3. 04-20-2017 05:36 PM #3
      I think it's an after the fact CYA. APR said they could not damage the engine under very stringent conditions in their testing. An APR representative also told me in an email that most problems associated with blown engines were due to people mixing and matching parts not designed to be used with the kit. Like different intercoolers, air intakes, etc. etc. And improper installs. Building the engine without a doubt is an expensive insurance policy but after talking to APR through emails, I question how necessary it really is.


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      04-20-2017 08:37 PM #4
      My thinking goes like this.

      If I blow my engine I will need to replace the parts I was going to replace to rebuild my engine anyway so I am willing to risk what I am doing. Besides if I blow it I will consider a 2.5 swap at that point and be able to justify it to myself.

      I am stage 3, not APR, and will be upgrading fuel in near future. So while not the same similar and I also have it as my daily driver with the desire to drag and stuff every now and then.
      Last edited by Slugosaurus; 04-20-2017 at 11:42 PM.

    5. Member JLCVDUB's Avatar
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      04-20-2017 09:03 PM #5
      I know someone who tried to blow it up, and it didn't happen despite all the issues the kit had. That's not to say that it's not possible, but these engines are pretty strong.


      While some may not agree, most around the community feel that the tune needs some work.
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      04-20-2017 10:44 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by ckprofitt View Post
      I think it's an after the fact CYA. APR said they could not damage the engine under very stringent conditions in their testing. An APR representative also told me in an email that most problems associated with blown engines were due to people mixing and matching parts not designed to be used with the kit. Like different intercoolers, air intakes, etc. etc. And improper installs. Building the engine without a doubt is an expensive insurance policy but after talking to APR through emails, I question how necessary it really is.


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      So are you not planning to rebuild you engine now? At wookies, it sound d like you were begrudgingly planning to build the engine.

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      04-20-2017 11:06 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by JLCVDUB View Post
      I know someone who tried to blow it up, and it didn't happen despite all the issues the kit had. That's not to say that it's not possible, but these engines are pretty strong.


      While some may not agree, most around the community feel that the tune needs some work.
      Can you explain the issues with the kit? I haven't heard about this. Thanks!

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      04-21-2017 12:51 AM #8
      Someone posted on the mqb facebook page that his "discounted" dealer price for a gen3 ea888 longblock was just above $10k. Definitely makes you think a little before pushing the limits.

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      04-21-2017 01:23 AM #9
      will it blow up? its possible... anytime you raise output well beyond stock, damage is possible. Does it mean it'll instantly happen? No. Could it? Yes. APR is covering themselves by telling you its recommended because the added stress could cause damage to the engine... Its a gamble, you could go many miles without issues on stage 3, or its possible you could experience damage right away...Welcome to modifying vehicles.

    10. 04-21-2017 06:39 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by BMPR324me View Post
      So are you not planning to rebuild you engine now? At wookies, it sound d like you were begrudgingly planning to build the engine.
      I am going to build the engine. I just don't know if it's necessary. Begrudgingly is a good word choice.


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      04-21-2017 09:53 AM #11
      I decided not to rebuild with stage 3 power though if I decide to make the jump to 3+ down the road then I'll likely make the investment. But based on what I've seen with the Mk6 stg 3 experiences, I'm pretty comfortable with things. Also if I were planning to hammer on it every day then perhaps I'd think twice about it as well.


      B.

    12. 04-21-2017 10:13 AM #12
      On my last vehicle (Fiesta ST) I went full out with the mods because it was so cheap to do so and such a fast, good handling car from the start. At the full stage 3 the biggest issue I had was finding consistent good 93 octane fuel. Something to keep in mind when tuning to the limits.


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      04-21-2017 11:45 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by 9216VGTi View Post
      On my last vehicle (Fiesta ST) I went full out with the mods because it was so cheap to do so and such a fast, good handling car from the start. At the full stage 3 the biggest issue I had was finding consistent good 93 octane fuel. Something to keep in mind when tuning to the limits.


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      APR has a 91 Oct Stage 3 tune. A previous poster said that the APR stage 3 tune had "issues" - can anyone comment about that? I never heard about the issues before. Thanks.

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      04-21-2017 11:50 AM #14
      This Vortex thread would be a good place to start: The-APR-Stage-3-and-3-club-The-all-about-it-thread

      B.

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      04-21-2017 12:10 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by bsmith75 View Post
      This Vortex thread would be a good place to start: The-APR-Stage-3-and-3-club-The-all-about-it-thread

      B.
      perfect! Thanks.

    16. Member CominGabriel's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 01:25 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by JLCVDUB View Post
      I know someone who tried to blow it up, and it didn't happen despite all the issues the kit had. That's not to say that it's not possible, but these engines are pretty strong.

      While some may not agree, most around the community feel that the tune needs some work.
      You see, I know of people who have really built their MK4 R32's, MK6R's and have went boom just driving casually, yeah they beat on it to, but there are so many factors in what can go wrong with the motor.

      People should add a list here on what installs, parts, tunes, vw engines, everything and anything that they have learned about that have caused a motors to go boom.

      I can list a bunch, but detonation is one really bad one. And often due to tuning, wrong parts installed or incorrectly installed, etc...

      I would say, make sure you get a reputable shop, like APTuning, to do the install of the kit, don't go fiddling with things and abuse the crap out of it, and you will more likely to have less issues. But, you do have to realize something, add significant more stress to anything, it will have a shorter life.

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      04-21-2017 05:38 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by CominGabriel View Post
      You see, I know of people who have really built their MK4 R32's, MK6R's and have went boom just driving casually, yeah they beat on it to, but there are so many factors in what can go wrong with the motor.

      People should add a list here on what installs, parts, tunes, vw engines, everything and anything that they have learned about that have caused a motors to go boom.

      I can list a bunch, but detonation is one really bad one. And often due to tuning, wrong parts installed or incorrectly installed, etc...

      I would say, make sure you get a reputable shop, like APTuning, to do the install of the kit, don't go fiddling with things and abuse the crap out of it, and you will more likely to have less issues. But, you do have to realize something, add significant more stress to anything, it will have a shorter life.
      but, correct me if I'm wrong, if you only hit on the gas occasionally, it won't make a significant difference to longevity right? In real life, I'd only use the power 1% of 1% of the time. Out of 100,000 miles, maybe a total of 10 miles of WOT.

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      04-21-2017 09:01 PM #18
      I seriously can't believe you would be lame enough to make a post like this.

      You are asking for trouble without a rebuild!
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    19. Member PDXA4's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 10:17 PM #19
      Judging by one engine I saw a few days ago at a local shop, having a built engine would be a very wise idea.
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    20. 04-22-2017 04:08 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by PDXA4 View Post
      Judging by one engine I saw a few days ago at a local shop, having a built engine would be a very wise idea.
      Ok guys so how much different is the stage 3 or 3+ from a stage 2 to require a built engine? Yes I know there is more power but at what HP/tq level is someone going to say it must be built?? I.e. At 400hp crank no need at 450hp maybe, at 500hp and above definitely?? I think it depends if connecting rods and bunch of other stuff have stress fractures that can't even handle 400hp can fail. Like another posted said detonation can ruin piston heads etc. I would refer back to vw which I think have tested this little monster 2.0 to know its limits . I know it's posted somewhere on www. Usually German engineering want the all the details of any design and do HALT testing. Just my .02 cents


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      04-23-2017 10:23 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by supesgolfr View Post
      Can you explain the issues with the kit? I haven't heard about this. Thanks!
      Quote Originally Posted by bsmith75 View Post
      This Vortex thread would be a good place to start: The-APR-Stage-3-and-3-club-The-all-about-it-thread

      B.
      That thread should get you started, and you'll find some accounts on the MQB FB Page as well... Just remember that you should put your sensationalism meter on high, and make an informed judgement, rather than a knee-jerk reaction. Honestly, it's good thing to have this information at your finger tips, and things will only get better from here.

      Quote Originally Posted by CominGabriel View Post
      You see, I know of people who have really built their MK4 R32's, MK6R's and have went boom just driving casually, yeah they beat on it to, but there are so many factors in what can go wrong with the motor.

      People should add a list here on what installs, parts, tunes, vw engines, everything and anything that they have learned about that have caused a motors to go boom.

      I can list a bunch, but detonation is one really bad one. And often due to tuning, wrong parts installed or incorrectly installed, etc...

      I would say, make sure you get a reputable shop, like APTuning, to do the install of the kit, don't go fiddling with things and abuse the crap out of it, and you will more likely to have less issues. But, you do have to realize something, add significant more stress to anything, it will have a shorter life.

      You're right, anything can happen.

      Bottom line is, if you're going to mod anything, be prepared for the possibility of having to "pay-to-play".
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    22. Member JLCVDUB's Avatar
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      04-23-2017 10:27 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by PDXA4 View Post
      Judging by one engine I saw a few days ago at a local shop, having a built engine would be a very wise idea.



      All things considered, it wasn't really all that bad.
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