Goodspeedperformance
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tempe az
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 How to read a MAHA dyno sheet | « » 4:56 AM 8-4-2008 | |
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 First thing we learned about using the MaHa lps 3000
Is… forgetting everything you learned about all other wheel power calculating dynos. This is what we had to do, Joe and I have been using other dynos for years to tune and test cars and we put up some resistance at first until we unlearned what we had gotten so used to. Other dynos can only give you wheel power #s. and this is ok if all your going to do Is look for the gain from a modification compared to stock, and you don’t need or care to know what the real power is. The wheel numbers are completely arbitrary. One of the most common miscalculations in determining horse power was guessing the drive train loss.
Most people think that there car has a certain percentage of drive train loss, in fact drive train loss is not one set percentage its multiplication, the most common example is a person that has had there car dynoed at a shop with a DynoDynamics or a Dynojet or other simalar, will say something like… my car dynoed at 280 whp and the dyno operator told me my car is approximately 25% drive train loss, so my car must have 350hp at the crank.
First question we usually ask is At what RPM. if your peak HP is at 5000 RPM then you drive train loss is much less than it is at 7000RPM so for example lets say your drive train loss is 65 hp at 5000 rpm and it is 80 at 7000RPM then you have to know what the loss is at the exact RPM that you are making your max HP, or your #s are again completely arbitrary. And with all the different wheels brakes, light weight drive lines, even tires,,.. with out the ability to dyno you driveling you have no way of knowing what your real Hp # is.
This is why we have no question about high or low reading dyno we can always throw a stock car on and compare it to the factory SAE #s
A stock e46 M3 will put between 332 and 334 crank horse power on the MaHa dyno all day, factory #s 333.0 Hp, YES its that accurate. So we have a sheet to use for example
And I must say for anyone that was wandering if APRs # s are true we can say for certain YES.
This is a 2.0 with APRs software installed
http://www.goodspeedperformanc...b.JPG take a look at the sheet. we tryed to make it clear. Modified by Goodspeedperformance at 1:58 AM 8-4-2008
Modified by Goodspeedperformance at 2:00 AM 8-4-2008
Modified by joe@vwvortex at 11:39 AM 8-4-2008
GOOSPEEDPERFORMANCE.COM
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gtiiiiiiii
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2006 GTI * 1986 Porsche 951
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| Re: How to read a MAHA dyno sheet (Goodspeedperformance) » | « » 9:22 PM 8-4-2008 | |
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Good stuff 
-Drew
MKV GTI APR K04
14.5@96 Stock | 13.7@102 APR stg II
1986 951 T04E 50 trim
2002 A4 3.0q stock
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Goodspeedperformance
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tempe az
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| Re: How to read a MAHA dyno sheet (gtiiiiiiii) » | « » 2:04 AM 8-5-2008 | |
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I’m glad, i am not always the best at explaining things, and I just hope it was clear. Thanks!
Jon 
GOOSPEEDPERFORMANCE.COM
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T13R
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'95 Golf CL / '07 GTi 4dr
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| Re: How to read a MAHA dyno sheet (Goodspeedperformance) » | « » 10:50 PM 8-5-2008 | |
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That was a really good explanation. It's interesting to see how whp decreases more and more compared to crank hp as the RPMs go up, it's not a constant at all...
Unitronic Chipped Stage 2 | APR DP | BSH True Seal Intake, Engine and Transmission mounts, Stage2+ PCV fix | BFI Torque Arm Insert | ClutchMasters FX300 Kit
Waiting to be installed: APR HPFP, Verdict Motorsport and 42DD shifter bushingsDyno Stage 1+ (no bolt-ons) vs Stock: +33whp +49wtq</FONT>
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Goodspeedperformance
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tempe az
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| Re: How to read a MAHA dyno sheet (T13R) » | « » 3:48 AM 8-6-2008 | |
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We always knew that drive train loss increased with rpm but we didn’t realize it was on such a curve and the difference from one model to another is surprising. It’s also nice to see the difference between a AWD and 2WD for losses. On the MAHA you can actually watch the drive train being calculated just like you would watch the horse power line It just runs from right to left and on all wheel drive cars you get to watch 2 lines one for the front and one for the rear, then it adds the front and rear together to calculate your total drive train loss at all rpm. This really helps us with diagnostics as well as tuning. Center diff going bad? This should let us know.
We can also shift tractive effort from front to rear, other dynos such as the DynoDynamics can give you a general reading of tractive effort, but we can actual control it, what dose this mean, well any one that has a R32 or a TT will most likely find that on most dynos you have a stumble where the Halidex is trying to transfer power front to rear ( some shops just unplug the unit and run it in FWD) some times you can get a full pull but even if you do a sloppy power line is the result and it makes it almost impossible to see a accurate power result, not to mention its murder on you cars drivetrain. Well thanks to Audi this is not a problem (and no the rollers are not connected) Audi needed a way to test there new AWD systems a few years and in early development they contracted MAHA to develop a way to combat this issue when dyno testing was needed, MAHA did there homework and the result trickled down to the LPS3000. This is one of the benefits of having a dynamometer from the same manufacture that provides dynos and test equipment for most of the major manufactures, Audi/Volkswagen, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari, and on and on all have MaHa dynos in there facilities chances are if you have a car out of Germany it already been on a MAHA. In short the dynos software allows us run a primarily front wheel drive car with rear wheel drive assist by changing effort from rear to front, and this also works for AWD Porches that are primarily rear drive with front assist, by transferring front to rear. That goes the same for skylines especially the R34 where the front diff can’t ever fully disengage. And most other vehicles with computer controlled drivelines. ,, WOW didn’t mean to ramble on like that.
Later>
Jon@
GoodSpeed Performance Modified by Goodspeedperformance at 12:49 AM 8-6-2008
Modified by Goodspeedperformance at 8:17 PM 8-6-2008
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Goodspeedperformance
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| Re: How to read a MAHA dyno sheet (T13R) » | « » 4:00 AM 8-6-2008 | |
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[IMG][/IMG]   R32 on Maha Dyno @ Goodspeed Performance Lab
Modified by Goodspeedperformance at 7:57 PM 10-24-2008
GOOSPEEDPERFORMANCE.COM
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anguishxiii
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07 Fahrenheit #545 GTI - GO APR!
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| Re: How to read a MAHA dyno sheet (Goodspeedperformance) » | « » 1:54 PM 8-6-2008 | |
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| Quote, originally posted by Goodspeedperformance » | We always new that drive train loss increased with rpm but we didn’t realize it was on such a curve and the difference from one model to another is surprising. It’s also nice to see the difference between a AWD and 2WD for losses. On the MAHA you can actually watch the drive train being calculated just like you would watch the horse power line It just runs from right to left and on all wheel drive cars you get to watch 2 lines one for the front and one for the rear, then it adds the front and rear together to calculate your total drive train loss at all rpm. This really helps us with diagnostics as well as tuning. Center diff going bad? This should let us know.
We can also shift tractive effort from front to rear, other dynos such as the DynoDynamics can give you a general reading of tractive effort, but we can actual control it, what dose this mean, well any one that has a R32 or a TT will most likely find that on most dynos you have a stumble where the Halidex is trying to transfer power front to rear ( some shops just unplug the unit and run it in FWD) some times you can get a full pull but even if you do a sloppy power line is the result and it makes it almost imposable to see a accurate power result, not to mention its murder on you cars driveline. Well thanks to Audi this is not a problem (and no the rollers are not connected) Audi needed a way to test there new AWD systems a few years and in early development they contracted MAHA to develop a way to combat this issue when dyno testing was needed, MAHA did there homework and the result trickled down to the LPS3000. This is one of the benefits of having a dynamometer from the same manufacture that provides dynos and test equipment for most of the major manufactures, Audi/Volkswagen, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari, and on and on all have MaHa dynos in there facilities chances are if you have a car out of Germany it already been on a MAHA. In short the dynos software allows us run a primarily front wheel drive car with rear wheel drive assist by changing effort from rear to front, and this also works for AWD Porches that are primarily rear drive with front assist, by transferring front to rear. That goes the same for skylines especially the R34 where the front diff can’t ever fully disengage. And most other vehicles with computer controlled drivelines. ,, WOW didn’t mean to ramble on like that.
Later>
Jon@
GoodSpeed Performance
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not a ramble, very good info.
| Quote, originally posted by Arin@APR » | | It's kinda like a fat guy running vs walking. He may be able to walk around all day just fine, fat, and dandy but as soon as he starts running he throws up. If he was healthy and thin to begin with, he could run around all day and not throw up, but since he's out of shape and is now pushing it, he's puking all over the place ... or not really like that at all. |
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gtiiiiiiii
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| Re: How to read a MAHA dyno sheet (anguishxiii) » | « » 3:37 PM 8-10-2008 | |
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| Quote, originally posted by anguishxiii » | not a ramble, very good info. |
x2
-Drew
MKV GTI APR K04
14.5@96 Stock | 13.7@102 APR stg II
1986 951 T04E 50 trim
2002 A4 3.0q stock
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NEW2B
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09 GTI /06 2.0T B6
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| Re: How to read a MAHA dyno sheet (Goodspeedperformance) » | « » 4:01 PM 8-10-2008 | |
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06 auto passat ,apr sII/cai on maha 260 hp
[IMG] [/IMG][IMG] [/IMG]
2009 GTI - APR 93 STAGE I - INTAKE -14.0 @ 101MPH 2006 PASSAT-AUTO - 14.3 @96MPH-260HP
APR 93 STAGE II - APR TBE - INTAKE - NS PULLEY - NS GAUGE
EJ PCV FIX - 18" ACE DIMENSION-TOYO PROXES4
DRIVEGEAR SPRINGS - 35% TINT.
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Goodspeedperformance
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tempe az
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| » | « » 4:37 PM 8-10-2008 | |
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FYI we are having an Audi dyno night for Audi club on Saturday August 16th, starts at 5pm. should be fun and give us some good data.
All are invited but Audis run front.
GOOSPEEDPERFORMANCE.COM
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terje_77
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2009 Audi TT 2.0T S-Line
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| Re: (Goodspeedperformance) » | « » 8:26 PM 8-10-2008 | |
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Thanks for the knowledge.
APR | H&R | Milltek
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Goodspeedperformance
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tempe az
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| Re: (terje_77) » | « » 11:09 PM 10-24-2008 | |
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this is a example of the drive train being dynoed in action, you can even see the difference in the loss front to rear.
 cool to wach in real time! Jon
GOOSPEEDPERFORMANCE.COM
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