all of these comments got me thinking... are amg cars really high performance cars or status symbols that can go fast in a straight line? after reading these forums it seems that owners of these cars dont actually care about the dynamics of the car, just as long as it has power to go fast in a straight line, is comfortable, luxurious and looks good. i think that what these owners want and what they get out of an amg car is just about the opposite of what some enthusiasts on this board and m car owners want out of there cars.
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (fitch)
Posted by: AKADriver at 10:51 PM 7-7-2004
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (AKADriver)
Posted by: crushkilldestroy at 10:59 PM 7-7-2004
| Quote, originally posted by AKADriver » |
| They're designed for extremely extralegal speeds, and yet they're NOT built for track use - much too heavy and soft. So.. what are they built for, then? |
hit the nail on the head there. i think they're just built to make the driver look good while sucking more of the lining out of his pockets.
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (AKADriver)
Posted by: SMG at 11:04 PM 7-7-2004
| Quote, originally posted by AKADriver » |
| So.. what are they built for, then? |
| Quote, originally posted by Imola Yellow 20AEGTI » |
| A true driver's car doesn't have an automatic trans, and the BMW M line is much better. So ya it's a status symbol and hey while we're at it why do most seem to be silver and black. What no red and blue exists in their world? |
| Quote, originally posted by trbogti » |
Every automotive magazine publishes articles about how they can hit 200+ mph if de-limited, but let's be serious, would you want to be piloting a 2-ton S-class down the road at 205 mph? |
Yes!!
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (Imola Yellow 20AEGTI)
Posted by: fitch at 11:36 AM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by Imola Yellow 20AEGTI » |
| why do most seem to be silver and black. What no red and blue exists in their world? |
i was wondering why all mercs seem to be silver and black
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car?
Posted by: Reflex5.5 at 12:00 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by Imola Yellow 20AEGTI » |
| why do most seem to be silver and black. What no red and blue exists in their world? |
| Quote, originally posted by fitch » |
i was wondering why all mercs seem to be silver and black |
Mercedes racing color......
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (fitch)
Posted by: E30325i at 1:15 PM 7-8-2004
Quote from Encarta Dictionary...
muscle car
powerful car: a flashy car with a big engine, designed to look like a sports car
In AMG case, a flashy car with a big engine with better suspension. designed to LOOK LIKE a sports cars. (like auto only...)
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (Avus)
Posted by: vdubman1 at 1:47 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by trbogti » |
| The silver dates back to Mercedes' early days in racing. The race cars were left unpainted to save weight, leaving just the bare aluminum below. So Mercedes race cars were always silver. That's why most Mercedes, especially AMG models, are debuted in silver. It's always been considered a throwback, or tribute to Mercedes' racing heritage. |
The offical colour for Germany was originally white.
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (AKADriver)
Posted by: chetacer at 2:07 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by AKADriver » |
| So.. what are they built for, then? |
The Autobahn. Nothing more, nothing less.
So I would say an AMG is a more a status symbol here, but worthwhile in Germany and other free-wheelin places.
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (chetacer)
Posted by: E30325i at 2:19 PM 7-8-2004
So it doesn't really bother me that MB uses AMG to make a few extra $ of the people who want body kits, badges, wheels, and factory (warranty) backed performance upgrade, all in a single package. Obviously, the more die-hard performance guy is going to Lorinser or Braubus with his MB. And the most die-hard guy is swapping a turbo'd supra engine into his Lotus Elise 
I applaud M engineering for staying true to form and making performance a priority in the M cars. Other than some badging and stylistic queues, the rest of the $ goes into tuning and testing a vehicle which could actually be piloted around a track.
Currently, Audi's "S-Line" is just a badge and some styling enchancements. 
The new Quattro GmBH is in line with AMG in terms of making the cars look "exclusive" and increasing performance. I'm looking forward to seeing what else they can produce though. Afterall, they don't really undo anything Audi has already done (like the interiors!) so they are still at some level of compromise. That, and they don't have the public awareness that M and AMG have, so nobody really knows it as a seperate "tuner", it's "just another car" to most people.
oh, and as for the SMG/AUto/Manual argument.. It's really silly to equate any of these transmission types to any sort of measure of performance capabilities. 
There's not much point in driving a 700HP car with a 7 speed manual transmission. Especially when that car is designed to cruise at 130 mph and above. At that point, all it really needs is a 3 speed auto -- the other 4 gears would just be there to keep your arms and legs moving. Entirely superfluous actions. These engines have enough torque that taking any lower-speed twisties (line in canyons or tight courses) you can just leave the car in one gear (maybe 3rd) and do just fine. It's not like a peaky 4cyl that you need to constantly be keeping in the peak power range.
But no, people don't understand this and think more gears must somehow make the car faster. Or that by changing the gears manually (via clutch), they have more "control" over the car (than an auto-manual). Sure, you can do cool stuff like slip the clutch, knock it into neutral quickly, heel-toe in a turn, etc.. But an auto-manual is good enough to do this too. If anything, throwing in a clutch pedal just raises the risk without creating any sort of performance enhancement. When was the last time your automanual missed a shift, over-revved on a downshift, or accidentally went from 6th to 2nd geart?
And back to purpose. What purpose do AMG cars have? They aren't made to serve double-duty as weekend autoXers or roadcoursers, and daily drivers. So the target audience neither needs nor demands a manual transmission. To not even offer one at all hardly causes them to lose any "real" sales. Most people will drive their auto-manual around in full auto mode anyway, and never car to have the level of control offered be being able to up/down shift ahead of time.
Modified by PsyberVW at 11:45 AM 7-8-2004
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (fitch)
Posted by: red5sp1.8T at 2:36 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by fitch » |
| im just curious to see what you guys think on this subject. i was reading the forums at germancarfans, and most of the people there bash bmw and m cars and praise amg and mercedes cars. i found that the people bashing bmw's and m cars were very uneducated about cars and kept saying that an smg transmission is the same as the torque converting automatics in amg vehicles. they were saying that amg is better because the car has more torque, doesnt have to rev high like m cars, has a smooth regular automatic transmission, all the computer aids so they dont lose control, and they dont care about an amg car beating an m car on the track as long as it goes fast in a straight line, smoothly. all of these comments got me thinking... are amg cars really high performance cars or status symbols that can go fast in a straight line? after reading these forums it seems that owners of these cars dont actually care about the dynamics of the car, just as long as it has power to go fast in a straight line, is comfortable, luxurious and looks good. i think that what these owners want and what they get out of an amg car is just about the opposite of what some enthusiasts on this board and m car owners want out of there cars. |
First of all, I think you may be painting German Car Fan forums with a broad brush. I've seen just as many BMW fans over there defending their brand.
You may be right about the wants of AMG owners vs. M owners, but I think that is an extension of the Mercedes and BMW brands (luxury vs. sport). You will probably never get the full potential out of either AMG or M cars on our American roads. These cars were built for the Audobahn.
The German performance line that probably makes the most practical sense here is the S and RS Audis.
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (red5sp1.8T)
Posted by: mrejda at 2:43 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by mrejda » |
I did have an AMG M class smoke me on the highway once, though. I guess some people drive them properly. |
Was it exceeding the maximum posted (or unposted) speed limit? This isn't being driven properly at all
That's being driven like an adolescent. Why do people feel the need to drive performance cars on the highway as if they were on a track?
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (fitch)
Posted by: val98m3sc at 2:50 PM 7-8-2004
My dad thinks he wants a new S55 (I definitely think he wants one). However, his business manager who is a total car nut (owns an Aston Martin and a Cayenne Turbo) thinks the S55 suspension is too stiff for most people and is recommending an S600 or S500 instead.
My dad is a very cool guy, but the reason he wants an S55 is that he wants a car that says "I am rich and a badass," not because he wants a performance car. He'd be perfectly happy with an S500, but that does not project the image he wants.
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (val98m3sc)
Posted by: sieben at 2:58 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by val98m3sc » |
| Most folks that can afford AMGs are too old to drive them as they were intended........ the reason he wants an S55 is that he wants a car that says "I am rich and a badass," not because he wants a performance car. |
exactly
A while back I came upon an E55, all black, on the highway, in the right lane, doing maybe 60 mph.
It was driven by a crinkled old woman at least 70. No doubt she could afford it. It's unlikely she knew what she had, other than a mercedes that was really expensive. Her car's engine probably never exceeded 1500 rpm.....She would have been just as happy in an E430, or a 320, or probably even in an E300 Diesel, back when they were still made.
Plus it seems like the AMGs are always automatics, (at least in the US-- if there's a manual AMG car, please educate me) though I suppose that goes with the "gobs of low end torque" comment by another poster...
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (silver30v)
Posted by: Intalex at 3:18 PM 7-8-2004
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than act ... (silver30v)
Posted by: E30325i at 4:26 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by silver30v » |
Plus it seems like the AMGs are always automatics, (at least in the US-- if there's a manual AMG car, please educate me) though I suppose that goes with the "gobs of low end torque" comment by another poster... |
If you owned a car company, and you did research that theoretically 90% of your buyers bought automatic cars and would not buy a manual transmission car, would you even incurr the cost of tooling for a transmission that no one wants??
And yes the amg guys do cry over that fact...that and the dsg 'like' transmission that is going to be offered is also more popular than the manual transmission.
Sure old people like to flaunt the letters AMG, it means to them that they made it.....imo after driving a cl55 and an sl55....its not just a cruiser.......
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than act ... (fixedhalo)
Posted by: gravitymachine at 4:32 PM 7-8-2004
still, as soft as AMG's are, it's gotta be stiffer than my mk4 GTI
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (PsyberVW)
Posted by: GTurboI at 4:41 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by PsyberVW » |
Was it exceeding the maximum posted (or unposted) speed limit? This isn't being driven properly at all That's being driven like an adolescent. Why do people feel the need to drive performance cars on the highway as if they were on a track? |
does it hurt when you fall from your high horse?| Quote, originally posted by Imola Yellow 20AEGTI » |
| A true driver's car doesn't have an automatic trans |
The C32 AMG is pretty true to me even though its auto 
Post Title:
Posted by: UINT64_MAX at 5:01 PM 7-8-2004
I've never driven an AMG myself, but I can certainly see the appeal. Power is a luxury and the AMG style smooth and effortless power delivery is something that would certainly appeal to luxury buyers.
Imagine having a car that at all legal speeds and most extra-legal speeds NEVER felt like it could use more power. That's what AMG stands for to me, and as a highway or cruising car it would be awesome.
For twisty roads, track days or spirited drives AMG may not be the best choice. I would probably prefer something nimble, light and raw like an Elise. However, you'd have to be crazy to not see why wealthy people would want the extra power and luxury. Sure it's a status symbol, but I think it has earned the right to be one.
-Andrew
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (Reflex5.5)
Posted by: jacobyb at 5:58 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by Reflex5.5 » |
| Bah, AMG is a joke these days. They take just about any car in the lineup, put in it a big engine, nice wheels and a bodykit and slap an AMG badge on the trunk. In complete contast of how M cars are being designed, engineered and tested. |
So let me get this straight just so there is no misunderstanding. You think that a company that hand-builds every engine that it places in a car, and dyno tests each engine to make sure that it is making the claimed power that it advertises, then places it inot a car that has a massive brake upgrade, a massive suspension upgrade, better rubber for vastly improved traction, and is made lighter weight is just a joke? I would hate to know what it is going to take to impress you.
Has anyone here driven a big body AMG Benz? The last E55 AMG that I drove not only accelerayed like a mopnster, it handled on par or better than any other luxury sport sedan that I have driven, and stopped on a dime.
I guess I don't understand. If you compare it with a Ferrrari 575 or a 996 I guess that it is not a real sports car, but to say that they are just badged up versions of the original is ignorant to the 10th degree.
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (GTurboI)
Posted by: PsyberVW at 6:06 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by GTurboI » |
| does it hurt when you fall from your high horse? |
oh yes. ouch ouch. mommy. 
You're going to tell me that these cars aren't all meant to be driven the same way? RESPONSIBLY
The law doesn't care if it's an H2 or a X50, the speed limits and all other traffic laws still apply on the same public highway.
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (PsyberVW)
Posted by: vw86gti at 6:23 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by PsyberVW » |
|
So for you to be saying that, I take you have NEVER, EVER exceeded the posted speed limit by any more than 5 mph...hmmmm????
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (vw86gti)
Posted by: PsyberVW at 6:28 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by vw86gti » |
So for you to be saying that, I take you have NEVER, EVER exceeded the posted speed limit by any more than 5 mph...hmmmm???? |
I didn't say whether I did or not, nor does it matter what anyone actually does with the car.
The argument they posed was that the cars were meant to be driven that way, which is entirely false.
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (vw86gti)
Posted by: GTurboI at 7:04 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by vw86gti » |
So for you to be saying that, I take you have NEVER, EVER exceeded the posted speed limit by any more than 5 mph...hmmmm???? |
Yeah...what he said...but in a more tactful way 
Post Title: Re: are amg cars more of a status symbol than actual performance car? (PsyberVW)
Posted by: MI_canuck at 7:26 PM 7-8-2004
| Quote, originally posted by PsyberVW » |
I didn't say whether I did or not, nor does it matter what anyone actually does with the car. The argument they posed was that the cars were meant to be driven that way, which is entirely false. |
dude... can you be any more @nal??
German cars such as the AMGs were designed to be driven on Germany's unlimited speed autobahns!!! They just happen to be available here... I'm NOT telling anyone to break the law and speed... but cars like AMGs are designed to be capable of achieving speeds of 150+ mph (and smooth and stable at that)... To me AMG = MEANT to be driven to it's full capabilities, albeit in a safe and responsable manner (ie. NOT in populated areas, or during rush hour traffic, etc....)
You should read an article in the latest EVO (July '04 I think)... the "Speed" issue... anyways the one with the orange Gallardo on the cover among other FAST cars... there's an article in there about the said author picking up a CL65 (612hp, 738lbs-ft) at AMG... one that had it's 155mph speed limiter upped to 186mph... (and before AMG releases the car with the increased speed limiter, they fully inspect the car's tires, suspension, brakes, etc.).... the author goes on to describe how he drove the car on the unlimited German autobahns on his way back to the UK, smooth and stable without any issues but being responsible and reaching to incredible speeds in areas that made it safe to do so (ie. on the unlimited portions - some autobahns aren't unlimited I guess, and other European countries don't have unlimited speed limits of course)... very interesting article
cheers 
|