Theyre asking 1450 but I'll ask for about 1100. And that's the other thing--if I say "how about 1100?" and they say no, then what? I'm not experienced with negiotiating...Yes, it's a dealership:thumbdown:.

Notice the rear (a bit hard to see) and the dent in the front.

Big dent.

If they say no, say "how about $1100"
If they still say no, give them your phone number, and tell them to call you if they decide to sell it for $1100, and thats the highest you will pay for it.

THEN, get some friends to go and offer them a little bit lower then you offered. And if your lucky they will call you

I Am The Squirrel: Wrencher of Dubs, Drinker of Boozes, Corruptor of Minds, Breaker of Hearts.

I'm so cool, my taint has internet!!!

I Am The Squirrel: Wrencher of Dubs, Drinker of Boozes, Corruptor of Minds, Breaker of Hearts.

I'm so cool, my taint has internet!!!

haha.

anyway, that thing looks BEAT, beyond banging out some dents. Good luck with the purchase/resto

Quote, originally posted by blueG60rado »

Umm I don't think estimates are negotiable.

Of course they are. Insurance adjusters negotiate w/ body shops all day long. No reason to think customers cannot do the same. You think most shops write fair, accurate estimates?

Oh, and to the OP, find an independent, reputable shop. Dealer body shops are some of the most unorganized, over-priced shops around.

Modified by 2001TurboGTI at 2:26 PM 1-20-2006

Yup!!

I Am The Squirrel: Wrencher of Dubs, Drinker of Boozes, Corruptor of Minds, Breaker of Hearts.

I'm so cool, my taint has internet!!!

Quote, originally posted by blueG60rado »

Umm I don't think estimates are negotiable.

I would ask yourself what you want the car for. If you want the car to be perfect, you'll be looking at paying quite a bit in bodywork and paint costs. You might be better off to buy a strait, low mileage example of the same car. They're not extremely valuable, so you should be able to get one for a good price online. Trust me, I've been there. You pay twice as much to restore it, as you would to buy a nicer example. Being out west, you have a great selection of rust-free cars to choose from.

In my opinion, if that car runs good, the best use for it would be a daily drive as-is.

Modified by jettagli1991 at 10:45 PM 1-20-2006

Of course insurance companies wrangle with body shops. It's because insurance adjusters of are the all singing, all dancing **** of the earth.

So when you go to the dealer to get a timing belt done, do you bargain with service manager?

If you want cheap, go to a cheap shop.

Whats the problem of negotiating when you have a choice?

I would DEFINITELY prefer a dealer bodyshop. Not sure of VW but Benz & BMW require their techs to go to training centers just like their mechs. Some of the most reputable independents will have some sort of deal with local dealerships. That might not be important for bumper resprays but if you need anything more, cars are becoming more specialized. Independents will not have specialized tools for stuff like BMW aluminium structures or Benz composite panels. Independents will most likely not have jig setups to properly repair damaged unibodys. Any welding will require electrical resets, guesss who has them?

On a Body-on-frame car, there's a huge ladder/truss structure to which all of the pieces, including the seperate body, are bolted. The Frame is the load-bearing structure.

Aside from the 1958-1970 Lincolns, 1958-1960 Ford Thunderbird, the Toronado/Eldorado, the step-down Hudsons and the big Nashes of the forties and fifties, and a few Chrysler products from the sixties, nearly all American cars prior to 1980 were body-on frame, including relatively small cars like the Ford Falcon. All full-size, rear-drive GM and Ford products were body-on-frame, including the current Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car, which are the last such cars in Detroit's large inventory of designs.

The first unibody Impala is the one you see on the streets and at the dealers today. The first unibody Malibu debuted in 1997.

Anyway, floor panels are difficult to replace no matter what, but in a body-on-frame car you don't lose much structural integrity by having a panel like that rust out. It's still not good, but it's not as bad as serious rust in a Unibody car where the body is the structure.

Unibodies are more rigid, quieter, and safer, which is why they have spread into nearly-universal use today. But there are two downsides. One is that over the years they can take a beating and the structure can de-form. You hardly ever see that in modern Unibodies, but it happens alot on cars like the Dodge Diplomat and the Austin Allegro. I mention the diplomat because over time these cars tend to deform the front inner fenders and structural members and that can lead to steering and suspension problems. The Allegro always had a weak shell and if you jacked it up in the wrong place, the windsheild might pop out.

The other is that unibodies are very vulnerable if they become rusty. Because the whole thing is one structure, rust will immolate that structure and cause serious problems that might very well make the car unsafe to ride in. This was common in the early days of unibodies when there wasn't much in the way of rust protection. Stress cracks from decades of wear would also make the problem worse - as if the metal itself wasn't vulnerable, it would be even more open to corrosion in structurally-stressed areas. Cars like the Citroën DS were considered indestructible, unless tinworm got into the unibody structure, at which point the car was almost always considered unsalvageable because of the complicated constructuion of that particular unibody.

Body-on-Frame cars have some advantages and disadvantages too - and they're the inverse of those of Unibody cars.

A body-on-frame car will flex, allowing the body and the frame to withstand much more fatigue than most unibodies. Trucks are all body-on-frame, because they need to flex under heavy loads to avoid stress points cracks that would develop in a unibody. The result is that a body-on-frame car will rarely decay from fatigue, but it flexes and makes alot of noise, and it isn't nearly as rigid as even a featherweight unibody.

On the other hand, if the body of a body-on-frame car rusts, it can be easily repaired and the rust is rarely structural in nature. That does not mean that if you drive a seriously rusty body-on-frame car that its' safer than a rusty unibody - you're still taking a chance - but it does mean that it's easier to repair and the structure is much simpler. It also means that you can swap bodies. In the thirties manufacturers used to offer a dozen bodies on a common chassis. The body-on-frame makes the addition and subtraction of bodystyles much easier than if you had to tool up for unibody cars. A body-on-frame convertible is also usually not much less rigid than a body-on-frame coupe - because it isn't the body that bears the load.

The achilles heel of any body-on-frame car is frame rot. If that happens, it's time to chuck he thing, unless it's something so valuable that you can justify replacing the frame. Taxicabs of the Crown Victoria and Caprice variety usually swap frames at some point in their lives, the frames wear out with heavy urban use, and they make replacement frames for these cars. But under normal circumstances replacing the frame is essentially a start-from-scratch restoration project kind of thing that you'd never want to get into for a '66 Impala 327 sedan. Only for a numbers-matching 427 would that be of any value.