RogueTDI
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 Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions | « » 2:38 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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http://www.greencarcongress.co...ments
Diesel is the engine of the future. Make way for the revolution.The New World Order is REAL and tyranny is upon us. Time is short. Visit infowars.com. END THE FEDERAL RESERVE Our Republic is Falling
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mikeyworks
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (RogueTDI) » | « » 2:45 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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now that is a very compact design!!! A 4 piston design in 2 cylinders...would that be a 4 banger or a 2 banger?Mikey
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PackRat
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (RogueTDI) » | « » 2:47 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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Looks like a maintenance nightmare, lol. 
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juice
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| » | « » 2:48 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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That's a lot of reciprocating mass and friction...interesting tho.
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RogueTDI
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (PackRat) » | « » 2:49 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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Seems like a really smart design. Only thing I never understood about 2 stroke diesels (and perhaps gassers also): without forced induction, would this motor even work? Wouldnt it lack scavenging ability? It's supposed to use an electric turbocharger.
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RogueTDI
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| Re: (juice) » | « » 2:50 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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| Quote, originally posted by juice » | | That's a lot of reciprocating mass and friction...interesting tho. |
Not much more than an inline 4 I'd think. Each of the twin connecting rods for the outer pistons doesnt need to be as thick/strong as a single rod (conventional) design.
Diesel is the engine of the future. Make way for the revolution.The New World Order is REAL and tyranny is upon us. Time is short. Visit infowars.com. END THE FEDERAL RESERVE Our Republic is Falling
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PackRat
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (RogueTDI) » | « » 2:51 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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| Quote, originally posted by RogueTDI » | | Seems like a really smart design. Only thing I never understood about 2 stroke diesels (and perhaps gassers also): without forced induction, would this motor even work? Wouldnt it lack scavenging ability? It's supposed to use an electric turbocharger. |
All it needs to scavenge is pressure just above ambient atmospheric pressure. The old Screaming Jimmy's (Detroit 2 strokes) only got slight boost from their superchargers anyways, just enough to scavenge, which is why the non-turbo engines were considered "naturally aspirated". An electric turbocharger should suffice.
"I never vote for politicians, it only encourages them." - Mark Twain "Instead of haters or trolls, I'm calling you all ex-girlfriends. Because all you do is whine, *****, start fights, and never add anything positive." - Best description ever of the average Car Lounge member. NOTE: Disagreeing with the majority opinion in a given thread is considered trolling in the Car Lounge.
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TabulaVicious
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (RogueTDI) » | « » 2:53 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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I may be mistaken, but didn't WW-II German submarines have OPOC layout diesel engines as well?This would be great if it made it into an affordable production car like a VW Golf. More power. 
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RogueTDI
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (PackRat) » | « » 3:05 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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| Quote, originally posted by PackRat » | All it needs to scavenge is pressure just above ambient atmospheric pressure. The old Screaming Jimmy's (Detroit 2 strokes) only got slight boost from their superchargers anyways, just enough to scavenge, which is why the non-turbo engines were considered "naturally aspirated". An electric turbocharger should suffice. |
But unless the exhaust port opens a fair bit earlier than the intake, wouldnt exhaust (chamber) pressure be significantly higher than atmospheric?
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Sledge
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (RogueTDI) » | « » 3:12 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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RogueTDI
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (RogueTDI) » | « » 5:02 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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What would be the vibrationational character of this engine?
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XenoLlama
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (RogueTDI) » | « » 5:30 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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Now all we need is for someone to totally show this up with a diesel version of the wankel. *drool*
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RogueTDI
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (XenoLlama) » | « » 6:02 PM 5-18-2005 | |
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the one that was posted a few days ago you mean?http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1986498
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (XenoLlama) » | « » 2:26 PM 5-22-2005 | |
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The diesel-Wankel is something I've often wondered about also. It seems, at least to this non-engineer, that the dynamics of a rotary might especially accomodate the compression-ignition concept. One does wonder, however, if it might not be a rather "dirty" powerplant in that the gasoline versions have difficulty with unburned hydrocarbon emissions to this day. It might be the "smokiest" diesel ever made.Maybe I've answered my own question...
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RogueTDI
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (vwlarry) » | « » 2:32 PM 5-22-2005 | |
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I'd guess that it wouldnt be a problem for a diesel version. There are two sources for HC emissions with an SI rotary - oil combustion in the chamber, and incomplete combustion at the edges of the inefficiently shaped chamber. Diesel could be injected in such a way as to limit the spread of fuel to the extremeties of the chamber. Other than lubricating oil getting burned, I dont see a huge problem.
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vwlarry
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (RogueTDI) » | « » 2:46 PM 5-22-2005 | |
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That's funny, I was thinking along the same lines. Today fuel can be introduced into a chamber in any precisely-delineated pattern desired. The pinched-ends of a rotary chamber could thusly probably be kept relatively "clean"Would not some sort of v. high-tech, precisely controlled EGR assist a rotary-diesel as well?
Please read my first published article in the February 2010 Chevy Enthusiast magazine (page 37; "Zora Arkus-Duntov And Five Easy Corvettes"). Link: http://www.amosautomotive.com/ Thanx!“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” - St. Thomas Aquinas
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RogueTDI
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (vwlarry) » | « » 3:33 PM 5-22-2005 | |
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EGR is for NOx reduction purposes, primarily at least.I was just thinking, controlled injection geometry and fuel distribution is possible in SI engines as well - it's just FSI - fuel stratified injection.
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machine1970
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| » | « » 4:11 PM 5-22-2005 | |
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RUNAWAY Fairbanks Morse has been making these for quite some time for use as prime movers on Ships and Trains.http://www.fairbanksmorse.com/...p.htm
Why?
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GoFaster
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (RogueTDI) » | « » 9:45 PM 5-22-2005 | |
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| Quote, originally posted by RogueTDI » | But unless the exhaust port opens a fair bit earlier than the intake, wouldnt exhaust (chamber) pressure be significantly higher than atmospheric? |
That's actually the way modern two-stroke diesels operate. With a Detroit diesel, the exhaust valves (cam-operated in the head) open before the piston uncovers the intake ports and close before the piston closes the intake ports. With FEV's opposed-piston design, the pistons controlling the exhaust ports "lead" the pistons controlling the intake ports, so that the exhaust ports open first and close first. The electric assist to the turbocharger is the key to getting the engine started and running at low speeds. Vibration shouldn't be too bad if the reciprocating mass of the inner and outer pistons is kept comparable (or if heavier mass of the outer pistons and rods is compensated by shorter stroke length). The primary balance won't be 100% perfect due to the above-mentioned phase angle between the intake and exhaust pistons. It would be interesting to see how they handle piston ring lubrication on a piston-ported engine; that's the traditional bugaboo of two-strokes (including the Detroit diesel). It's pretty tough to eliminate chucking at least some of the lube oil out the exhaust ... Regarding the Fairbanks-Morse opposed-piston engine, that is a different design (albeit similar in concept). It uses a crankshaft on either end and the two crankshafts are geared together. The FEV arrangement eliminates the second crankshaft. The opposed-piston concept of two-stroke operation is the same. Given FEV's experience in combustion and emission control research, I doubt if the fuel injection, combustion, and emission control aspects have any similarity at all to the Fairbanks-Norse... Regarding "diesel Wankel": Although technically possible, don't hold your breath. Wankel engines have poor surface-area-to-volume ratio which means high heat losses, which means poorer thermal efficiency. And the combustion chamber is an awkward shape. And that's on top of seal difficulties made even more difficult by the much higher peak pressures in a diesel combustion cycle.
Brian P.
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (GoFaster) » | « » 9:54 PM 5-22-2005 | |
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Thanx muchly for that v. illuminating post. I wondered about sealing difficulty with the higher pressures, and you answered my question.Just as an abstract aside, has anyone besides myself ever looked at the motion of the rotor inside its chamber in a rotary engine, and marvelled at how Dr. Wankel actually was able to visualize such elaborate and convoluted goings-on inside his mind? Amazing.
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| Re: Crazy new 2-stroke diesel engine design - better emissions (vwlarry) » | « » 2:34 AM 5-23-2005 | |
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 It tooke me a while just to visualize the Wankel's operation from PICTURES! That he dreamed that up was pretty brilliant. I'm guessing though that he probably encountered some similar mechanism, then applied the concept to IC engine design.
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