Quote, originally posted by dcowan699 »

Jim, I may take you up on that idea about ordering from your dealer. I'm beginning to believe my dealership is thinking I'm a grouppie or some kind of a nut hanging around their parts counter like I do. OK, OK, I know what you're thinking. I'll get back with you on that after the GTG. Thanks

I have an order in right now for parts. So if you know the part numbers you need, it would be good to tell me now. Otherwise it might be a month before I place another order.

I am also getting 10 paddle sets (in satin black) for stock. These are the same for either Touareg or Phaeton. So if Michael finds out he really likes his and wants to keep them, I will have a set available for you. Connector too.

TOUAREG HOW TO INFO: MP3, XM, CELL or VIDEO, KEYLESS START, PADDLE SHIFT.

2004 Black/Anthracite with European suspension height, paddle shifters, tinting, keyless start. 2007 MB S600 My band's website: http://www.horndogsband.com/

The good news: The bezels with the 'B' suffix fit over the paddle shifter arms without any problems.

The bad news: Seems someone made an error packing one of the bezels in the box, and I have one brown one, and one petrol coloured one. Of course, the one that I took out of the box to photograph in Switzerland was the brown one. I didn't discover the petrol coloured one until I arrived back home in Canada...

I'll try to get the wiring finished up in the next few days.

Michael

Suffix 'B' bezels - they fit.


Modified by PanEuropean at 9:59 PM 8-15-2008

I'll email my dealer, I am sure they will send me a replacement one by post. It's not a show-stopping problem.

Michael

2004 Black/Anthracite with European suspension height, paddle shifters, tinting, keyless start. 2007 MB S600 My band's website: http://www.horndogsband.com/

1. I assume when the car is in D and you press one of the paddles, manual gear selection mode is started and the car holds the gear selected until you press another paddle, or max RPM is reached (some systems shift, some don't). My question is how do you leave manual mode and let the car automatically do up and down shifting again?

2. What is the estimated total parts cost for this retrofit? Thanks.

1) car will remain in manual mode for 15 or 30 seconds after a shift (not sure which, I don't recall). If no further manual shift is made it will go back into auto mode. If you want to hold the gear longer, then you just slide the gearshift into tiptronic. If you want to go back to automatic mode quicker, move the gearshift to tiptronic and then back again. I don't recall what happens at max RPM.

2) I sell the Touareg paddle kits for $340 plus shipping. The Phaeton is pretty much the same as the Touareg; paddles, trim pieces, wire harness. The only thing I haven't checked is what ends are needed on the wire harness to go into the connector at the transmission controller. I'm not sure Michael has even checked this yet.

TOUAREG HOW TO INFO: MP3, XM, CELL or VIDEO, KEYLESS START, PADDLE SHIFT.

Philippe

The paddle shifter installation is moving along, more slowly that I expected, and with a few more complications than I had expected, but it is moving along.

The actual installation of the paddles was quick and simple, it took perhaps 20 minutes. The bezel confusion (A suffix vs. B suffix) slowed things down a bit, because I had to return to Switzerland to get the part. For the record – it is definitely the B suffix part that is needed. The B suffix bezel has a fractionally longer hole – perhaps 2mm longer - than the A suffix one, so it can be installed on the newer design of paddle shifter arms. It is almost impossible to tell the difference by eyeballing the two parts – you have to check the part number, which is molded into the back of the bezel.

My Swiss dealer found the matching connector that plugs into the paddle shifter electrical connection, it is part number 4B0 973 605. My Canadian dealer found the correct VW repair wire to insert into the connector, it is part number 000 979 018. The connector and repair wire assembly works like this: First, you remove two of the empty pins from the connector (pins 4 and 5), then, you buy one VW repair wire, cut the repair wire in half, and insert the two ends of the repair wire into the pins of the connector. There is a metal pin on each end of the repair wire, so, if you need two pins, you just buy one repair wire. Voila, you have a ‘mil spec’ connector, with no messing around trying to crimp tiny wires onto tiny pins. These two parts were inexpensive – less than $15 total.

I had a great deal of difficulty figuring out the wiring diagram, until I finally realized that the wiring diagram is a wee bit misleading. If you look at the detail extract of the paddle shifter wiring diagram below, you will see what APPEARS to be two wires leading from the paddle shifters themselves to the J527 Steering Wheel Electronics Control Module. I could not figure out where to connect the two wires that came out of the paddle shifter assembly to the steering wheel electronics control module – the diagram just did not make sense to me. Finally, I realized that the diagram did not depict an ‘electrical’ connection to the steering wheel electronics control module, instead, it depicted a physical connection – the little plastic assembly that holds the connector leading from the paddles clips onto (attaches to) the steering wheel electronics control module! This is why there are no pin numbers shown.

Having figured that out – and that took a while – the next task (I thought) was to run two 0,35 mm wires from the paddle shifter connector to the J217 Transmission Control Module, using the snazzy connector and repair wire device I described in the third paragraph, above. From past experience, I know that VW does not run wires in cable bundles for options that they do not build into a car – for example, the keyless start system. So, I ASSUMED (I bet you can see what's coming…) that I would have to run 0,35 mm wires from the paddle shifter all the way to the transmission control module.

I found a friendly, neighborhood VW dealer who was quite happy to provide me with a service bay, toolbox, coveralls, and adult supervision, and began to go digging for the J217 transmission control module. About 4 hours later, I finally reached it, after massive disassembly of the car. I had to remove the plenum chamber cover, which is located at the bottom of the windshield, the coolant expansion tank, the right hand side windshield wiper motor, and a few other unknown bits and pieces. Having reached the control module, I disassembled the huge connector, only to find that….. VW had already supplied wires on pins T88a/20 and T88a/59. Sure enough, they were there, exactly the same colours (blue and brown, respectively) as the wiring diagram promised. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry – the good news was that I would not have to run wires through the firewall, the bad news was that I had another 4 hours of re-assembly of the front end of the car to do, before I could drive the car again.

By now it was the end of the working day, and I did not have any more time to spend on this project. What I have to do now is find out where the black 17 pin connector T17c is located (my guess is that it is probably on the steering column somewhere) and have a look and see if those same blue and brown wires are present on pins 13 and 14 of this connector. If they are not there, then I will move a bit up the wiring diagram to the next connector in the direction of the transmission control module – connector T10ga – because I know the wires will be there. Then, I have to run two wires from my newly created plug that goes into the paddle shifter to either connector T17c or connector T10ga. I will do this sometime next week.

I have posted a few photos below that I hope will help you make sense of all this.

Michael

Assembling the connector that will plug into the paddle shifter connector

Detail of wiring diagram 3/5.
Note that the connection between the paddle shifter and the J527 is PHYSICAL, not electrical.
In other words, the paddle shifter connector clips onto the J527, rather than plugging into it.
This confused me quite a bit until I got it figured out.

A photo of what the relationship of the paddle shifter switch (E438 and E439),
the connector that comes on the paddle shifters (T5af),
and the J527 Steering Wheel Electronics Control Module is.

Where the J217 Transmission Control Module is located
You have to dig down quite a bit to get to it.

4 hours later…
After removing a whole ton of parts, none of which came apart easily.

The two wires are already there! (This is the T88a connector).
I know for sure they run back to the T10ga connector. Maybe they even run back to the T17c connector.

Modified by PanEuropean at 10:04 PM 8-15-2008

I found T10ga - it is located on the top of the J217 Automatic Transmission Control Module box. I was unable to find any reference to T17c in any of the North American VW service publications (Bentley CD, VESIS, etc.) - this seems to be an oversight in the documentation. Is there anyone here on the forum that has access to European service documentation, who could check in the 'component locations' section of the Phaeton documentation and see if there is a reference to T17c?

I would much prefer to check and see if the two wires (brown and blue) are present at T17c before I go in and dis-assemble everything again to get at T10ga. In fact, I think that if I do have to check at T10ga, I am going to go borrow a borescope and have a look at it that way, rather than taking everything apart again...

Michael

T10ga connector location
from North American VESIS documentation

T10ga connector location
photo of my Phaeton, after removing the plenum cover, passenger side windshield wiper motor, etc.


Modified by PanEuropean at 10:06 PM 8-15-2008

Modified by dcowan699 at 7:58 PM 10-8-2005

2004 Black/Anthracite with European suspension height, paddle shifters, tinting, keyless start. 2007 MB S600 My band's website: http://www.horndogsband.com/

Does T10ga have other wires coming in and out? Hard to tell by the photos.

Incidentally, there is a black 17 pin connector called: flat contact housing with
helper contact catch steering col. combi switch. Another 17 pin connector (no color mentioned) called: flat contact housing coupling piece wiring harness for dash panel.

Modified by spockcat at 9:28 AM 10-9-2005

TOUAREG HOW TO INFO: MP3, XM, CELL or VIDEO, KEYLESS START, PADDLE SHIFT.

Michael

Hi David:

Thanks for your kind thoughts. This project is turning into one of those 'learning by discovery' excercises - kind of like what a 5 year old goes through when he or she decides to tear apart the contents of one of the kitchen cupboards. I'm not at all discouraged or frustrated by it, in fact, it's kind of fun. The only problem is that it is taking forever to complete.

I have put a request in to Robert Bentley publications (the folks who produce the Phaeton repair manual on CD) to ask if they know where this connector is. We'll see if they can help. I know that our friends in Dresden would tell us right away if I asked, but that kind of takes all the fun out of it - normally we try to figure these modifications out by ourself, and then when everything is done, ask the Dresden staff to have a look and see if we made any errors or omissions.

As for the yellow connector you referred to (I think it is the one in the picture below) - that is probably an airbag connector. In the Phaeton, anything that has to do with occupant protection or occupant restraint (airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners, stuff like that) will have yellow wrapping on the wire bundles, and yellow connectors. That provides a warning to technicians not to test continuity of these wires with a conventional tester - something that could result in unwanted activation of the airbag. For the purpose of this project, I needed to remove that connector to be able to physically fit the paddle shifter connector onto the J527 Steering Wheel Electronics Controller. That was a very straightforward task - remove the yellow connector, physically install (clip on) the paddle shifter connector bracket, then re-connect the yellow connector.

By the way - whenever it is necessary to remove (disconnect) any connector that relates to occupant protection - meaning, any yellow connector - it is important that the ignition is turned off. Otherwise, the airbag system will generate a fault code, and it will then be necessary to take the Phaeton to the dealer to have the fault code cleared. But, if the ignition is off, the airbag system will not notice that you have removed and replaced the connector.

Michael

The yellow connector is an occupant protection system connector (disregard the red arrow in this picture)
It is not related to the paddle shifters, but needs to be removed and replaced to enable the paddle shifter connector to be clipped onto the J527


Modified by PanEuropean at 10:07 PM 8-15-2008

When you go to your VW dealer to get this, the key information that the parts person will need is contained in the header line across the top of the page. The connector you want is number 4. It's hard to read the text in this scan, but if you look a bit higher up on this thread, you will see an enlargement of this page in the background of one of the other pictures.

The information in the far right column of this page tells you what the part number of the repair wire is. So, there is quite a bit of good information contained on this parts catalog page.

Michael

North American Parts Catalog listing for the connector that goes into the paddle shifter assembly


Modified by PanEuropean at 10:08 PM 8-15-2008

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

...and has no more than 17 pretty coloured wires running into it.

There are several other 17 pin plugs running to that area of the dash but they are other colors. I'll bet it won't be that hard to find it.

TOUAREG HOW TO INFO: MP3, XM, CELL or VIDEO, KEYLESS START, PADDLE SHIFT.

T17a, colored gray,
T17b, colored black also,
T17d, colored white,
T17e, colored blue,
T17f, colored green
T17g, colored red,

These T17s are all in the same general area behind the dash/instrument panel and to the left.

But, there is no information in the North American documentation (either the repair manual that Phaeton owners can buy, or the VESIS system that the VW dealers use) that identifies the exact location of these connectors.

I have made a further inquiry, hopefully some information will come back later this week. I really don't want to go digging around looking for that connector. If all else fails, I can trace a few other wires that run to T17c from the 'T16f' connector on the J527 steering wheel electronics controller, but I really don't want go down that path - physically tracing wires on a vehicle of this complexity won't be fun, I am sure of that.

Michael

Unless you cannot physically get into this section of the dash, I would think it would be easy to find. I will send you the PDF of the parts page.

TOUAREG HOW TO INFO: MP3, XM, CELL or VIDEO, KEYLESS START, PADDLE SHIFT.

Art mentioned that there was a second black 17 pin connector (T17b), from the information on the parts diagram, it looks like that second black connector is part number 27, an air conditioning connector. Hopefully it will be well away from T17c. In any case, I have a pretty complete description of what colour wires come out of what pins on T17c (this from Phaeton wiring diagram 23, which is the Steering Wheel wiring diagram) - I can confirm that T17c is, in fact, c and not b by comparing wire colours at the connector.

Again, thanks a lot! This is a great help.

Michael

Phaeton Wiring Harness
Could T17c be part number 29?
(photo lost, sorry)

Modified by PanEuropean at 10:09 PM 8-15-2008

While you do the research for the proper connector for your transmission, can you also look for the connector for the 6 speed transmission, as I understand this is the only difference between your car and mine?

Philippe

I think that V8 owners will be in luck here. I don't have the V8 wiring diagram on this computer but Michael sent it to me and from what I recall, it has the same intermediate connectors as the W12. Furthermore, the wiring harness shown above is not differentiated for W12 or V8. So it is my opinion that the V8 has the same plug in the same location as the W12 and V8 owners will be able to install paddle shifters just as easy as W12 owners.

TOUAREG HOW TO INFO: MP3, XM, CELL or VIDEO, KEYLESS START, PADDLE SHIFT.

I agree with Jim's hypothesis, above. If the V8 wiring harness (from the transmission controller to the T17c connector) also includes the two wires for the paddle shifters, then the procedure will be exactly the same for the V8 engine cars.

But - I still don't know if the two wires that I discovered at the big 88 pin connector on the Transmission Control Module (connector T88a) run all the way back to T17c, or if they terminate at the smaller T10ga connector that sits on the top of the transmission control module. It's a pain to gain access to the T10ga connector - this requires disassembly of the Plenum Chamber Cover, removal of the passenger windshield wiper motor, etc. - so, I am going to go looking at T17c first, and hope that the two wires that I found at T88a are continued through T10ga all the way up to T17c.

Michael

Incidentally, you did ascertain that the wiring did run from T88 to T10ga. Did you also ascertain that the proper color wires exited T10ga and therefore to T17c? And is T10ga in the same location on the V8 as the W12?

TOUAREG HOW TO INFO: MP3, XM, CELL or VIDEO, KEYLESS START, PADDLE SHIFT.

This has got to be, without any doubt, the funniest post I have ever made on Vortex.

After postponing the inevitable as long as I could (heck, I cleaned out the garage, washed the car, unloaded the dishwasher, raked the leaves, etc. first), I finally went to the Phaeton and started to look for the T17c connector. I dug out my favorite shop worklight so I could see what I was doing, removed all the panels from around the steering column, and started to trace my way backwards along the wire leading from the 4 way steering column movement switch, as Jim suggested earlier this week.

The first thing I came to - literally, within 5 seconds of starting work - was a little, flat, 5 pin connector, with a blue and brown wire coming out of it, very neatly and carefully taped to one side of the existing wiring harness. I couldn't believe it. After all the disassembly of the plenum, removal of the wiper motor, taking the transmission controller apart, phoning Diane at PCC to ask for help, etc. etc. - I had just discovered that all the required wiring, including the connector, is installed on the Phaeton at the factory. All we need to do if we want to retrofit paddle shifters is - uh, try not to laugh too hard - buy the paddle shifters and plug them in.

Here's some photos that tell the story better. But, there is more written information about how to finish the installation at the bottom, under the photos.

What I found when I looked upward, on the inboard side of the steering column
Every so neatly taped in place, so it won't rattle. Quality at its best.

Here's another view, photo taken from the front passenger seat
You can see the driver door in the background.

After unwrapping the tape that held it in place...

...I just plugged it into the connector on the paddle shifters.

So, from this we now know that it is not necessary to buy the connector described earlier in this thread, or the repair wires, or even open the hood. I am going to guess that this same connector is present on a V8 North American spec Phaeton also - I will have a look at one next weekend, at the Alabama GTG at David's house, to make sure, and post the findings here.

The only parts that you need to get are the paddle shifters themselves, and the two bezels with the second hole in them for the paddle shifter arms. That's it. Total installation time should be in the range of about 30 to 45 minutes, tops.

After plugging the connector in and putting all the cover parts back in place around the steering column, I hooked up my diagnostic scan tool (VAG-COM) and entered the value of 00 in adaptation channel 0 of the Automatic Transmission controller, which is the controller at address 02. I don't know if it was necessary to do this or not - it just made sense to me to reset the controller, so it would look around and see what it was connected to next time it was powered up.

I took the car out for a drive, and everything worked just fine. Note that on the Phaeton, the paddle shifter arms have no effect on the behavior of the car if the big transmission shift lever in the middle of the car is in the D (Drive) position. You can pull on the arms as much as you want to, but nothing happens. I think this makes a lot of sense, because if you inadvertently bump one of the arms, it won't have any effect on the car.

But... if you move the transmission lever to the right - in other words, you put it into the TipTronic position - you can now upshift or downshift as when you want to by pulling on the appropriate arm. The car is smart enough to ignore your request if you ask it do do something stupid, like shift into first gear when you are driving at 60 MPH, or shift into 5th gear when you are stopped at a traffic light. I didn't bother testing to see if it works in the S (Sport) position - I have never used the Sport position anyway.

I'm still laughing about all the work we went to, sourcing that connector, looking for wires, etc. etc. when the darn connector was there all the time, courtesy of the craftspeople in Dresden who built the car.

Michael

Modified by PanEuropean at 10:12 PM 8-15-2008

Paddle Shifter Installation - finally finished.


Modified by PanEuropean at 10:13 PM 8-15-2008

Jim, if you're reading this, I guess you know what my next IM to you will be about. I wish now that I had ordered the parts from you a week or so ago as I would have definitely done this mod this coming weekend.

Michael, I will really enjoy this feature around my town as it is hilly here. I think you will enjoy it more than you think once you try it a bit.

Modified by dcowan699 at 10:30 PM 10-15-2005

2004 Black/Anthracite with European suspension height, paddle shifters, tinting, keyless start. 2007 MB S600 My band's website: http://www.horndogsband.com/

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

I took the car out for a drive, and everything worked just fine. Note that on the Phaeton, the paddle shifter arms have no effect on the behavior of the car if the big transmission shift lever in the middle of the car is in the D (Drive) position. You can pull on the arms as much as you want to, but nothing happens. I think this makes a lot of sense, because if you inadvertently bump one of the arms, it won't have any effect on the car.

David,
Michael's above statement is very surprising. It should work in Drive. That is how it works in the Touareg. I think either he has the wrong coding in the TCM or he has user error.

TOUAREG HOW TO INFO: MP3, XM, CELL or VIDEO, KEYLESS START, PADDLE SHIFT.

2004 Black/Anthracite with European suspension height, paddle shifters, tinting, keyless start. 2007 MB S600 My band's website: http://www.horndogsband.com/

No, it's not surprising at all. The two vehicles are designed for totally different purposes. I think it makes a lot of sense that the paddles are disabled on the Phaeton until you move the selector lever over to the Tiptronic position. This avoids inadvertent activation of the feature.

Next time I am in Europe (about 15 days), I will check and confirm that the European Phaetons that have paddle shifters installed at the factory behave the same way. There is NO CODING DIFFERENCE between Phaetons with and without paddle shifters - this I know for sure, having got it right from the horse's mouth in Fredrichshafen.

Michael

2004 Black/Anthracite with European suspension height, paddle shifters, tinting, keyless start. 2007 MB S600 My band's website: http://www.horndogsband.com/

PS: Is the coding of the 5 speed and 6 speed transmission the same?

TOUAREG HOW TO INFO: MP3, XM, CELL or VIDEO, KEYLESS START, PADDLE SHIFT.

I'll show you how to install them next weekend at the Birmingham, Alabama GTG - October 21 to 23 . It is super-simple. If you have the paddle shifters themselves by then, we can install them, and just use a Dremel tool to make small holes in the two bezels, as a temporary fix until you get the proper bezels.

Total cost of this modification should not be too high - the bezels are about $10 each, I can't remember what the paddle shifter arms cost (the whole thing, both arms and the connector, comes as one piece) - I think about $200, but that is a guess, I can't find the receipt. As we now know, no cable is needed...

Michael