Wow- that looks like a great group and a cool event.
The part at the end made me tear up a bit.

Quote, originally posted by Shomegrown »

I've always wanted to do one of these events in the US but the ridiculous safety requirements keep daily drivers out of it.

Quote, originally posted by ZoomBy »

dont worry about it, the people who take spelling that seriously over the internet are the ones who really have a prolem

I disagree. These events are held all over the world without the over-the-top safety stuff. I know people that attend them regularly in the UK and I know they do them all the time in Scandinavia too.

There's yet to be an incident.

On the other hand, the EU events are done with street legal cars, not rattletrap homebuilt hotrods which may or may not be done right.

http://www.vimeo.com/2344737

There's an example.

Requiring a roll cage to go over 135 MPH is ridiculous. When I lived in Germany, there wasn't a day that went by without seeing a BMW/Audi/Mercedes wagon going 135+ mph on their daily commute. OMG DEATH!

Quote, originally posted by Shomegrown »

I've always wanted to do one of these events in the US but the ridiculous safety requirements keep daily drivers out of it.

Well, safety is (or should be) the first priority in any private club event for obvious legal reasons. One death or serious injury could completely eliminate future access to privately owned locations needed to run the events. That's just the way things work. In effect- this type of event is just a one mile long drag strip, and probably uses all the same rules for drag racing based on top speed.

Quote, originally posted by Shomegrown »

I disagree. These events are held all over the world without the over-the-top safety stuff. I know people that attend them regularly in the UK and I know they do them all the time in Scandinavia too. There's yet to be an incident.

Yet.

But it's best to plan for the worst, instead of just covering your eyes and hoping for the best.

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On the other hand, the EU events are done with street legal cars, not rattletrap homebuilt hotrods which may or may not be done right. http://www.vimeo.com/2344737 There's an example. Requiring a roll cage to go over 135 MPH is ridiculous. When I lived in Germany, there wasn't a day that went by without seeing a BMW/Audi/Mercedes wagon going 135+ mph on their daily commute. OMG DEATH!

Please post some 135mph+ Autobahn crash scenes. I didn't realize production cars were actually designed to offer crash protection at those speeds.

And again- it's all due to the liability concerns here, and that a single death or serious injury would shut down that event for good.

Reading about the the Maxton Mile- it seems the club members have spent A LOT of time and money making that old runway usable for this event. I think it's extremely selfish to say they should risk their investment in this venue to allow less prepared and less serious drivers to run the track.


Modified by BRealistic at 2:26 PM 10/4/2009

Yet statistics show that the higher speeds don't increase the fatality rate.

You stuff your car at those speeds, you're going to need more than a cage to save you.

People greatly exaggerate the danger of driving fast in controlled conditions. The consequences are more severe, but the actual danger doesn't increase that much.

Quote, originally posted by BRealistic »

And again- it's all due to the liability concerns here, and that a single death or serious injury would shut down that event for good. Modified by BRealistic at 2:24 PM 10/4/2009

Which shows the sad state of our legal system.

If I do or do not have a cage in my car effects no one except myself.

I'll respond to your edited point here.

I can assure you that my aerodyamic car which has been tested to 155+ mph by Audi with 6 airbags and ABS and stability control is far safer at speed than billy bob's big engine 1930's hotrod despite the fact he has a cage in it. MANY of the cars in those events are flying barndoors which were never intended to reach those kinds of speeds.

I didn't realize we had such statistics as real world data would be hard to gather and process due to all the variables. But higher impact forces should equal higher G forces to the occupants, which should be more deadly. But again- there ar so many variables ina crash scene- if you go flying off the road at 50mph and hit a tree going sideways, you are in much worse shape than driving off the road at 100mph into a flat open field.

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You stuff your car at those speeds, you're going to need more than a cage to save you.

The cage helps. Note that modern cars are designed to crush to less the impact forces the occupants feel- which is exactly the opposite to how racing cvars are designed to perform in crashes. I can see why racing organizers are concerned about that.

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People greatly exaggerate the danger of driving fast in controlled conditions. The consequences are more severe, but the actual danger doesn't increase that much.

The problem isn't the speed, it's what you can hit. This event is held on an old airport runway. There are no guardrails to keep an out of control vehicle on track, which means things could get ugly.

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Which shows the sad state of our legal system. If I do or do not have a cage in my car effects no one except myself.

Having the right to sue is not a bad thing. I'm sure the German families affected by the Eschede train disaster would have loved to be able to have their cases tried in the US since the German system does not allow lawsuits againt a company even if the evidence shows the company was obviously at fault and obviously wrong.

And don't get me wrong- I am no expert on crash safety or even what regulations these events require. But it's a private organization running a vehicle speed event on private property. They have the right to set the rules.

Modified by BRealistic at 2:43 PM 10/4/2009

Sorry- my proofreading skills are terrible. And my internet connection keeps logging me off and on today (for some reason- dang dsl).

But these drivers are strapped in with harnesses and wearing helmets. Airbags are to protect non racing helmet wearing non racing harness confined drivers. And when strapped in with a helmet, the only safety issue is keeping the driver protected by keeping the vehicle around them intact- which is what the cage is for.

But opinions with obviously vary.

If this bothers you so much- and there are a significant number of people interested in this type and even that share your opinion- why not start your own open speed club for anybody?

Sure! Amery Airport Top Speed Trial, it's run on a 1/3 mile taxiway. Registration is open to anybody and the top speed at that event is held by a 1991 Audi 90 20vT @ 146mph. The Top Speed trial is held 2 to 3 times every summer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVxK_5v9gjo

You missed the point, a modern vehicle which was designed in a wind tunnel with ABS and stability control is less likely to have an accident at speed to begin with.

I don't know if you've evern driven a vintage car at speed, but it can be downright scary.

Your comparison with the ICE train wreck doesn't apply IMO. If I run my car at speed, it's MY car and I'm personally responsible to ensure it's safe to do so. If I crash and kill myself due to a mechanical defect in the car, it's not the fault of the venue holder's (unless their negligence caused the wreck.)

Your comparison would make sense if I sold tickets for people to ride shotgun in my car, then I crashed and killed them.

And I have entertained the idea of holding some sort of event on an abandoned airstrip. Unfortunately, those aren't exactly easy to come by.

Those safety devices won't stop a vehicle from losing control if it has a mechanical or tire failure at speed (like what happened to that unfortunate auto journalist in the AMG on a closed track many years ago. A safety cage might have saved his life). But sure- a modern performance car should be very stable at speed.

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I don't know if you've evern driven a vintage car at speed, but it can be downright scary.

I sure hope nobody is driving a stock vintage car with only power upgrades to 150mph+ speeds. Are they allowed to do that?

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Your comparison with the ICE train wreck doesn't apply IMO. If I run my car at speed, it's MY car and I'm personally responsible to ensure it's safe to do so. If I crash and kill myself due to a mechanical defect in the car, it's not the fault of the venue holder's (unless their negligence caused the wreck.) Your comparison would make sense if I sold tickets for people to ride shotgun in my car, then I crashed and killed them.

Actually- I brought that up to show how government mandated lawsuit limitations can actually hurt the victims.

And regardless of what happens to you or what waivers you sign- you surviving family can always sue if they can reasonable support negligence on the part of the event organizers or property owner. And lackadaisical safety regulations might support that lawsuit.

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And I have entertained the idea of holding some sort of event on an abandoned airstrip. Unfortunately, those aren't exactly easy to come by.

Yep- which is why they are being (somewhat) protective of the strip they have access to.

Modified by BRealistic at 3:18 PM 10/4/2009

That's once again a different story. Don Schroeder's unfortunate death was on a banked oval, which puts a TON of stress on the outside tires/suspension. That can even take it's toll on race cars - remember the Indy F1 debacle?

Straight line driving on a groomed high traction surface is as safe as it gets. Sure, there's always a chance of a problem, but it's very very low IMO. I say that as someone who has thousands of miles at 100+ mph speeds in modern cars.

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I sure hope nobody is driving a stock vintage car with only power upgrades to 150mph+ speeds. Are they allowed to do that?

Well, looking at the hot rod in the video, it's still shaped like a hot rod. You can make some changes, but it's still "band aids" on a shape that was never intended to go fast.

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Actually- I brought that up to show how government mandated lawsuit limitations can actually hurt the victims. And regardless of what happens to you or what waivers you sign- you surviving family can always sue if they can reasonable support negligence on the part of the event organizers or property owner. And lackadaisical safety regulations might support that lawsuit. Modified by BRealistic at 3:18 PM 10/4/2009

I don't disagree with what you're saying. I don't disagree for them not allowing stock cars to go fast. I disagree with the lawsuit crazy atmosphere we have. I disagree with Ben Keaton's wife suing everyone under the sun after her husband crashed his Carrera GT.

What I'm saying goes in the "common sense" side of things. Obviously not all cars on the street would be safe going balls out, so that would open up a whole new door of challenges.

Many here care capable of civil conversation without name calling or getting out of hand. B is certainly one of them.

It's only a few bad apples who ruin it for everyone.