1.8T swap into mk3 GTI

[ghostrider]

naw man... its a small pic but im gunna go head and bet 20 cents your spindle will bolt right up to that.

you gotta remember that the balljoint is gunna push the spindle out that extra little bit

im drunk and im going to bed

but ive been readin this thread since the beginning.

quality

[JettaDriverFound]

Looks good Jim... Nice progress

[punkassjim]

Some busy-work while I wait for my drive shafts to show up (FedEx, again, is retarded): I was gonna go and start splicing the headlight and taillight wiring so I could get that out of the way, but I'm just too tired after getting back from the day in Rochester.

I was thinkin about what I'll do when I wire the taillights...should I wire them in the european pattern, with the brake lights on the outside and the rear fog on the insde? I really wanted to do that a while back, but I think I've decided to leave it the NA light pattern. I'm not one of those guys who appreciates the Vento tag on a Jetta. It ain't a Vento. And my taillight signature should probably stay NA.

...but I might change my mind again, and screw with it. Crap, I dunno. Steve Prendergast and Rob Thomas had how-to's on their sites a while back, but I never got a feel for what the euro taillight signature looked like in real life. Shoot, maybe I'll do it just to be different...as if the dash and motor and all the other crap don't accomplish all that already

[lukedwag]

nah its all good buddy

[punkassjim]

ah, thanks man...I seriously owe you one. Here's the deal, though: I just got off the phone with FedEx, and my driveshafts aren't coming until tomorrow (have I mentioned I hate FedEx?)! So they come in tomorrow, I install them, I get the motor back in, I put the hoist back in the trunk (or borrow a more substantial car ) and bring it back up to you. Borrowed for roughly a week, and you get a case of beer outta the deal. Sound good to you?

Meantime, my lunch break will be spent doing the busy-work I mentioned last night.

[punkassjim]

DRIVESHAFTS CAME IN!!! For once, I was pleasantly susprised by FedEx. Although they were supposed to be delivered on Saturday (mixup prevented that), and FedEx Home Delivery isn't supposed to do business on Mondays (it's anyone's guess as to WHY), the axles got delivered today while I was in a meeting. NICE! They must have dropped it off at the FedEx station up here when they made the delivery attempt this weekend, since they noticed it wasn't a home, it was a business.

Anyway, I went and pulled the motor on my lunch break, and started installing the passenger's shaft. I ran out of time, but I should say...I'm still not convinced they're gonna fit. The shafts are definitely not pushed all the way into the hub splines (because they're all rusty), but they axle ends are only a hand apart, and the distance between stub-axle-ends is about 2 hands. I dunno man, I'm not feeling very hopeful.

Then again, maybe it's just because end-of-lunch-break is such a cockblock. dammitall.

[lukedwag]

haha yea thats plenty buddy ..... hope this axle situation works out

[VRC-YA]

Yea, me too! Anywayz goodluck...

[punkassjim]

they don't fit.

or at least I don't think they do. The triple-rotor joints on the inner shafts aren't supposed to compress COMPLETELY on installation, are they? Yeah, I don't think they fit. On the one hand, the driver's shaft seems to fit nicely. On the other hand, the passenger shaft is compressed completely, and the motor still needs to be shifted to the left for the bolt to go into the motor mount...but that axle ain't letting the motor move that way.

If anyone has any bright ideas as to how I can shift things a little so the motor sits a little further to the left, I'd love to hear it.

I tried installing the passenger's shaft with no prep-work. Stupid. The hubs had been sitting in the junkyard for god knows how long, just rusting away. The first picture is of the passenger hub nut. The CV joint isn't even sticking out. The second picture is of the driver's shaft. Before installing, I took a little screwdriver and scraped out as much rust and grit as I could, and coated it with some lube. The hub nut went on smoothly, and tightened properly. Then I went back to the passenger's hub nut, and couldn't get the shaft out of the hub. COULD...NOT. I spent the better part of 3 hours trying to get it free. When I finally did, I had pounded the end of the CV so much, it was flared at the end:

Anyway, here's what a mk4 passenger triple-rotor joint boot looks like, under no stress:

Here's what my driver's shaft looks like...compressed, but not TOO badly:

And then there's the passenger's side. This one, I'm thinking will make the car unsafe to drive:

I don't know man, I'm open to opinions and suggestions...who has a set of VR6 axles with stub axles I can try-before-I-buy? Either way, this sucks. Major setback, and I DON'T want to pay for custom axles to be made.

Move motor mounts over? Possible? Beuller?


Modified by punkassjim at 1:24 PM 10-29-2004

[punkassjim]

wait a minute, maybe, if my mk3 driveshafts are only a few mm shorter...

perhaps I could transplant the mk4 outer CV's onto the mk3 8v shafts, and move the O2O stub axles over. Anyone know if O2O stub-axles can be installed in an O2J? gimmeAdub?

(if the answer is yes, i'm sorry vinnie, but I'll need my tranny back ...hope the O2A is going well...)

[JettaDriverFound]

Quote, originally posted by punkassjim »

perhaps I could transplant the mk4 outer CV's onto the mk3 8v shafts, and move the O2O stub axles over. Anyone know if O2O stub-axles can be installed in an O2J? gimmeAdub?

Sorry to see the set back. The 02O Flange will not fit on the O2J, I tried and flanges are different type. My current thought is to disect the shafts and combine the inner cv joint from the Mk4 with the shaft and outter joint from the Mk2 shaft. I haven't changed by hubs so my problem is slightly easier. Good Luck

[punkassjim]

I break promises to work on a damn car. I can't be doing that. I'm taking a break for a while.

[lukedwag]

waht you need to do is go get some mk3 VR shafts ... the mk3 stub axle will fit right into the hub......... then you pop off the mk3 inner CV and use the mk4 inner CV ..... I know for a fact that this will work cuase some on has done it ..... I dont recall who but I am positive that this was how he did it

[punkassjim]

for as much as that'll cost me (along with the uncertainty)...I dunno, I trust your judgement luke, but only if you were the one who did it. I've been down the wrong path before because "someone" has done it. And right now I don't have the motivation to do the blind research.

I called the drive shaft shop and asked off-hand how much it'd cost to give them my driveshafts and the measurements, and have them give me back a set of axles that'll fit. They said around $400. I might just do that, cause it's guaranteed to work. But another $400...man I hate this crap.

There are too many mixed components in the DIY route: mk3 VR brakes/hubs/steering/control-arms...choice of mk3 VR stub axles (if they fit) or mk4 1.8T stub axles...choice of mk3 VR, mk3 8v or mk4 1.8T inner shafts...choice of mk3 VR or mk4 1.8T outer CV's. I'd feel better if I had measurements of all of them, with which to decide what's the right fit.

Too much knowledge in my head, it's getting all jumbled: I know the mk4 axles are longer than the mk3 8v axles. I can't remember if the mk3 VR axles are longer than the mk3 8v axles (from all the 5-lug conversion threads I've read in the past), and even if I did, I woudn't know if the mk3 VR axles are any shorter than the mk4 axles. I figured since the O2J is a younger cousin of the O2A, and the hub splines are the same from mk3 VR to mk4 1.8T, that maybe the newer car uses the same suspension track and driveshaft length. I was wrong. I don't want to be wrong again. Maybe if I tried again to mount the mk4 spindles/hubs on the Plus Suspension control arms...still no guarantee, and then I'd have to buy shocks/springs that fit THAT setup. No.

I think gimmeAdub said there were TDI tranny flanges that I could buy, and then use my 8v shafts...then I think I'd have to run a HALF-Plus Suspension, with 8v control arms and tie rods (for length reasons), the VR brakes/spindles/hubs and outer CV's. I'm betting those stub axles cost almost as much as just having the driveshafts made, and more of a hassle to find/install.

I don't even know if I'm gonna be able to get those axles out of my hubs now. I cleaned the hubs, but I still don't think I'll get 'em out without pounding the crap out of them...I don't know how to keep them from getting damaged. Damn. I'm stuck.

:goes back to his funk:

[jamesb]

To remove them without damaging them or the threads. a large punch that will fit in the center divit will work. Also you can use a socket and extention you could care less if it breaks, invert the socket on the extention (backwards) and use that to beat it out without damaging the threads of the splines.

[lukedwag]

if you have your 2.0 shafts try sticking them up there for comparision ........ waht about using those center shafts and the mk4 joints ? will the joints fit the centers ?

[punkassjim]

Quote, originally posted by lukedwag »

if you have your 2.0 shafts try sticking them up there for comparision ........ waht about using those center shafts and the mk4 joints ? will the joints fit the centers ?

The inner CV shaft is one unit. Plus, it's new triple-rotor compared with old conventional inner CV.

As it stands now, only the mk4 inner shaft will bolt up to the tranny, and either the mk4 outer CV, or a mk3 VR CV will fit my hubs (keep in mind, I don't have them). As for changing the tranny flanges, I HAVE to know that this works, considering my components, before I jump on it.

I dunno, I'll do some more research at some point.

[JettaDriverFound]

Unfortuately I'm having the same problems. My original approach was to use the inner MK4 Joint with the MK2 shaft and outer MK2 Joint.

I pulled the inner MK4 Joint and the inner MK2 Joint and tried to put the MK4 Joint on the MK2 shaft. The MK2 shaft spline is about an 1/8 inch too big..

I purchased the TDI Flange gimmadub referenced because I thought that was a road solution.. $135 for the flange... I just don't see how it helps me even though its 100MM. Bottom line I'm thinking $400 bucks isn't that bad. Keep the faith...


Modified by JettaDriverFound at 3:03 AM 10-1-2003

[punkassjim]

is that $135 for both, or just one? It sounds like it'll be a solution for you. For me, it wouldn't work. If your mk4 inner wouldn't mate to the mk3 outer, then the reverse wouldn't work for me. Excellent to at least know for sure now. Thank you.

I'll try to get the measurement tomorrow, and call the Drive Shaft Shop to see when they could have it done by.

[lukedwag]

so the drivers side shaft fits? waht about having a machine shop or the drive shaft shop shorten the other mk4 shaft to fit ............. cut it on a lathe then tig it togather ...... someone did this before ......

[punkassjim]

I _think_ that's basically what they will do, but it'll be more like a custom shaft job (heh).

when they create custom axles, they use custom joints. That costs around $1500 for this type of car. In _my_ case, they'll cut them (both) in the lathe and weld in all new shafts to go with the existing joints/hardware. Hence it's $1100 less. I'm basically just paying for shafts, welds and labor. If I were confident, I'd only do one. But I really think for peace of mind it'd be better to customize a matched set, since I'm not _sure_ the driver's side axle fits right. It's compressed. I don't know how much, or how much is too much. And I can't put the motor in all the way to check.

Louis' axles look GOOD. I'm guessing these'll look like they FIT, and nothing more.

Oh, and I'll need to paint them to protect them.

[gimmeAdub]

ok jim here is the deal. if the mk3 vr6 axles use 100mm bolt pattern the tdi stub axles will work. im not 100 percent sure that they are tdi stub axles but i do know they are 100mm bolt pattern. (part#02A-409-355-D) these stub axles will allow you to BOLT UP any vw 100mm axle. in my situtation i kept my 4 lug suspension and 8v axles from my mk2 and it fit just fine. now if you have a true plus suspension i would guess that the vr6 axles would be the proper length. 02A stub axles will not work. i bought some thinking they would work but they are different.
02j and 02a stub axles

so are you using the complete plus suspension set up?

[punkassjim]

yep, complete as can be. I unbolted it myself, from a 1994 Jetta GLX. Subframe and all, never disassembled.

If the "TDI" stub axles are $135 each, and then I have to buy O2A axles, then it doesn't win out, financially. But let me know if the stub axles only cost 135 for the pair. Thanks man!

Oh yeah, and thanks for the quick shipment on the axles! Good seller, and I'll be sure to praise you where I can.

[gimmeAdub]

Quote, originally posted by punkassjim »

yep, complete as can be. I unbolted it myself, from a 1994 Jetta GLX. Subframe and all, never disassembled. If the "TDI" stub axles are $135 each, and then I have to buy O2A axles, then it doesn't win out, financially. But let me know if the stub axles only cost 135 for the pair. Thanks man! Oh yeah, and thanks for the quick shipment on the axles! Good seller, and I'll be sure to praise you where I can.

yeah they are a little pricey. that price is for each. OE parts arent cheap yeah instead of buying those and axles you are better off getting your axles modified...unless you can sell the axles off for a profit

[JettaDriverFound]

Quote, originally posted by gimmeAdub »

in my situtation i kept my 4 lug suspension and 8v axles from my mk2 and it fit just fine.

gimmeAdub.. I'm trying to use the same setup but it doesn't work. Did you use the O2J Tranny, 02J flanges, 8V shafts? I hear alot of 1.8T swaps into MK2 use the O2A tranny. If you know the exact config I could use some help....

Modified by JettaDriverFound at 11:51 AM 10-1-2003


Modified by JettaDriverFound at 11:53 AM 10-1-2003

[punkassjim]

he used the flanges we mentioned above. Apparently (correct me if I'm wrong) he had no issues with length.

It'll be 8-10 days turnaround for the axles, plus shipping in either direction. grrr.

[gimmeAdub]

Quote, originally posted by JettaDriverFound »

gimmeAdub.. I'm trying to use the same setup but it doesn't work. Did you use the O2J Tranny, 02J flanges, 8V shafts? I hear alot of 1.8T swaps into MK2 use the O2A tranny. If you know the exact config I could use some help.... Modified by JettaDriverFound at 11:51 AM 10-1-2003 Modified by JettaDriverFound at 11:53 AM 10-1-2003

02j tranny, 02j stub axles (100mm stub axle number listed above), and my 8 valve axles.

[punkassjim]

Quote, originally posted by punkassjim »

It'll be 8-10 days turnaround for the axles, plus shipping in either direction. grrr.

I decided this morning: once I get the axles shipped out, since I have so long to wait, I'm gonna just go ahead and route the wiring, cooling hoses and turbo plumbing, and get it started. There's plenty left to do, but I just can't stand the suspense, since the engine is sitting in the engine bay.

[punkassjim]

oh yeah, EVO intake is ordered and on the way. Will install stock airbox for NY inspection, though, along with the evap canister and secondary air pump (although WHERE I'll install it, I haven't a clue).

[lukedwag]

are you kidding me .............. you have to be joking
NYS inspection give me 20 bucks and u will have a sticker tomarow

[BUNNYLOVE]

They will have no idea what that stuff is anyways whether its there or not. I wouldn't worry too much about this at all.

[punkassjim]

Yeah, I might go Luke's route. When I lived up in Oswego, I knew people who would slap the sticker on as a favor. Down here, I haven't made friends like that, and wasn't born into it. If only my dad knew people in Ithaca, I'd be set.

The only reason I'm worried it won't pass is because some of the inspection stations around here are totally unclear about the law. When I totaled the car, I found out that the law was just changed at the end of 2002: if your airbags were deployed, you can't use used airbags to replace them now. That doesn't say you can't remove the airbags from the car altogether.

But one of the places I went to around here said "come this january, when you get the car inspected, there'll be changes...if the car's check engine light is on, it'll fail because that means emissions. Also, if your car came from the factory with airbags, then it has to have them."

Know what I think of that?


Modified by punkassjim at 1:28 AM 4-27-2004

[punkassjim]

spent a good two hours routing wiring throughout the engine bay yesterday. I was amazed how much of it could get routed and plugged in (in the appropriate routes) in so little time. Goes to show how important it is to tag all the wiring as it gets pulled from the donor.

Things left to do before start:
1. route the last of the wiring, including alternator
2. install battery pan and battery
3. cut the cat pipe and clamp it to the exhaust
4. reconnect PS pump
5. connect radiator and coolant hoses
6. connect airbox and FMIC

I've got the serp belt installed, but the AC compressor isn't connected to anything. I figure since the system isn't pressurized, then the clutch in the compressor isn't engaged, and it won't hurt anything. Is it safe to start the car with the hoses disconnected from the compressor?

[lukedwag]

it will be fine to do that .... just make srue you leave the conector undone so that theres no chance of it turning on...... tape the holes so crap doesnt get in there .......

[punkassjim]

ah, i'm glad you mentioned it, or I would have forgotten. I plugged it in, but I'll unplug it.

On another note, for those of you who may want to use mk4 brakes on your mk3, there's another requirement. Get mk3 brake pads for 11.3". I didn't specifically say it before, but it's definitely required. The pads for the mk4 are WAY too thick, and they force the caliper to widen into the wheel. Good to know.