FYI, the engine is in a '99.5 Jetta (MKIV) and has 145k miles on it. Everything on the engine is original except for the MAF (replaced 15k miles ago) and intake manifold shifter rod (replaced 10k miles ago). The noise has been present for at least the last 40k miles and doesn't seem to have gotten any worse. The clip was recorded using a Mini DV digital camcorder sitting directly below the tranny bell housing.

Click here to hear timing chain noise! (1.4Mb)

UPDATE (1/5/04) ...................

A bunch of us replaced my timing chains this weekend (1/3/04 and 1/4/04 - 147.5k miles on the original parts) since I couldn't stand the rattling noise anymore and didn't want to risk destroying the engine any more than I already had. Well, we found out what was rattling. The upper guide rail was snapped in half and a 1"x2" piece from the middle of it had slid down and wedged itself between the upper chain, the inner intermediate sprocket and the block. The piece rattled whenever the engine was running at it's harmonic frequency, which appears to be somewhere between 1000 and 1200 RPMs.

I'll post pics as soon as the whole job is complete - we still need to put the tranny back in and reassemble the engine bay.

Based on my noise and what we found, I'm confident when I say that if you hear a rattle then some part of the timing chain setup is either loose or broken. That being said, I wouldn't ignore timing chain noise too long as it means that there is the POTENTIAL for something bad to happen. Not that it definitely will, just that it might. I'm sure I could have driven for quite a while longer with the guide rail chunk rattling behind the intermediate sprocket, but I'm glad that the broken piece is out of there and I know that it can't cause a problem in the future.

UPDATE (1/8/04) ...................

The new timing chains are finally in and the car is completely back together. It started up without a hitch the first time and is COMPLETELY SILENT. Not one hint of timing chain noise!!!

I'll be posting a sound clip of the new chains for comparison with the clip of the chain (actually upper guide) rattle as soon as I can get my hands on my dad's mini DV cam.

UPDATE (2/28/04) ...................

I finally posted the DIY for replacing timing chain parts. Here is the link ...

Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6

I also posted pics of the old and new timing chain parts to illustrate how much wear occurred in 150k miles. You can find the pics in the following thread ...

Comparison of new and old/worn/failed timing chain parts

UPDATE (8/20/06) ...................

Here's an even better video clip of bad timing chain noise - http://www.agthompsonfamily.co...2.wmv. Thanks dankvwguy!

Modified by VgRt6 at 12:51 PM 8-20-2006

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

Thanks.

now that i have heard that is sounds like my problem...it makes the noise till i get to about 3000 RPM's..

then it goes away...how did you fix it?

edit:with 111,000 on mine im fearing that one morning im gonna fire her up and..clanalangalang it will go.

Modified by corpsedub at 1:45 PM 11-26-2003

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

Need to organise a trip to Montreal Canada?
Fun In Montreal Party organisation for out of town people! Come experience the night life!

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

Cool! I have that exact same sound. I always thought it was my shifter rod again. I'll verify where my sound comes from in the engine bay.

Need to organise a trip to Montreal Canada?
Fun In Montreal Party organisation for out of town people! Come experience the night life!

I don't know if I'd be happy that it's not the shifter rod. Replacing the shifter rod or even replacing the upper intake manifold and shifter rod is cheaper and/or less work than replacing chains.

EDIT: Even though I'm virtually certain it's not the shifter rod, I'll double check tomorrow. I need to change my oil filter, so the hood will already be up.

Modified by VgRt6 at 5:47 PM 11-26-2003

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

'74 Super Beetle RIP
'89 GLI RIP
'95 GTI Blown then Blown up
'97 GTI Sold, and regreting it!

Need to organise a trip to Montreal Canada?
Fun In Montreal Party organisation for out of town people! Come experience the night life!

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

While my timing chain noise may sound bad, I believe it's normal for a high mileage VR. It's inevitable even with regular, frequent synthetic oil changes. Also, it doesn't necessarily mean that there's DEFINITELY a problem, just that there is POTENTIALLY a problem. Honestly, while I've spent some time thinking about the chain noise, I'm not that concerned about an imminent failure. There are VR6s that have gone well past my mileage with noise for over 100k of it. It's not a bad idea to replace them if the chance arises (like when a clutch goes), but if it were something that had a high probability of failure, I'm sure VW would have recommended a mileage for replacing them.

One more thing, even though the chain noise is audible in the clip, I don't hear it unless the windows are down and the car is up against a wall, like at a drive-thru. With the windows up, all I hear is the sweet sound of the VR.

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

Thanks for the recording. That is useful.

ian

I find it interesting that the chain noise only occurs in the narrow RPM range that it does. The tensioners should be keeping the chain tight, but dont seem to be doing a good job in the 1000-1200 RPM range. I wonder if this is due to the design of the VR6 or the chain system. Maybe there's not enough oil pressure to keep the upper tensioner tight when the RPMS are low. It's hard to tell in the clip, but at higher RPMs the chain noise is not just covered up by the louder engine noise, it actually seems to be gone. I'd be more worried than I am if the noise was presnt over a wider RPM range, especially one that the engine spendsa lot of time in. It spends very little time in the 1000-1200 RPM range. With my bad luck, the chain will probably snap or jump while the engine is revving through this range.

My guess is that I won't wait that mucch longer before doing the chains. When I finally do, I'm going to post pics of the setup to show how worn a setup this noisy really is. If I'm feeling ambitious, I may also put some sort or DIY post or video together for doing the chain job.

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

I'm sure your motor will be fine. IM f1forkvr6 if you want some more positive feedback about timing chain noise. He's got over 200k miles on his Passat VR6 and has had chain noise for at least half of the miles.

It's interesting that despite the large number of people who say they have chain noise, I'm only aware of TWO people who've had their chains snap. One is Jose and I think there were extenuating circumstances with his failure. The other is 88GTiVR6. His failed at around 80k miles and bent three valves (http://bellsouthpwp.net/a/r/ar...n.htm). His mileage also seems low for a failure.

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=849574

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

The A4's have the same issue, just doesn't seem to happen as often.
you can use all the A4 parts in your A3-B4 as well if that eases your mind.
You just need to make sure you swap out the cam & intermediate gears at the same time.

All in all, a 5-600 dollar repair is to be expected after 100-150 KMI!
Most cars are ready for the crusher by then from other manufacturers.

Good informational post.
I posted a link to all the PN's and illustration earlier...

And if you hear chains slapping, you shouldn't ignore it.
Once the chains wear through the composite plastic on the guide, they then start wearing away at the metal backer and fill your oil and with filings that get embedded in your bearing halves.

If they are noisy, the repair bill for putting it off is much more than taking care of your car today.

The valves & guides for parts alone in a VR6 nearly meet the cost of the entire timing chain job...

If you happen to crack a piston, then you can basically junk the motor and buy a crate engine.

My point is, just because its been running like that for 30k doesn't mean you aren't destroying it every time you run it.


Modified by vr6golf.com at 8:43 AM 11-27-2003

Just kidding - it's good to discuss this topic. I'll probably end up doing it sooner than later, if only for peace of mind. Maybe we'll have another big storm here this winter and my car will be snowed in for days. That would give me plenty of time to do the repair.

Modified by VgRt6 at 1:26 PM 11-27-2003

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

I have that sound, or close to it around 1200rpms. Also at 1200 rpms i have a pretty hard shaking coming from the front of the car. Both of these happen in gear and in neutral . Now to comlicate things more i'm going to get a GIAC chip installed on tuesday -- would this totally void my warranty? or would they even be able to detect it and how do i go about talking to the dealer about noisy timing chains, and warraty repair without getting ripped off with diagnostic fees?

I find it interesting that the shake occurs at virtually the same RPMs as the chain noise. Coincidence? Or does the shake contribute to the chain making noise? Very, very interesting.

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

For the chip what if get the following done?

If you wish to
have a stock chip module assemnled(allows stock
software to be plugged back in for dealer
service,warranty etc...)that is an additional
$50.

Would that be undetectable?

Modified by DrTacoElf at 6:34 PM 11-27-2003

I wish this were the case with my car. Mine make the noise with the clutch in and out.

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *

my shop sucks

Thanks for ruining my Thanksgiving holiday. J/K. I know it's serious. I'm going to see if I can scrape some $$$ together and reserve James' time (expect an email) and see if I can get this taken care of. Stupid timing chains.

Now: '99.5 Jetta GLS VR6 (281,000 miles and counting! ) - Stupid CEL
Then: '90 Passat GL 16v - (RIP - i.e., Rest in Pain!!! in a junkyard somewhere you LEMON POS - still loved her though )

* The Official VgRt6 MKIV/VR6 DIY Thread Master List *