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    Thread: WHY VWVORTEX SUCKS - Volume 1

    1. Banned
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      07-17-2003 03:25 PM #1
      DISCLAIMER #1: Okay, first of all, I would just like to point out to everybody that if you don't like what I have to say, feel free to let me know. BUT - don't give me a response if you don't have a rational point to make.

      WHY VWVORTEX SUCKS

      I don't really know where to start my little rant. I have spent over two years on the 'tex, and I've come to realize a couple things that may have been said before.

      DISCLAIMER #2: I'm going to make these points anyway. I don't care if you've heard them before, you don't need to tell me.

      1) No matter what you say, no matter who you say it to, somebody is going to disagree with you. Sure, that's a fact of life, but not on the tex. Oh no, on the tex, if somebody doesn't agree with what you say, they flame you. HARD. Rather than saying, "No, I disagree, it should be like this", they simply tell you "that was the most ignorant, irresponsible thing I have ever heard. Shame on you." The word "ignorant" is key, because I promise you, it is used in damn near every thread in the community. Everybody has an opinion, and everybody feels the need to hijack a thread to start a flame war because they don't agree. Threads QUICKLY stray off topic because of this.

      DISCLAIMER #3: Don't tell me I'm ignorant and that "not everybody does that", and that "I shouldn't generalize like that, because not everybody fits the generalization." Yeah? I know that, you don't have to tell me. The word "everybody" doesn't, in this sense, mean "every member of the VWVORTEX community." Instead, it is being used to represent a large amount of users.

      2) Post count is everything. I'll admit, I've done some rather childish things on vwvortex (Yes, I've bombed the test forum with the aid of some friends, leading to a lock and 10 point deduction. 86 posts, 150 views in the test forum? That's funny, whether you think it's irresposible, ignorant, and childish or not.) but if it were 3 guys with 15000 posts, the mods would have found it rather funny. Admit it, I don't care if the mods come in here and say, "No, it wouldn't be like that!" -- I can promise you it would. I remember one night when some rather "old school" members were posting incredibly obvious "welcome to last week" posts in the Car Lounge (Did you guys see that new honda commercial? Did you guys see that honda with the 15" exhaust tip? etc etc) .. The mods would lock the threads, and post things like "Hahaha, you guys just don't give up, do you! " If I would have done that, I would've been banned.

      DISCLAIMER #4: Yes, I realize I wouldn't have been banned. The word "banned" in this sense is flavored with what I call "sarcasm." If you don't know what this means, you probably don't deserve to live.

      DISCLAIMER #4a: I'm kidding. You should just lose a limb for being so stupid.

      3) Why do people feel the need to reply to a post simply stating, "This thread is stupid. What a horrible thread. I don't like this thread at all." Sure, some threads are rediculously off topic and out of line, but come on. Even those can be taken with a grain of salt - if somebody posts something UNRELATED to cars *GASP!* in the car lounge, LET THE MODERATORS TAKE CARE OF IT. Are you just trying to increase your post count by saying, "This is the car lounge, not the off topic forum!"? Report to the moderators, and be on your way.

      4) The "Honda owners are ignorant, stupid ricers" mentality needs to go. This is also known as the "If it's not european, it's no good" mentality. When are you going to realize that the Asian auto manufacturers have far surpassed that of the Germans? Need proof? Look at sales reports. Look at Mercedes Benz and BMW's styling & quality control standards, compared to your average Honda Accord. More bang for the buck in a new car? Asian is your best bet.

      DISCLAIMER #5: If you think that VW still makes higher quality, more stylish, more impressive automobiles than the Asian manufacturers, that's your opinion - I may disagree, but I won't tell you that you're a moron for thinking that. I love European cars to death, but I'm willing to call a spade a spade.

      4a) Yes, you ARE wrong! Not all hondas have triple decker aluminum wings, 12" exhaust tips, outlandish body kits, and 22" American Racing wheels. Some Honda's are even, *GASP!*, stylish! Just because somebody decides to modify a Honda doesn't make them a *****, nor does it make them cocky and arrogant. "Rice" can easily be compared to "Euro", they're just different styles, PERIOD. I'm also willing to bet that some of them are better drivers than you, too.

      DISCLAIMER #6: Don't like Honda? I don't care. Don't reply to this post to tell me about it, because that has nothing to do with what I'm trying to point out.

      I could go on for hours, but I'll stop here. Maybe I'll start a monthly edition of "WHY VWVORTEX SUCKS."

      DISCLAIMER #7: No, VWVORTEX doesn't suck. The title is simply a direct reflection of how angry I get with some of the things that go on around here. You don't have to reply just to tell me that the tex doesn't suck, I know - thanks anyway

      DISCLAIMER #8: I'm 18 years old, you really don't have to tell me that I'm young and ignorant and that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm a teenager, therefore I'm invincible - of COURSE I don't know what I'm talking about.


      Modified by thompo at 12:26 PM 7-17-2003


    2. 07-17-2003 03:26 PM #2
      you wrote all of that just to get banned?

      *but some very rational points*



      Modified by surefooted at 3:30 PM 7-17-2003


    3. Member gtivr4's Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:28 PM #3
      Don't like it here. Go somewhere else. Goodness.
      1990 Miata
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    4. Banned
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      07-17-2003 03:29 PM #4
      Wow pretty good read!!!!

    5. 07-17-2003 03:31 PM #5
      there are definately alot of close minded people here. At times I think we can all be that person though. My complaint is that this place is just getting too damn crowded.

      Plus i hate when people correct my grammer.
      Shut up. you know what i mean.


    6. Banned
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      07-17-2003 03:31 PM #6
      See, this is what I was assuming would happen. I'm not trying to get banned! Nor did I ever say, "I don't like VWVORTEX" -- If you didn't notice the sarcasm throughout the entire post, I'm sorry. I spend about 3 hours a day reading the tex, its not like I'm trying to get banned or anything of that sort.

      Do you guys read Dave Barry and get pissed, too?


    7. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:32 PM #7
      You forgot one other thing. Everyone needs a grammar lesson, and there are some of us who are willing to always dish one out.

      On that note, you spelled "ridiculous" wrong.


    8. Member Sir UNBANNED_GERBIL M.B.'s Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:33 PM #8
      I agree 100%. Thats why http://www.generationdub.com R0x0rs j00r B0x0r5

    9. 07-17-2003 03:34 PM #9
      I bet you drive a mk4

    10. 07-17-2003 03:35 PM #10
      Quote, originally posted by ImRollin »
      I bet you drive a mk4


    11. 07-17-2003 03:35 PM #11
      id like it if VWvortex implemented something like s2ki, where you basically prove you are a s2k owner and your owner status is indicated every time you post. (im not surte how they implement this)

      i'd like a lot more moderators on the car lounge, or perhaps a points system simlikar to slashdot's moderation system in which random posters get to moderate up topics/posts.


      Most importantly since it seems like most posters in the car lounge don't own european cars

      I'd like it if japanese car owners actually spent a lot of time driving european cars and would understand why, despite higher prices, expensive repairs, more expensive mods, usually lower straightline performance, and lower reliablity, people still like to buy european cars for reasons other than status.





      Modified by profbooty at 3:38 PM 7-17-2003


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      07-17-2003 03:36 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by CanuckPal »
      You forgot one other thing. Everyone needs a grammar lesson, and there are some of us who are willing to always dish one out.

      On that note, you spelled "ridiculous" wrong.

      HAHA. Jerk.

      Just kidding. That's the kind of response I was hoping for, thanks for not taking me 100% seriously (while understanding my points).


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      07-17-2003 03:36 PM #13
      Disclaimers, 9 - Points of Discussion, 5. Another clear win for Disclaimers.


    14. Member MartijnGizmo's Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:38 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by Spaghetti_Part2 »
      there are definately alot of close minded people here.

      Yeah, but if only closed minds came with closed mouths.....


    15. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:39 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by MartijnGizmo »
      Yeah, but if only closed minds came with closed mouths.....

      That's too funny.


    16. 07-17-2003 03:40 PM #16
      this post is pointless! it sucks!

      anyways... there's some good points... especially that euro crap... it seems that if they dont like it.. it's automatically r!ce... why can't those people with body kits just have them cause they like how they look? because it's not german and or oem it's gotta be r!ce seems to be the mentallity of some people here.


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      07-17-2003 03:43 PM #17


      and Canuck cracks me up


    18. 07-17-2003 03:44 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by profbooty »
      Most importantly since it seems like most posters in the car lounge don't own european cars

      I'd like it if japanese car owners actually spent a lot of time driving european cars and would understand why, despite higher prices, expensive repairs, more expensive mods, usually lower straightline performance, and lower reliablity, people still like to buy european cars for reasons other than status.

      I like that statement but let me change it just a bit...

      "Most importantly since it seems like most posters in the car lounge own european cars

      I'd like it if eruopean car owners actually spent a lot of time driving japanese cars and would understand why, despite lower prices, few repairs, cheap mods, usually higher straightline performance, and far better reliablity, people still like to buy japanese cars for reasons other than appliances."

      Actually I agree with both statements. If we could somehow get everyone to see both....


    19. 07-17-2003 03:45 PM #19
      I agree with the close mind/close mouth deal, but that will never happen.
      I never know about generationdub.com, I just signed up.

      As for thompo, he always seems to be complaining, however, I can't wait until volume 2 comes out. Is there going to be a set time/date for it? or will it just come randomly?

      in regards to sarcasm... I am often getting in trouble because I am being sarcastic 90% of the time and people just can't handle it..


    20. Member Sunil's Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:45 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by Spaghetti_Part2 »
      there are definately alot of close minded people here. At times I think we can all be that person though. My complaint is that this place is just getting too damn crowded.

      Plus i hate when people correct my grammer.
      Shut up. you know what i mean.

      Grammar. What? You didn't say anything about spelling.

      Ryder Hesjedal: "If you draw your sword and then drop it, you die."

    21. 07-17-2003 03:46 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by surefooted »
      Actually I agree with both statements. If we could somehow get everyone to see both....

      keyword there is SOMEHOW... another thing that unfortunately won't ever happen.


    22. 07-17-2003 03:47 PM #22
      the vortex has to be heavily moderated, because of so many members. It would get out of control without the rules it has.

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      07-17-2003 03:48 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by surefooted »
      Actually I agree with both statements. If we could somehow get everyone to see both...

      That brings me to what I was trying to accomplish with this post. Obviously, people already knew this was happening, and maybe nobody had said it like this (by "it" I mean, the points I tried to make. And I know I used alot of sarcasm in the post, I'm just trying to keep it somewhat humorous without trying to sound like a complete ass.)

      What can we do to "fix" the things that have plagued the tex? Is the userbase just too big to go back to the "old days"? I realize I've only been here since 50k users, and even then there were some problems, but hardly any. For those of you who have been around since 5k users and less, I'm sure you have an even bigger connection with what I'm trying to say.

      More moderation? Different point system? Use the current point system? *shrug* I don't know, but I'm sure some of you who have been around longer have some ideas.


    24. 07-17-2003 03:50 PM #24
      Quote, originally posted by thompo »
      [ 2) (Yes, I've bombed the test forum with the aid of some friends, leading to a lock and 10 point deduction. 86 posts, 150 views in the test forum? That's funny, whether you think it's irresposible, ignorant, and childish or not.) but if it were 3 guys with 15000 posts, the mods would have found it rather funny. Admit it, I don't care if the mods come in here and say, "No, it wouldn't be like that!" -- I can promise you it would.

      i personally know two long time mods who were recently banned for post bombing.

      in all seriousness, i have the perfect solution to ALL of your vortex problems. ive helped numerous people here with issues that they have had. its a fairly simple solution. the details can be found HERE



      Modified by rockit at 12:57 PM 7-17-2003


    25. Member Sunil's Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:51 PM #25
      This post should really be titled, "WHY INTERNET DISCUSSION FORUMS SUCK."

      People are really hostile in discussion forums simply because the likelihood of violent reprisal is fairly low. I'm not going to fly to Anchorage to beat up the fat butt-scratching couch-racer that just called me an idiot while he sips his third Mountain Dew of the evening.

      Also, if you make a total ass of yourself online, you can just register a new identity! Presto! The slate is wiped clean!

      Given that, I think the Vortex is an impressively civil place to hang out. Have you visited ClubSi? It's like an automated insult-o-tron.

      Ryder Hesjedal: "If you draw your sword and then drop it, you die."

    26. 07-17-2003 03:52 PM #26
      There is not much more that can be done than what currently is happening. The larger the vortex grows, the more it reflects humanity. Trying to make this place more civil is akin to the tasks of changing society. It can be done, but not easily.

    27. Member VwG60Kid's Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:52 PM #27
      its not as bad as you make it out to be... other forums are much worse.. the mods are what makes this place as good as it is

    28. 07-17-2003 03:52 PM #28
      Its free. I am pretty happy for getting more than my money's worth.

    29. Senior Member Hostile's Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:55 PM #29
      Hehe, fun thread.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      I just want to know why OP thought making a thread in The Car Lounge would help him in any way... We've got a bunch of dudes telling him to "pepper his angus," and an insurance agent who just made a 2:30 appointment to **** someones wife. Classic TCL.

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      07-17-2003 03:57 PM #30
      Quote, originally posted by VwG60Kid »
      its not as bad as you make it out to be... other forums are much worse.. the mods are what makes this place as good as it is

      You're right, I couldn't disagree with that at all. I'm not really trying to make it out to be "really bad" or anything like that, for a free online BBS the tex is top notch -- but when it's this good, why not try to be better? The moderation is excellent, the posts are usually informative, but still - is there any way to improve upon what is already so good?

      EDIT: The thing I posted about me bombing the test forum - Is it funny? I thought so. Was it stupid and pointless, thus contradicting my entire post here? Yes. But I was dealt with as the moderators thought fit - they didn't ban me (except for a 12 hour ban), and they deducted 10 points. It was completely stupid, but it was handled very well by the mods, and thats a big to them. I think Verruckt knew we didn't mean any harm when he didn't ban us for good, and that's admirable.


      Modified by thompo at 1:02 PM 7-17-2003


    31. Global Moderator Paul@VWvortex's Avatar
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      07-17-2003 03:57 PM #31
      Some points were well made by the author and I certainly appreciate your controlled ranting about the whole thing... let's keep this open to keep the opinions flowing please..

    32. 07-17-2003 04:03 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by Richard Hurts »

      I just spit on my screen

      This is what I dislike about internet forums... why make such a useless post?
      There should be a way to limit posts like these to keep the information that gets posted worthwhile. That way it could be a lot more helpful..


    33. 07-17-2003 04:03 PM #33
      I agree with both, im a fan of all types of cars and have owned domestrics, euros and japanese. Currently i own two german automobiles and a japanese made bike.

      I just get sick of people posting about how disapointed they are in their european car because it isn't as reliable as a japanese car or that they are more expensive than similarily priced japanese/domesitfcs or even that the latest japanese model outpreforms it which is something they should have known prior to purchase since one should research a car prior to purchase, so there is no need to whine.Should european/domestic cars be as reilable as the japanese, honestly, yes, but euro/domestic companys have different design/marketing/production philosphies.


    34. 07-17-2003 04:04 PM #34
      Very interesting. I agree with some of you points but in all reality VwVortex is quite possibly one of the best sites out there. Try reading other forums regarding ANY type of car/manufactuer and every post just sucks. Sometimes this place is pretty bad but compared to other places out there it is definatly among the best.

    35. 07-17-2003 04:06 PM #35
      Quote, originally posted by Herps »

      This is what I dislike about internet forums... why make such a useless post?
      There should be a way to limit posts like these to keep the information that gets posted worthwhile. That way it could be a lot more helpful..

      there is, its a point baised moderating system like that at slashdot, in which users get karma for good posts and thus they get a posting bonus which makes their posts more visible, whereas stupid posts like the one you quoted are far less visible.

      a filtering system or a karma system would be great, for example you could easily prohibit posts with a small character count as usually those short posts have nothing really valid to add to the discussion.

      additionally one could reset the karma setting for each user on a regular basis to make sure it isn't abused by certain people.


      post count is a poor indicator of how knowlegeable someone is or even how long they have been a member. I read vwvortex for 1.5 years beforejoining, and right now ive been a member for about 2.5 years, yet I have a fairly low postcount.


      Modified by profbooty at 4:10 PM 7-17-2003


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