come on VW, you must keep your loyal buyers happy, while looking for new buyers in different markets

ps good job george

A Lupo with sticky tires, upgraded suspension, and a feul efficent TDi stuffed under the hood. A lil GTi for the frugal.

The Polo may not have any prestige here with the general public but niether does Touareg or Phaeton yet VW has no fear bringing those new names state side. I don't see why they should fear the name Polo. However if they want to get nostalgic bring it in under the Rabbit nameplate. It is much closer in size, price and marketing position to the origanal rabbit then the Golf V is. Drop in the 1.8T or the upcoming 2.0 FSi and FSi Turbo and you have the car many of us would gladly sign up for. I know I would love to have a lighter, faster, more efficent GTi.

Unto the New Beetle. I don't think making this car smaller is going to go over well at all. It allready has the most useless rear seat since the Corrado. It sure does not need a smaller trunk and I like the open airy feeling I get sitting behind the open dash board and cathedral cieling. Its part of the charm of the current New Beetle I would not be willing to give up in the design.

Keep the current platform but unlike the Cabriolet and Cabrio keep updating the engines to stay with the current line up and keep improving the interior.

Offer up some more special editions or toss in 4 motion for us.

My current Dream New Beetle that is feasable and very producable by VW would be a Turbo RS. It would have the following.

Fixed rear wing ala RSi with rear defuser.
2.0 FSi Turbo
6 speed
4 Motion
Gti Recaros or the R32 seats.
Turbo S interior.
Audi TT style knee braces (for cornering and to keep your knee from slamming that sharp corner on the dash board.)
18" Rims.
Upgraded brakes and suspension.

This would bring the car up to the same price point as the R32 or how about just making an R32 New Beetle?

Tom aka Eunos94

P.S. G'damn it VW get off your butt and bring in the Polo allready I have been waiting since 1989 to buy one here. (thats when I drove one in Germany).

North America isn't into small hatchbacks, unless they're image cars that have more to offer. The next Golf/Jetta V will be higher class cars that won't compete with the Civic, Corolla, Focus etc. anymore. The Polo sedan should be brought in to take some of that market positioning, leaving the New Beetle (based on the Polo chassis) to take the entry-level position in Volkswagen's lineup. Making the New Beetle Volkswagen's entry-level car would finally make it a legit successor to the aircooled Beetle.

Personally, I'd jump for joy if I had a smaller, nimbler New Beetle weighing only, say, 2600 lbs, with the same 1.9l TDI-PD unit probably getting 50 MPG with ease.

One thing I think we can all agree on: Especially with the end of the aircooled Beetle this year, isn't it about time Volkswagen crosses off the "new" and starts calling this car the Beetle?

3.2l, awd, 6sp from the R32 on the current MkIV chassis. It could be done. I'll not be surprised to see a tuner do this in the near future.

"If one does not fail at times, one has not challenged himself." - Ferdinand Porsche

"Not another brick in the wall... " - Pink Floyd

Yesterdays hippies, make way for today's arts n croissants crowd!

Quote, originally posted by lonewolf »

I think going forward in the next gen, the Beetle should be made of Aluminium and also given a Hybrid or Fuel-Cell option. It can be used by VW to experiment all new stuff and as a trendsetter. A light-weight and sporty inexpensive version would be great.

It was done, as a precursor to the R32. It was called the New Beetle RSI.

1. Jump start the press with several restyled concepts only to be circulated here in the good USA annual ring of car shows.

2. Get some inter competition going on between design houses within VW and even source outside insight of the new design.

3. Have Arnold Worldwide call me at 614.767.2807 for end user campaign directive and insight.

4. Launch the car with its own "first" in power plants instead of letting the car have a "trickle down power plant".

5. Have the New Beetle Brand Manager call me at 614.767.2807 for dealer directives and design transitions campaign.

Thanks for your time,

ChrisG

Never pass up a good opportunity to keep your mouth shut.

http://mason-tech.com/

As far as I'm concerned, the original beetle was a very simple economical fun car. The fun factor in the older beetle is timeless, it's just the way the car is that makes it fun. It's just a good car. Does everything well. It was great back in the day but unfortunately, it's now obsolete. She was successfully replaced by the golf. In my heart, her spiritual successor.

The new beetle looks kind-of like the older one but is a heavy un-practical expensive fun car. The fun factor in the newer beetle is the novelty and the retro good looks. That's it. Unfortunately those virtues have a short expiry date. The new beetle also has flaws where the older beetle excelled. The ergonomics of the new beetle are not a VW standard.

The answer :

Make the new beetle what the older beetle was. The Mini succeeded at that, she kept the essence of the old car but with today's technology.

But how could we do the same with the beetle? Most think the rear-engine rwd design is obsolete, but I think the new beetle would need that configuration to look, drive and just plainly resemble her ancestor.

That probably never will happen. But I bet that if VW could figure out a way to squeeze there current engines in a new rwd beetle chassis, it would be a real success.

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The New Beetle seems to be sort of in the spirit of the old Corrado and Scirocco; a little cramped inside, especially in the back, but sporty and fun. A "Concept 2" New Beetle based on the Polo would pretty much do away with more room. Maybe VW should offer such a vehicle to the sporty-minded, and offer the Polo as basic transport for those who need a lot of room in a little package. The angular Polo would certainly offer more room and and more comfort than a Polo-based New Beetle would. So here's what VW and VWoA should do - offer the Polo in North America for buyers who want economy, a Polo-=based new Beetle for buyers who want sport, and a Polo GTI for those who want both!

The point of the article was to make a smaller beetle, cheaper, a true "poeples car" that is still fun to drive ala the Mini. I don't think that an R32, AWD, concept R etc. car really fits the bill here.

However, with cars and SUV's the trend has been bigger and better. so this might be an avenue to pursue. Although if VW opted to make this there sports car, how many people are really going to be all that impressed? Between the Jetta, Golf & New beetle it comes in that order of aerodynamics. The beetle is no race car.

I think the beetle is nice, but I don't think VW will spend the time building a new one. In fact I think the retro bus will probably replace it as something of an option against the PT Cruiser.

I might be nice to bring the Polo over here, but it has zero name recognition. You couldn't build a race series around it, people would laugh at a "go-cart" race here in the state. I doubt it would have the cuteness factor of the new beetle to draw fans. It would appeal to peoples pocketbooks, and the size appeal to city dwellers.

VW has options, just not sure if any of these are it.

cheers,
Bob

Quote, originally posted by George@VWvortex »

Maybe a new 2-seater mid-engined Beetle based on the new roadster/Concept R chassis.

Quote, originally posted by Wookiee »

From all accounts, i thought the beetle is going to be dropped. I don't think the convertible sales are near expectations and the fad is failing. The point of the article was to make a smaller beetle, cheaper, a true "poeples car" that is still fun to drive ala the Mini. I don't think that an R32, AWD, concept R etc. car really fits the bill here. However, with cars and SUV's the trend has been bigger and better. so this might be an avenue to pursue. Although if VW opted to make this there sports car, how many people are really going to be all that impressed? Between the Jetta, Golf & New beetle it comes in that order of aerodynamics. The beetle is no race car. I think the beetle is nice, but I don't think VW will spend the time building a new one. In fact I think the retro bus will probably replace it as something of an option against the PT Cruiser. I might be nice to bring the Polo over here, but it has zero name recognition. You couldn't build a race series around it, people would laugh at a "go-cart" race here in the state. I doubt it would have the cuteness factor of the new beetle to draw fans. It would appeal to peoples pocketbooks, and the size appeal to city dwellers. VW has options, just not sure if any of these are it. cheers, Bob

VW can do with the New Beetle what they did with the Old Beetle - continue to make incremental improvements without major redesign. And in fact, they are in a much better position to do so because the New Beetle is not their primary source of income as the Old Beetle was. Just not for as long a time as they did with the original Beetle.

Sales have declined which is really no big surprise. However, the Beetle Cabriolet is already successful - I'm amazed at the number I've seen on the roads here in the Northeast, given they were not available in time for the spring buying window.

Like the Rabbit Cabio and later the Golf Cabrio, the Beetle doesn't have to be about the latest technology if it has other things going for it. Especially if the Beetle does end up being positioned below the Golf in the model lineup.

VW could offer an entry level car as a Beetle with the TDI engine (sorry, my bias) for less than the base Golf, a Beetle with a 1.8T for around the price of a base Golf and then the Beetle Cabriolet kind of stands on its own.

As much as I think the Polo (and Lupo) are cool cars, I suspect the Beetle as an entry level car in the US would do much better than the Polo, which to many would be yet another small box with little to distinguish it from other small boxes on the market.

Regards,
Tom
98 GTI (VR6)
00 Bug (1.8T)

Quote, originally posted by George@VWvortex »

Thanks man. BTW, you're in Rome? How cool. I got there last summer, and would move there in a heartbeat if work and family weren't a factor in residence choice. I'm jealous.

hehe, check your IM.

But speaking of armchairs, did you know you could take the fattest reclining lazy-chair, set it down with seat vertical, top end down to taillights - you can then top off the backside with a trad nineteen inch TV, picture tube meeting neatly into your car's backlight, and even transport a couple of longish lamps and shades tucked in to either side? As I did. You and yours in both fronts set back to their farthest and highest positionings, donning if you will your own lampshade of a hat towards the uniquely forward location of the sunroof. A moving experience to enjoy. Dah dah dah. And Golf squareback-free.

Naysayers think they can't update our friend, the New Beetle. As if Mays' update on the timeless style requires the attention. I was expecting a gradual shift to lightweight materials - she's too heavy - including that new kind of aluminum - trans-hydrogenated or whatever they called it - I believe was released by Karmann around the time of the New Beetle's introduction. A new base engine to trounce the Mazda3. Six-speed manual mit smoother clutch (retained). Where's that nice non-metallic turquoise I've been waiting for?

And no improvements to my beloved. Instead my 2000 GLX truly remains the most fully realized of the New generation. The electric spoiler deploys as I want it to. The hooptie head restraints I like are gone. The chromed moving parts and the vestigial tail keyhole - all gone. Today this is cheaply covered over in VW emblem poly-film; touch it, the one that matches on the bonnet in front is now similarly reduced from a tactile three, to just two dimensions. All could be overlooked if there was something new and actually improved upon, or if this was an economy car. No they couldn't. Pay more today for the "S," and you also lose the lovely, simple seat perforations and the charming blue-light special dash. You get Saturn-like ugly wheels.

For sure, the next generation will have Smart new competition. I ask if heritage design could make a Carerra from a Beetle mold, why not take the simpler, amortized Boxster and use it not just as basis for Concept R but also for a timely return to a (rear) mid-engined Beetle? Furthermore, now that Puebla has gone out with the old, to be at the forefront of small car engineering and as the industry moves toward a fuel-cell future, Volkswagen designers may find freedom in that it won't matter one wit which end to place the motor. Air- and water-cooled lovers, unite!

Thank you for positing the question.

Paul Landerman
PLander@PeoplePC.com

I did not buy the New Beetle because it was a novelty or a fad. I bought it because at 6'5" and 350lbs I fit in very few cars on the market. I looked at and drove virtually every single car on the market. I had it down to 5 vehicles that met my criteria. Fun, unique, quick if not out right fast, safe, and not an SUV.

Saab Vigen Convertible
BMW M3 Convertible
Mercedes SL500
Golf GTi
Jetta 1.8T.

The Mercedes lost out because of its extremly poor gas milage and its price point. Just not practical to be slugging a near $100,000 car thru the snow and parking it at the mall to go xmas shopping. I felt guilty for abusing such a fine car.

The BMW M3 Convertible was a real tough one to pass up but I did not want to deal with RWD in the snow again so I let that one slip away.

The Golf GTi and Jetta 1.8T were very high on my list. I had owned 28 previous VW's and really liked the idea of being back in this comunity. I fit very nicely in them but would have to pass on the sunroof option if I wanted my entire head to come for the ride. Which also meant no leather interior.

Saab Vigen won out. Fast, different, the most comfy seats I have ever sat in, creamy wonderfull leather, crappy shifter but a wonderful engine. The FWD would get me thru the worst snow and the Top coming down would make summers a true pleasure. I was sold.

I have a very close freind that has his own dealership and he mentioned that there was a Vigen coming up at auction that thursday and I should come check it out. I agreed and crabbed my check book. We did the pre auction inspection and drove it. I was truly in love. Then my wife spotted this yellow beetle. I had previously driven a 1998 and that car was slow, had tons of problems even though it was new and at the time I walked away extremly dissapointed. She dragged me over anyways and I agreed to drive it around. I opened the Giant Door and marveled at how easy it was to enter (bad back) I looked up at the cathedral ceiling and noticed that even with a sunroof I had plenty of head room. I took it for a spin and loved its power. Ok it was not as fast as the other cars but every bit as fast as the Golf and Jetta. I decided to watch the auction and see what it did.
I ended up being the lone bidder and took it home. I have not looked back since. I could go out and buy an M3 to park next to it or for that matter pretty much anything else. I choose to drive this car because for my situation its the best compromise of everything I needed in a car.

My car is not impractical it is only impractical for you.

Just make the Beetle the entry level car in the US - shoot for $15k almost fully loaded price tag and it will sell itself. Add new body style (4 doors, sport wagon, mini pickup, panel van, "thing" SUV etc) and churn them out from Mexico!

For 2005, according to Jamie's info, the New Beetle's supposed to get its largest "facelift" to date, which evidently comprises of a new bodykit, and some interior work (probably aimed at keeping it closer to date). Once the Golf/Jetta V hit market with the new engine lineup, I could see the New Beetle being used to exhaust the leftover outgoing engine lineup. I'd say, until 2007 or so, VAG can keep the New Beetle happily chugging along. Then we'll be at the real crossroads, where VAG finally has to decide what to do next.

Already, though, for 2004, we'll have a must-have niche model in the New Beetle: For $19k, you can be the first in the US with a DSG tranny, and mated to the new TDI-PD unit to boot. Personally, I'd say that model is going to bring an excellent combination of, fun, economy, and technology.

I think, if its possible, Volkswagen should just work on stuffing what MkV tech they can into the New Beetle; namely, the new engines, and the IRS. Personally, after two New Beetles and a lot of fun, I'm already pining for some more luxury and comfort, but without the unneccesary size of, say, an A4; hence, I'm considering a highline Golf V once they come out. But, if I could get another New Beetle which had the carpet, seat, and trim quality of the Toaureg (and Golf V), a 2.0l TDI-PD unit mated to a DSG transmission, and the Golf V underpinnings and technology, I would be in heaven, and would gladly pay whatever the asking price of such a vehicle.

Either way, I'm almost done paying off my Beetle, and I'm planning on keeping her for the long haul.

That would be a great idea. . .and oh yeah, that Concept R is hot!

Your case is interesting and credible.

Your example underlines the fact that personal observations tends to be made from one's point of view and perspective.

It was great to read and understand how the new beetle matched your life so well.

Thinking... You remember the press release of the new golf V? They where highlighting the fact that the new golf niche market is based on a great variety of people, life styles and expectations.

That's what I like and respect about VW's, they are true world cars.

Unfortunately, I think that the current beetle design has too many compromises to hold up to that VW standard.

Modified by VWinA at 11:33 AM 10-28-2003

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please VW bring the Polo, could be GTi 1.8t

And while they're at it, Volkswagen should make a sport version of the Beetle that has the "Beetle Cup" skirt kit on it.

-rear engine
-rear wheel drive
-tdi ~ 50mpg
-0-60 in 8 seconds.
-ultra simple and ultra-reliable design
-5 years bumper to bumper warranty (that she won't need)
-simple, light and modern design
-orthopedic seats with durable material
-ultra reliable and over-engineered
-gas suspension
-4 wheel disc brakes
-up to date crashworthiness
-Porsche handling (the good part)
-light and strong galvanized body

I would see the cars selling around 23g's but they would be considered as investments.

Simplicity + over the top Quality.

Estimated life span : 20 years.

I would pay for a car like that, the perfect first car, the perfect second car.

Modified by VWinA at 2:38 PM 11-4-2003

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My girlfriend is getting that car, and I have to say, I'm tempted to get one too. I love my 1.8T, but I sure would like a TDI with the DSG.