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    Thread: Detailing Forum "How-To"

    1. Member audiphile's Avatar
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      09-17-2003 10:15 PM #26
      hmm... tricks....
      the chamois (a.k.a. "shammy") is your friend. Headliner stains can even be removed by a bit of all-purpose automotive cleaner on a chamois.
      if you have access to compressed air, that, along with a detailing brush (tooth brush) will make quick work of dash/doors... great for vents and speaker grilles. Just spray the dash/door liberally with cleaner, go into any cracks with the brush, blow out the liquid with the gun, wipe clean with a cloth.
      I am a detailer if you haven't guessed... I'll peak my head in again to see if there's any questions I can help with.
      dasjettakartell - immortalized on the wall, forgotten on the floor

    2. Moderator Jesstzn's Avatar
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      09-17-2003 10:42 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by audiphile »
      hmm... tricks....

      if you have access to compressed air, that, along with a detailing brush (tooth brush) will make quick work of dash/doors... great for vents and speaker grilles. Just spray the dash/door liberally with cleaner, go into any cracks with the brush, blow out the liquid with the gun, wipe clean with a cloth.

      How does it sit with someones expensive speakers after you squirted cleaner in them then blew all the crud into them.. Sure glad your not detailing my car

    3. Member audiphile's Avatar
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      09-18-2003 06:13 PM #28
      I dunno, ask the auction house
      Obviously doing what I said is a good idea with stock speakers in a well protected grille. I don't do it in my car, because I have infinity components.
      I'm glad I'm not detailing your car too.
      EDIT: this is supposed to be a how-to thread anyways, obviously take anything posted on the internet using your own discretion. If it makes you feel better I will add a disclaimer to the end of each post I make in this thread, that way you won't pollute this supposed to be helpful thread with useless comments.



      Modified by audiphile at 8:01 PM 9-18-2003
      dasjettakartell - immortalized on the wall, forgotten on the floor

    4. Banned SAVwKO's Avatar
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      09-19-2003 08:07 AM #29
      Have any of you tried a product called "Dry Wash?" It's a light green liquid in a spray bottle. You never have to use water on your car, and you can clean the whole car with this stuff, even the tires and rims. It's a cleaner/protectant. Spray it onto a section of the car, use one rag to wipe it in, making a cloudy area on your car, then take a second rag and wipe it off, leaving one shiny and smooth surface. If you want, take a third rag and go over the car again to get any left over film off. Now most of you may be thinking, "this stuff must scratch the car if you don't rinse it first." Well...no. It doesn't, and if any of you can find this stuff, I'd recommend buying it.

    5. Moderator Jesstzn's Avatar
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      09-19-2003 10:27 AM #30
      Quote, originally posted by truckn13 »
      Have any of you tried a product called "Dry Wash?" It's a light green liquid in a spray bottle. Now most of you may be thinking, "this stuff must scratch the car if you don't rinse it first." Well...no. It doesn't, and if any of you can find this stuff, I'd recommend buying it.

      I will leave that for you to use. The idea of properly washing is to lift the particles away from and off the paint. We have a Dry Wash dealer here .. His car always looks nice with a great shine. Untill you look in the light... it is so badly swirled the paint nearly looks flat. Even the use of Quick Detailer on an overly dusty car will produce swirling.

    6. 09-25-2003 07:14 PM #31
      It is okay to put the dressing on the black plastic parts before washing the car???

    7. 09-28-2003 04:25 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by mk4driver22 »
      I have found that a baby bottle brush works great to clean mesh/hard-to-clean wheels. They come in several different levels of brisel stiffness, find one that is not to stiff but will still clean without scratching.

      That's exactly what I was going to say, except you want to stay away from the 'bristle' style brushes as they are intended to very thoroughly SCRUB milk and junk out of bottles, and may scratch painted wheels (of which 100% of newer VW's come with). I use the sponge style bottle cleaner, and it's basically a sponge wrapped up aroung a coat-hanger like wire that is set into a plastic handle.. a little torqueing back and forth and the wire breaks and you've got a sponge on a wire. What I do next is, I take that wire and actually stick it into the end of my drill. Lock it down, spray some SimpleGreen (vary concentration based on how much crap is on your rims - you never want to use harsh 'wheel cleaner' chemicals) and then you can just stick your spinning sponge cleaner in all the little places I used to get hand cramps trying to get my fingers in. Spray it off with some nice cold water and you're good.
      As far as Glass cleaner, I think I found "The One" with this. It's called SpryWay. I got mine at Costco (it might be at Sam's club too), and it came in a six bottle pack for about eight bucks I think. It totally rocks for three reasons:
      1 It's a foam, so you can see where it's at, it doesn't run (at all unless you put too much) and a little goes a long way
      2 It is ALWAYS streak free. You could wipe it across your window and when it dried you'd have no streaks (I've tested this!);
      and 3 It's safe for all surfaces so if you accidentally get some on your leather door inserts or on your seats you don't have to worry about dis-coloration or the leather drying out. Plus, it just smells really good and leaves a fresh clean scent in the car that is not overpowering. I learned about this stuff from a guy who replaced my windshield once, and he gave me the rest of his bottle and told me where to get it. A couple years later I had a different windshield replaced, and this other guy was also using it, so I think a lot professionals know about it.
      One thing that a friend-of-the-family told me (who has owned a family run Auto shop for the last 32yrs - he's done it for 18 of them) is that most of the major products out there are comprised of almost all the same ingredients... i.e. you are not going to get much of a better product going from 3M to Meguires to Mothers to any 'professional' grade stuff. I use Meguires because they have a very large line of different products that meet specific needs, and from many of the car shows that have winning cars a good portion of them use Meguires too. A really cool thing to do is check out this website:
      http://www.meguiars.com/carrx.cfm
      It's a tool that recommends what products to use, because they recognize that someone who lives with sea-salt blow up in SanFrancisco is going to have different needs than someone who endures 112 degree heat in Phoenix, ya know? It takes into account almost everything about how your car is damaged and suggests the right product.

      Oh, and lastly (sorry for the long post) I would highly recommend spending the $30-40 on a Random Orbit buffer. They make polishing, waxing (applying AND removing) and other things just that muck easier, and since it's Random Orbit you don't have to worry about swirl marks as much.

    8. 09-28-2003 04:33 PM #33
      Quote, originally posted by truckn13 »
      Have any of you tried a product called "Dry Wash?" It's a light green liquid in a spray bottle. You never have to use water on your car, and you can clean the whole car with this stuff, even the tires and rims. It's a cleaner/protectant. Spray it onto a section of the car, use one rag to wipe it in, making a cloudy area on your car, then take a second rag and wipe it off, leaving one shiny and smooth surface. If you want, take a third rag and go over the car again to get any left over film off. Now most of you may be thinking, "this stuff must scratch the car if you don't rinse it first." Well...no. It doesn't, and if any of you can find this stuff, I'd recommend buying it.

      As I said in my previous post, I have a good friend that owns a body shop. I asked him if there was any way to clean your car in between washings if you have a good wax on there.. he was shaking his head no even before I finished the sentence! You should always use a good quality "car shampoo" to wash your car before you try to remove dirt for several reasons.. you need to LIFT the dirt away from your car, and the foam in the wash doesn that. You also need to remove the grease, pollutants, oxidants, and minute particles that get physcially embedded in the paint (before you use a clay bar for them), and you can't do that if you don't have any water or soap to carry away the top layers of dirt. Simple answer, there are NO shortcuts for proper vehicle maintenance, inside or outside of your car.

    9. 09-28-2003 05:31 PM #34
      Quote, originally posted by Golf GTi 8v »
      What happens if you wax your car without removing old wax or using dawn dish soap first?

      Modified by Golf GTi 8v at 1:31 PM 9-2-2003

      Please don't EVER USE ANY TYPE OF DISH SOAP ON YOUR CAR!!! Besides the wax, which is a protective layer over the paint, paint in itself actually does have it's own nutrients and minerals that give it it's elasticity and deep gloss... if you use dish soap or any type of soap that breaks down those nutrients, your paint will start cracking earlier, it'll look dry all the time, you won't be able to make it look good no matter what you do. If you have done this, then you need to go buy some type of glaze for your car, I recommend Meguires no 7 Show Car Glaze. You apply it to the car like wax, then you let it SIT, for at least 30mins but I recommend an hour. Basically doing that will allow your paint to soak up all of the nutrients it needs to look deep and glossy again and then you just wipe or buff off the excess..
      As far as removing the wax, you don't need to. Wax will come off with washings over time, and if you have properly prepped the paint surface before applying wax, there is nothing underneath the wax that needs to be removed. Basically you just wash like normal, attend to any surface defects you might have, and then wax. Here's my whole routine, since I've basically said it all anyways:
      1 Wash/Dry (Once a week or as needed for conditions) Wash car IN SHADE, or wait for dusk if you can do a lot of detail work inside your garage (note: regarding drive through car washes...I personally wouldn't take my car through anything that I wouldn't WALK through. I have in the past gone through a 'touchless' wash when it has rained for a solid week or more and it wasn't feasable for me to do it by hand, and while I don't recommend it because those water jets are really high preasure, if you have to it should be okay, just make sure you are ALWAYS keeping a good protective layer of wax on your car). Use a good Car Shampoo and never ever ever any household cleaners, like dish soap. If you have bird droppings or tar, get a non-chemical cleaner designed for bug and tar and just let it sit for 5 or 10 mins (mine favorite is Turtle Wax Bug and Tar and Sap because it's a conditioning oil-based solution that breaks down the contaminents and actually separates it from the car so you damage to the paint) , it should come right off. Dry your car. A word on Micro Fiber Towels: be very cautious of which ones you buy before using on paint. Look for MF towels that are DESIGNED to be used on cars. There are many many different types of MF towels that range from 20,000 TC to 100,000+ TC, and some are made with more polymers that are better for cleaning and don't work as well on cars. The polymers in some MF towels are not specifically abrasive, but, contrary to popular belief, the hooking action of some polymers can damage clear coat, creating a 'glaze' effect on your paint. If you could imagine taking a plastic bag and balling it up and rubbing on your car, it's like that. . That's why they are able to clean so effectively is because of the hooking/scraping action. I have found a few companies and local shops that sell 100% Pure Terry Cloth MF towels, and I use those with a leather chamoise. The chamoise removes a majority of the water and then detail with the 100% Terry cloth MF towels. Also, open all of your doors, trunk, and hood and close a couple of times to get water beads out of the cracks so you can dry em up, and roll your windows down and up a couple of times. If you just bought regular terry cloth towels, wash and dry them a couple times to break off loose threads and fibers so they don't get left on your car. Never use fabric softener when drying any towels or pads you are going to use on your car.
      2 Clay Bar (about twice a year). If you are washing your car, and you take your bare hand and go over it and you can feel grit or little sand particles that don't wash off, or basically your car just does NOT feel like glass, you need to do this. It is AMAZING to see the difference if you've never done it. My car was brand new, and after a year I could feel a lot of that becuase of freeway miles. The paint felt like GLASS after I was finished, I was exstatic! It also removes oxidation that the shampoo can't get off (you'll see it because the clay is usually yellow and it'll start turning reddish-brown even though you just finished washing your car).
      3 Remove Paint Flaws (as necessary). The Clay Bar will help some, but for more use a swirl remover and a RA buffer if you can, or when you haven't clay-barred. If the scratch or imperfection doesn't come out, got to a Fine Cut cleaner, and then if not that a Medium Cut cleaner. If it stil doesn't come out, you may want to consult a body shop, because repairs that go beyond that are very sensitive and very circumstantial on how they are treated. Always use a foam pad with the RA buffer, as wool pads can be much too abrasive, and terry cloth pads are not as smooth as foam and won't come out as smooth. You might want to use wool if you are already up to the Medium Cut cleaner. Remember, don't overdue it - when youf fix these imperfections you are removing clear coat or paint to do it, so don't go crazy be conservative, and don't press to hard on the buffer, let the movement do the work (can you move your arms around 3 THOUSAND times a minute? I sure can't! ).
      4 Surface Prep (every three months or about as often as oil change). Use a swirl remover or a fine cut cleaner and just go over the car to remove any very minor paint imperfections. If an area of the car really doesn't have any, just go over lightly. This does not have to be very rough, becuase a lot of the imperfections are hidden with wax if they are minor enough.
      5 Polish (at least six times a year, but you can every month if you feel like it!) Use a Glaze or Polisher that is not as abrasive as Swirl remover to give your car that last mirror polish. I recommend the glaze, especially on dark cars, because it gives the paint nutrients that will help with scratch repair in the future, and really give it a nice deep deep gloss (almost looks like you have a layer of glass over your paint [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] ). This is the step that will take your car from "nice" to "Daayyuuuummmmm!". Just apply it like you would swirl remover, let it sit for a few, and then buff it off.
      6 Protect/Wax (once a month). Get a really high quality CARNUBA based wax and apply it in non-repetitive patterns on your ride. let it dry until it will almost just brush off (it will if it is a good quality wax) and then buff it off. Never use circulare motions if doing by hand. These can actually be mistaken for swirl marks. Use big oval motions going first up and down for a couple strokes then left to right for a fews. This should keep things random enough to look really nice! Or just use a RA buffer . I can't stress enough how easy a RA buffer makes things for you! I recommend a liquid wax most of the time - they are just easier to work with and faster to apply, plus they tend to go on more even and you don't accidentally put on too much. You CAN put on too much wax... only the part that touches the car bonds to the paint, anything else comes off anyways and just makes your job a big pain in the arse. I use Meguires High Tech Yellow 26 (because it works BOMB with clear coat..) or there are many good ones out there. After you finish buffing it off, if there is any residue just follow up with Detailers Mist, or I use Meguires Final Inspection no 34. Don't go for Gimic waxes - i.e. "You never have to wax your car again! You can take a flame thrower to it and it'll never damage!!" No, they don't 'wax' airplanes and no wax or anything else you could put on by hand out of a little bottle could withstand flamethrowers . Come on, people! Didn't your Mommy and Daddy ever tell you if it's too good to be true, it probably is??!!
      6 Up-keep/Touch-up (daily, bi-daily, whenever needed). I have a California duster. I have heard mixed things about it, but I use it and it works well, as long as the car is DUSTY. Not DIRTY, just DUSTY. I think that's were people go wrong. If you push dirt around on your car, it scratches. Dust will come off and as long as it's not too thick, it won't scratch anything. You can also take the brush part off and throw it in the washer (liquid soap, no fabric softener same as your terry cloth towels). I use Mequires no 34 Final Inspection to polish it back up after dusting. Remember, if you have to do more than dusting, you're BACK AT STEP 1! I wash my car sometimes three times a week because I live in a state where it is impossible for the weather guy/gal to be correct.
      So here is the schedule:
      Daily (just like anything else, you gotta clean your toys before you put them away! : Dust and detail.
      Weekly: Wash/Dry.
      Monthy: Polish and Wax.
      Three-months (oil change schedule): Suface prep, AND removing more than minor paint flaws.
      Six-Months (March after Winter, September after summer): Clay Bar for deeper settled contaminents.
      You think, "Why wouldn't I take out scratches and more-than-minor defects when they come up, and not wait three months?". Well, simply put, because it's easier that way. It takes a good three to four hours to finish everything (that's WITH a RA Buffer and after some experience!), and you don't want to put yourself through all of that when you are going to do it in one or two months anyways. If the defect is major enough that it bugs you that much, you should probably take it to a shop and have them check it out anyways. Rule of thumb, if it catches your fingernail when you lightly drag over it, or if it is wider than a dime, you probably need some professional help, up to and including re-painting.
      Good luck y'all! Hope this helps! This is all my experience, and I don't work for a body-shop, but I have put a lot of personal time into my ride and have done a lot of homework a long the way, so IMO are defenitely appreciated! Also I don't work for Meguires, I just have had good experience with them, and in my opinion you should keep one line of products because they're usually designed to work with each other.
      EDIT: I changed my mind about MicroFiber Towels.. see above in Wash/Dry! [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      EDIT: I corrected my view on MF towels to be less biased.
      EDIT: Removed the word 'oil' and replaced with 'nutrients' - some people were getting anal about my terminology If you know what I'm talking about, then just leave it alone!!!



      Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 7:18 PM 11-9-2003

    10. Moderator Jesstzn's Avatar
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      10-02-2003 06:58 PM #35
      Quote, originally posted by SN2BDNGRZB55 »
      1 Wash/Dry A word on Micro Fiber Towels: be very cautious of which ones you buy before using on paint. Look for MF towels that are DESIGNED to be used on cars. and that say they are 100% Cotton Terry cloth. Contrary to popular believe, some MF towels are actually made up partially of polyesther/polymers (plastics basically) that are not abrasive, but are not soft either. I use a leather chamoise and MF TERRY-CLOTH towels- remove a majority of the water with chamoise and then detail with the 100% Terry cloth MF towels.

      Can you tell me where to buy 100% Terry Cloth MF towels?
      Every MF towel I have seen/bought is no terry cloth.
      The secret of the Microfiber towel is a state-of-the-art matrix of polyester and polyamide weave. Usually 75/80% polyester and 20/25% polyamide.
      Microfiber cloths are made from a new blend of 70% Polyester and 30% Polyamide. A single strand of microfiber is approximately 1/20th the diameter of a strand of silk. There are over 90,000 micro fibers per square inch of cloth. And each average microfiber terry cloth measures 15" x 15". That's over 20 million fibers in 1 cloth. These tiny micro fibers disperse dirt, grime, film, dust, and collect it deep in the cloth to be rinsed away when washed. Re-use over and over, microfiber cloths usually last for years of use.


    11. 10-04-2003 10:18 AM #36
      Quote, originally posted by Jesstzn »
      Can you tell me where to buy 100% Terry Cloth MF towels?
      Every MF towel I have seen/bought is no terry cloth.
      The secret of the Microfiber towel is a state-of-the-art matrix of polyester and polyamide weave. Usually 75/80% polyester and 20/25% polyamide.
      Microfiber cloths are made from a new blend of 70% Polyester and 30% Polyamide. A single strand of microfiber is approximately 1/20th the diameter of a strand of silk. There are over 90,000 micro fibers per square inch of cloth. And each average microfiber terry cloth measures 15" x 15". That's over 20 million fibers in 1 cloth. These tiny micro fibers disperse dirt, grime, film, dust, and collect it deep in the cloth to be rinsed away when washed. Re-use over and over, microfiber cloths usually last for years of use.

      This is what I thought too, and that's why I avoided MF towels before. Being a MicroFiber towel just means that it was manufactured in such a way that there are 10's of thousands of strands per inch. There is no set number, and I have seen towels anywhere from 40,000 TC to over 100,000 TC (although over 100,000 is usally a polly/blend and not Terry Cloth). I purchased mine at Costco, and it was $9 for 12 16" x 16" towels! They are 100% Terry, and here is a link of another company that does the same thing! http://www.microfiberplus.com/
      I think the 100% Terry MF towels are relatively new, and they were probably brought about by the demand by the automotive detailing industry. The main difference between the polymide towels and the pure Terry towels is that the polymide towels have those polymers, which do make better 'grabbing' action on hard surfaces and thus better for cleaning, but to BE better at cleaning hard surfaces it is actually 'scraping' the surface in a sense and that is the kind of thing you don't want to use on a nice painted surface, especially clear coat on dark paint! Look around and you can find one in the area usually. Hope this helps!

    12. 10-09-2003 11:11 PM #37
      one to one vinegar to water, or bar keepers friend for water spotted glass.
      Best glass cleaner for unspotted glass is Stoner brand invisible glass cleaner

      or... http://www.invisibleglass.com/


      Modified by ChrisG at 8:20 PM 10-9-2003

    13. 10-22-2003 11:55 AM #38
      Quote, originally posted by Jesstzn »
      Gum on the carpet/upholstery
      I tried the freezing method to remove it but instead of ice I took a can of "Canned Air" used for cleaning computers. I turned it upside down and sprayed the gum. It froze instantly then a little rubbing with the finger nails lifted it right out and I had the shop vac there and sucked it up.
      Modified by Jesstzn at 7:52 AM 9-1-2003

      Great suggestion! Thanks for the tip.

    14. Member Triumph's Avatar
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      10-27-2003 02:15 PM #39
      Quote, originally posted by SN2BDNGRZB55 »
      A word on Micro Fiber Towels: be very cautious of which ones you buy before using on paint. Look for MF towels that are DESIGNED to be used on cars. and that say they are 100% Cotton Terry cloth. Contrary to popular believe, some MF towels are actually made up partially of polyesther/polymers (plastics basically) that are not abrasive, but are not soft either. If you could imagine taking a plastic bag and balling it up and rubbing on your car, it's like that. You can glaze the paint and also scratch it, especially clear coat on a black car . I use a leather chamoise and MF TERRY-CLOTH towels- remove a majority of the water with chamoise and then detail with the 100% Terry cloth MF towels.

      I completely disagree with SN2BDNGRZB55's assessment of a MF towel. MF towels are generally accepted to be made of 70% polyester, 30% polyamide (or maybe 80/20), NOT cotton, and they include a very high strand count. They will NOT scratch your paint. They will absorb 7 times more water than any cotton towel, thin weave or not.
      There may be some confusion because some resellers are calling their MF towels "Terry Towels," but they then go on to explain that they are composed of 70/30 polyester/polyamide. Pakshak is one such reseller. You can learn more about MF towels at the following links:
      http://www.microfibertech.com/
      http://www.properautocare.com/micwhatbigde.html
      http://www.pakshak.com
      I've never read here, or on Autopia, anything about MF towels being made out of cotton. If you have any doubt about the quality of a towel, do the CD test. Take a blank CD-R, which is much softer than any auto paint, rub the towel over it, and look for scratches. A MF won't scratch the CD.


      Modified by Triumph at 2:23 PM 10-27-2003
      -Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog

      I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to speed around the city, keeping its speed over fifty, and if its speed dropped, the bus would explode! I think it was called, "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."

    15. 10-27-2003 06:00 PM #40
      Quote, originally posted by Triumph »
      I completely disagree with SN2BDNGRZB55's assessment of a MF towel. MF towels are generally accepted to be made of 70% polyester, 30% polyamide (or maybe 80/20), NOT cotton, and they include a very high strand count. They will NOT scratch your paint. They will absorb 7 times more water than any cotton towel, thin weave or not.
      Modified by Triumph at 2:23 PM 10-27-2003

      You can disagree all you want, and you are entitled to your opinion. The reality is, though, that there ARE 100% Terry Cloth MF towels out there; The definition of MF does NOT mean that there has to be polyester or polymides just that there are a certain amount of thread counts per square inch (10's of thousands); and, that some towels with polymides DO scratch paint. I stated my EXPERIENCE (that a MF towel with polymers did glaze/scratch my paint) and was just advising people of a better product available to protect them of it. I did also say (if you read it) that you should use MF towels specifically designed for car detailing, so if there is a good one that included polymers, than so be it - I wouldn't buy it but to each his own.
      I never stated that all polymide towels will scratch paint, but how do you choose between the ones that do? Wouldn't it make sense to eliminate the possibility and just buy a Terry Cloth MF towel in the first place? Your entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean it's right. I'm sorry that your reality is clouded by the past - just because in the past most MF towels were made with polymers doesn't mean that all towels in the future have too.... don't you think that a company that really cares about the towel you use on your car would eventually develop a way to make a Terry Cloth MF towel?? Well, guess what they have. And, if you want to continue using polymer towels because they are "generally accepted", then by all means go ahead...I'm just giving people info based on my experience in hopes they can use it, not trying to say I'm right. Are you?
      J
      EDIT: I did a pretty detailed reply to someones question on Terry MF towels above, you should maybe check out the link I posted for http://www.microfiberplus.com.....


      Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 3:23 PM 10-27-2003

    16. Member Triumph's Avatar
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      10-27-2003 07:39 PM #41
      Obviously this website is promoting their own product, that's why they can make such outlandish statements as "You should, as a rule, avoid any cloth material that is not 100% natural. Stay away from polyester, rayon, nylon, and the like." This goes against my experience, and the experience of hundred of professional and semi-professional detailers at the Autopia forums. Surely, there are bad MF towels out there, which is true for any product. And obviously these bad products are not the ones being used by professional detailers. But I repeat, the good MF towels do not need to be made from natural materials, and will not scratch your paint. I wouldn't even consider that an opinion, as it's been tested countless times.
      Quote »
      Contrary to popular believe, some MF towels are actually made up partially of polyesther/polymers (plastics basically) that are not abrasive, but are not soft either. If you could imagine taking a plastic bag and balling it up and rubbing on your car, it's like that.

      That isn't contrary to popular belief. All of the popular MF towels are made from a polyester mixture. The very website you linked to even says that polyester MF fibers can be soft yet abrasive. (which I don't necessarily agree with) The plastic bag analogy isn't even close to being true.
      Quote »
      A word on Micro Fiber Towels: be very cautious of which ones you buy before using on paint. Look for MF towels that are DESIGNED to be used on cars. and that say they are 100% Cotton Terry cloth.

      If you would just remove the bolded part, then I would be happy. Let's not turn the thread into an argument, because this isn't the place for it. The basic problem is that you would like to steer people away from ALL MF towels, and only use 100% cotton. You are misrepresenting MF towels, and a F.A.Q. is the worst place for misinformation. I say there is absolutely no need "just be on the safe side" and steer clear of all MF towels.
      -Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog

      I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to speed around the city, keeping its speed over fifty, and if its speed dropped, the bus would explode! I think it was called, "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."

    17. 10-28-2003 12:04 AM #42
      Quote, originally posted by Triumph »
      Obviously this website is promoting their own product, that's why they can make such outlandish statements as "You should, as a rule, avoid any cloth material that is not 100% natural. Stay away from polyester, rayon, nylon, and the like." This goes against my experience, and the experience of hundred of professional and semi-professional detailers at the Autopia forums. Surely, there are bad MF towels out there, which is true for any product. And obviously these bad products are not the ones being used by professional detailers. But I repeat, the good MF towels do not need to be made from natural materials, and will not scratch your paint. I wouldn't even consider that an opinion, as it's been tested countless times.

      I didn't buy from that website. I actually purchased my towels before looking up a website - I just posted that in reference to answering a question and recommended people look online and look around. I said I bought mine at Costco. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Quote, originally posted by Triumph »
      That isn't contrary to popular belief. All of the popular MF towels are made from a polyester mixture. The very website you linked to even says that polyester MF fibers can be soft yet abrasive. (which I don't necessarily agree with) The plastic bag analogy isn't even close to being true.

      You're right, that sentence seemed a little off.. It didn't turn out the way I meant it to. What I meant was that most people think that all MF towels are very soft, when indeed there are some that have more polymers and are better for cleaning and not good for paint. Thanks for pointing that out (as you can see from my FAQ, I was typing a lot! )
      Quote, originally posted by Triumph »
      If you would just remove the bolded part, then I would be happy. Let's not turn the thread into an argument, because this isn't the place for it. The basic problem is that you would like to steer people away from ALL MF towels, and only use 100% cotton. You are misrepresenting MF towels, and a F.A.Q. is the worst place for misinformation. I say there is absolutely no need "just be on the safe side" and steer clear of all MF towels.

      Sorry, I didn't mean to mis-represent ALL MF towels, and I defenitely wasn't steering people away from MF. That is not quite accurate, considering I explained my preferences... but I did update the info to be less biased, although I still prefer 100% pure Terry MF towels.
      J

    18. Member Triumph's Avatar
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      10-29-2003 08:28 PM #43
      Here's a very helpful beginner's guide to using the Porter Cable random orbital buffer. Explains all about the different pads, and has good advice for what product/pad combinaions work well for differing needs.
      Link
      -Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog

      I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to speed around the city, keeping its speed over fifty, and if its speed dropped, the bus would explode! I think it was called, "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."

    19. 11-09-2003 11:43 AM #44
      Excuse me, but who told you there are "oils" in today's modern high solid clear coats?
      These new generation (starting in the late 80's) are low solvent/high solid urethanes, and there are no "oils" left in the clear following the OEM paint assembly plants bake process. It removes the main solvent carrier, which is an emulsion of water and a hydrocarbon in the process.
      The closest thing that you can lay your hands on to a modern clear is plastic, it is a chemical cousin of today's clears, just less porus.
      Many of the products you apply to the clear when waxing or polishing due contain petroluem distillates and some polydimethalsiloxanes or polyaminosiloxanes, but these are not true "oils".
      Just attempting to clear up some "old wives tales" that are continually perpertrated by old school product sales/marketing types.
      Ketch

    20. 11-09-2003 04:39 PM #45
      I am on your bus! Poly synthetic and urethane blends are what most car makers use as flux in there paint which is usually not there paint but PPGs or any of the other makers they sub out for their production needs.

    21. 11-09-2003 08:08 PM #46
      How about "ALL" vehicle manufacturers, all 15 majors use.
      They don't use old akiloid enamels or lacquers, they use high solid materials.
      Even the "refinish" materials used by any accredited body shop is high solid/low solvent material, it's the "law" of the land.

      A big difference in the chemistry of OEM assembly plant materials vs "body shop", but in reality, it is only in the curing of the materials that is different due to the chemistry, both are high solid/low solvent materials.
      Ketch
      Ketch

    22. 11-09-2003 10:00 PM #47
      Quote, originally posted by ketch »
      Excuse me, but who told you there are "oils" in today's modern high solid clear coats?
      These new generation (starting in the late 80's) are low solvent/high solid urethanes, and there are no "oils" left in the clear following the OEM paint assembly plants bake process. It removes the main solvent carrier, which is an emulsion of water and a hydrocarbon in the process.
      The closest thing that you can lay your hands on to a modern clear is plastic, it is a chemical cousin of today's clears, just less porus.
      Many of the products you apply to the clear when waxing or polishing due contain petroluem distillates and some polydimethalsiloxanes or polyaminosiloxanes, but these are not true "oils".
      Just attempting to clear up some "old wives tales" that are continually perpertrated by old school product sales/marketing types.
      Ketch

      That's OK Ketch, we know you try. Just to clarify, there aren't any OILS in Urethane or other 'plastics' paint - I used that as an acronym so people could have a visual understanding of what it was doing for their paint. However, the paints themselves ARE pourous (if not on an almost microscopic level) and can be broken down and made more brittle by effects on the evironment - air, acidic chemicals in rainfall water, UV damage, and other pollutants due break down those 'plastics' that are used (IE have you ever found an old plastic toy under you porch or around that's been sitting out? THe plastic is brittle and it's dis-colored). Todays glazes, while not containing the same 'oils' that were used in the old Hot Rod Style enamel paints, due contain restorative nutrients and revitalizers that elongate the life of any type of paint, and help protect against further damage. They go beyond just a polish and/or removing of oxidation. If that were not the case, then why would over 85% of winning show car people use them along WITH polishers, cleaners and wax. I know you are in the "car repair equipment" business Ketch, and hear a lot of things, but could you please do a little more research before you post mis-information? IM me if you have questions, thanks.
      J

      Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 7:02 PM 11-9-2003


      Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 7:21 PM 11-9-2003

    23. 11-09-2003 10:26 PM #48
      Well, I have to tell you that you try, but the "facts" just don't go with what you are saying.
      Yes, enviormental contaminates do attack and will break the "resin" system of todays clears.
      If you wish to see a highly magnified cross section of today's paint system, I put it up on our corp web site, look under Tech Tips at http://www.autoint.com , it is there, and was provided, as is the "how today's paint systems are applied" by one of the 4 major OEM paint supplier we work with on a daily basis.
      If one wishes to "feed" a modern high solid clear, you would have to add the certain plastizers back into it that the use of high alkaline cleaners, certain enviormental contaminates, remove.
      A plastizer is acid based, and just like with rubber, vinyl, and paint, provide the gloss and elastic values needed.
      The "resin" system is the key to holding it all together, attack that and it all comes apart.
      "Oils" do not have these needed values.
      Are you aware that an unprotected high solid clear on average, will absorb over one pint of water into the paint surface of the average vehicle, that the only thing that stops it from reaching the metal or other substrate used is the "e-coat"?
      I just returned from a two week trip to the west coast, the first week I spent a day each with 4 of the largest importers paint and trim engineers, the last week at SEMA in our exhibit. Our exhibit was not for enthusists, but was visited by global parts distributors, vehicle manufacturers from around the world.
      While there, I was approached by two large world manufacturers of vehicles, regarding providing consultation to them, which leaves only 4 of the 15 in the world that we don't work with on a regular basis.
      I am not sharing this with you to "brag", but to let you know where I am coming from.
      How about you? Do you work with Toyota, VW, BMW, Ford, GM(all divisions), DCX(all but MB), Renault, Nissan, Hyundia?
      Their engineering groups?
      Not trying to be throwing down, but I do know about today's paints and the issues that affect them, and I work with the paint suppliers to these manufacturers as well.
      It is how I have made my living, aiding in building our company, for over 20 years.
      Ketch

    24. 11-09-2003 11:36 PM #49
      Quote, originally posted by ketch »
      Well, I have to tell you that you try, but the "facts" just don't go with what you are saying.
      Yes, enviormental contaminates do attack and will break the "resin" system of todays clears.
      Ketch

      Bla bla bla. I guess you didn't read my reply before you posted. Like I said, I used the word "oil" to give people a visual of what happens to the paint, and why you use a glaze - that meaning got lost in your attempt to show people how affluent you were in the technical jargon of today's point. Is it really 'oil' or is it some kind of chemical that restores the "plastizers" and "resins" in the paint? Who cares. The REAL point is that when you prep and polish your paint, you DO need to use a glaze to restore some of the elasticity and gloss that is lost by the damage that is in everyday contaminents/pollutants. Also, dish washing soap does go through the clear coat and damage the base/pigment coat on a three-stage finish, so again whether it's oil or it's not, the point is don't use dishwashing detergent, unless you dis-agree with that..
      It's always fun when people over analyze info, but then totally lose the point. All of that mumbo-jumbo but never once did you say that what I advised was bad... Sometimes it's better to not say anything at all....
      Oh, FYI. Here's a FAQ from Meguiars.com... uh, the company the over 90% of show car winners use... [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      From Meguiars.com:
      "Can a clear coat oxidize?
      Most modern car finishes consist of a base coat that contains the colored pigment, topped with a protective clear coat that is designed to keep the pigmented paint from oxidizing. UV protection is added into the clear coat that helps prevent the sun's rays from fading the color coat.
      Oxidation was an obvious problem ten years ago because you quickly saw the color on a single-stage finish fade. With today's modern clear coat finishes, oxidation is less obvious, yet it still occurs.
      Here is how it happens, the sun dries out the top layer of clear paint, just like it does to a single-stage finish and when this happens, the paints natural oils are lost.
      Exposure to inclement weather and frequent washing, (especially with a harsh detergent like dish washing soap), further dries your paint out by leaching the natural oils out of your paint.
      As the natural oils are removed, water and other destructive elements begin to attack your finish. If these oils aren't replaced, your clear coat paint will oxidize and the surface will gradually become duller. Although modern paint technology is much more resistant to oxidation, nevertheless, it will oxidize when neglected and/or improperly maintained.

      For more information call our Customer Care Center at 1-800-545-3321, and talk with a surface care specialist. Or, use the convenience of e-mail.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Can a clear coat fade?
      No and yes.
      The word Fade means to, lose color or brightness gradually.
      Technically speaking, since the clear has no color… it cannot fade or lose it's brightness. At least if we use the above definition. It can become dull, but that's not the same as fading.
      Can the color coat below the clear coat fade? In short… Yes. But, it depends on the environment. A car parked inside most of it's life, far away from the equator will not show much sign of fading. Conversely, a car continually parked outside in a desert region close to the equator will fade more quickly and the results will be more apparent over time.
      These are the technically correct answers. The non-technical answer to the question, "Can a clear coat fade?" is yes, but very slowly. So slowly that most people cannot perceive any change through the course of day to day living.

      For more information call our Customer Care Center at 1-800-545-3321, and talk with a surface care specialist. Or, use the convenience of e-mail.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Can a clear coat get dull?
      Most modern car finishes consist of a base coating that contains the color, topped with a protective clear coat that is designed to keep the pigmented paint from oxidizing. This outer clear coat adds UV protection that helps prevent the sun's rays from drying out the base paint. Oxidation was an obvious problem ten years ago because you quickly saw the color fade. Now that the outer layer is usually clear, oxidation is less obvious, yet it still occurs. The sun dries out top paint layers and natural oils are lost. If these oils aren't replaced, the paint oxidizes and the surface gradually becomes duller and duller.
      Even more than yesterday's paints, today's clear coat finishes look faded whenever the surface becomes contaminated by airborne pollution, acid rain, industrial fallout, and countless other factors. If the contamination isn't removed frequently, it reduces the reflective quality of the finish until it looks dull and lifeless. If the contamination is left on the car for some time, it can begin to etch into the thin clear coat paint layer and expose the base coat to direct UV rays and even greater damage.
      Once the clear coat protection is gone the car usually requires costly repainting.
      For more information call our Customer Care Center at 1-800-545-3321, and talk with a surface care specialist. Or, use the convenience of e-mail.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"

      and so on. I guess if I can't help you, maybe you should email Barry Meguiar?
      J



      Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 8:37 PM 11-9-2003

    25. 12-05-2003 04:30 PM #50
      k i read through some of the stuff people have submitted. some very good stuff. i detail showroom cars, ie. make them ready to go into the showrooms. can take up to 6-8 hours depending on the car and color. black ones are the hardest and take around 7 usually.
      for everything i do i have a detail bay. sounds fancy not too hard to do youself. get some fluorescnet lights, a space heater or 2, dust free area, where you can hose off things. not too hard.
      most people have the washing techniques down good.
      for drying:
      wash the car outside roll it in.i have already cranked the heaters on full blast so the room is freakin hot. i am sweating just standing there. i go over the windows with a squegee and the entire car with another one cleaning after each sweep. just gets the majoirty of the water off there :edit: any fine scratches you do put into the car you end up taking out when you do the color cut anywayz:edit:. i go grab a coffee let the heater do the rest
      next i claybar the car
      claybar:
      make sure you use a good bar. we use a bar from our supplier so i dont know what kind it is exactly buts its around $80 for the bars and we have different strengths for different colours and cars.
      try to use lots of lubricant, soap and water is really good, just somthing so the bar doesn't stick. make small circles and go panel by panel. try to wash the car after each panel so lots of grit doesn't get in there
      do the whole car, sedans usually take around an hour and a bit to do.
      wash the car to get the soap and clay off, make sure you get it all off.
      bring car back in and dry it off by hand. let the heater do the work again.
      i usually let the car sit for about 15 minutes once dry in the hot bay so that the paint begins to become warm. makes for easy waxing.
      waxing:
      usually do 4 waxes in total, color cut, lustre, shine, and then a shine enhancer
      when i use the color cut i usually do 2 coats and buff off with a wool pad on the buffer at around 1800rpm. if there are still some scratches i will do as many as neccessary.
      lustre i will do about 2 or 3 coats again depending on the coat quality. light colors get done with a buffer dark ones especially black get done by hand.
      shine: do a coat by hand and take off by hand
      shine enhancer: again 2 coats take off by hand.
      stand back and admire, fix any imperfections that are then seen.
      key is to be in a warm bay. wax dries quicker, goes on better comes off better. it is usually better to let the wax sit for a few minutes until it is fully dry. it comes off easier but works better and doesn't haze the paint.
      then i just roll it into the showroom and use a showroom cloth to remove any fingerprints and dust.....and wait for the little f u c k e r s to put their hands all over it.

      hope that helped some people.


      Modified by nOOb at 1:35 PM 12-5-2003
      My Legen...wait for it....dairy VRT build thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3571869

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